Birds of Prey BoP Box Office Thread

[-JKR-]

And to shoot down any incoming narrative about "huge studio meddling," this is what was changed from the very first test screenings:

The only difference the fall screening had was the second and third act had different action sequences. The police station attack was changed, and a scene of Harley and Cass being attacked in a warehouse was added. The third act changes were Huntress being added to the car chase at the end where she helps Harley catch up to the convoy on her motorcycle. Those were the only main changes in the fall screening and it was still positively received lol. Also the dick pics thing was swapped but it was never a major plot point, just a gag at the end.

From a source on Reddit who attended both test screenings (and got the plot 100% right three months ago, so reliable).

 

[Greenlite]

And to shoot down any incoming narrative about "huge studio meddling," this is what was changed from the very first test screenings:



From a source on Reddit who attended both test screenings (and got the plot 100% right three months ago, so reliable).

So....Deadline was lying or given false info? ha

 

[-JKR-]

Walter Hamada probably did contribute to bringing the movie to where it is now by bringing in Stahelski to improve the action and maybe pacing and other minor issues basically any work in progress movie has or can have, but the movie wasn't "completely reshaped" at all.

 

[Kuwolski]

And to shoot down any incoming narrative about "huge studio meddling," this is what was changed from the very first test screenings:



From a source on Reddit who attended both test screenings (and got the plot 100% right three months ago, so reliable).

True, meddling is a bad choice of discription, more studio business as usual

Still better then "mansplaining" as the tweet suggested.

 

[writer0327]

 

[Kuwolski]

View attachment 31675

The box office mystery is solved.

 

[jmc]

It's very easy to play Monday morning quarterback on this especially when the film got fairly good reviews.

That said, I think it didn't need to be a Birds of Prey movie. The Birds of Prey are relatively pointless in this film and undercooked. This is really Harley Quinn's movie. So calling it Birds of Prey was nuts.

You can't say to me because FEMINISM and BECAUSE WOKE. People were beating those same drums before Captain Marvel came out wanting that film to fail and it still made over $1 billion and over $400 million domestic.

I think they should've maybe waited until Valentine's Day to release this.

I will say this. I've never been fond of "superhero" Harley Quinn. I get wanting to make her a bigger character and more than just Joker's girlfriend. But trying to elevate her as this heroic superhero is kind of wrong to me. It's sort of like turning Venom into a hero. Doesn't really work or make sense.

But the push into making her a hero just because she's popular and because Joker abused her doesn't really work IMO.

You now what the true result of Harley leaving the Joker would be? Her returning to being her old self. I’ve long maintained Harley is one of the few Batman villains that with the right mental treatment could live a relatively normal life. Her being Harleen again is the natural conclusion. The problem is you can’t sell Dr Quinzell merch, so what do they do? Keep the craziness, turn her into essentially Deadpool, make her this weird anti-hero which as you say doesn’t really work.

 

[writer0327]

The box office mystery is solved.

Since when has a rated R movie's primary audience been teenage boys, I would've thought the 18-35 demographic was what they were aiming for?

 

[-JKR-]

You now what the true result of Harley leaving the Joker would be? Her returning to being her old self. I’ve long maintained Harley is one of the few Batman villains that with the right mental treatment could live a relatively normal life. Her being Harleen again is the natural conclusion. The problem is you can’t sell Dr Quinzell merch, so what do they do? Keep the craziness, turn her into essentially Deadpool, make her this weird anti-hero which as you say doesn’t really work.

Not really. It's not like people are automatically their old self after they split up with their BF/GF. That's a pretty simplistic view on human psychology and behaviour.

 

[Sithborg]

You now what the true result of Harley leaving the Joker would be? Her returning to being her old self. I’ve long maintained Harley is one of the few Batman villains that with the right mental treatment could live a relatively normal life. Her being Harleen again is the natural conclusion. The problem is you can’t sell Dr Quinzell merch, so what do they do? Keep the craziness, turn her into essentially Deadpool, make her this weird anti-hero which as you say doesn’t really work.

Except, as the movie showed, it works quite well.

 

[Invader Joker]

I've always thought that making Harley this badass super fighter was dumb, I know that's how it is in the comics but there I also feel it's dumb.
She was a psychiatrist for god's sake, so she goes crazy and she can suddenly beat a bunch of SWAT officers, goons and is an expert fighter? Where the hell did she learn that? Is taking some self-defense classes in between your super regular life suddenly gonna make you a super badass? lol
And I know it's fiction and whatever but even then I kinda prefer things to at least have some sort of logic or standard, this doesn't make any sense at all. It's like what Tom King did with Selina, making her somehow beat Talia in a swordfight.

 

[jmc]

Not really. It's not like people are automatically their old self after they split up with their BF/GF. That's a pretty simplistic view on human psychology and behaviour.

To some degree it is simplistic, but it is one of the most logical paths creatively. As I said, the problem if you go that path, write the character getting the mental and medical treatment she needs, is that you throw out all that merchandise you're selling. If you have her abandon the HQ persona that's god knows how many millions of dollars lost. So you end up in this situation where you try and keep the HQ persona whilst trying to separate her from the very person who created that persona. It's never made a lick of sense to me. Harley Quinn, the persona, the look, the name, is and always will be tied to the Joker. She's always going to be the Jokers girlfriend. The real separation is when she abandons the name and costume entirely and reverts to her old self of Harleen Quinzell, or takes up a new identity entirely. Instead, the last few years has been this weird compromise because DC know the character is too valuable.

 

[-JKR-]

The point, though, is that her becoming Harley Quinn probably had something to do with her herself being attracted to that kind of persona, so why should she let go of something that she has been for years just because she split up with the Joker.

Just to make an example, through your BF/GF you find a hobby you really like, doesn't mean you'll stop doing it just because you've split up when you genuinely like the hobby.

As much as she was dominated by the Joker, I think that Harleen genuinely loves been Harley, and that deep down she long wanted to be released from her previous persona when she was "just" a psychologist.

 

[Fincher]

View attachment 31675

I think he could be right that teen boys go to superhero movies for special effects/spectacle/eye candy, although he comes across as a patronizing d*** about it.

Personally, I thought the movie looked good, but I will acknowledge that they didn't sell the humor all that well. In one TV spot, Huntress says something about liking how high Dinah can kick in her tight pants, and I thought that was a dumb, awkward line. In hindsight, that's the whole "Huntress is socially awkward aspect", but her character was never explained in the marketing, so it's just a kind of cringy line. The hunky Bruce Wayne thing wasn't funny, either. It may be a hilarious movie, but it's not really demonstrating it that I can think of. Otherwise, it doesn't look like a particularly emotional or dramatic film. Is it meaningful? Well, the marketing touches on Harley becoming her own woman, but it shouldn't be any surprise that that would resonate more with female audiences.

So you've got a spirited, outlandish, stylized, maybe irreverent action movie. That sounds like a visceral/aesthetic sort of moviegoing experience, just a different sort than superpowered heroes flying around and blowing stuff up. If that particular cocktail doesn't draw in enough of the male audience, well, then it doesn't.

 

[jmc]

The point, though, is that her becoming Harley Quinn probably had something to do with her herself being attracted to that kind of persona, so why should she let go of something that she has been for years just because she split up with the Joker.

Just to make an example, through your BF/GF you find a hobby you really like, doesn't mean you'll stop doing it just because you've split up when you genuinely like the hobby.

As much as she was dominated by the Joker, I think that Harleen genuinely loves been Harley, and that deep down she long wanted to be released from her previous persona when she was "just" a psychologist.

I don't know if buy that idea, because it essentially means that Harleen always had a choice in the matter all along, that all she was doing was repressing the evil side to her. That to me takes away the tragedy of her situation, that she's was lulled into a false sense of worth from a guy who never gave a **** about her, everything she had set up for herself career wise thrown away because someone saw a way to exploit her weaknesses and corrupt her into doing as he pleases. When you go with the whole 'repressed identity' thing, what you're saying is that she was willing to go along with the Joker and do bad things because she wanted to. That changes the character entirely, and not for the better.

 

[terry78]

And they're jumping all over it.

 

[samsnee]

I don’t think he’s wrong. If they didn’t want to over sexualize her, which I think was the way to go, they should have sold this as PG-13 girl power movie.

 

[Invader Joker]

I don't know if buy that idea, because it essentially means that Harleen always had a choice in the matter all along, that all she was doing was repressing the evil side to her. That to me takes away the tragedy of her situation, that she's was lulled into a false sense of worth from a guy who never gave a **** about her, everything she had set up for herself career wise thrown away because someone saw a way to exploit her weaknesses and corrupt her into doing as he pleases. When you go with the whole 'repressed identity' thing, what you're saying is that she was willing to go along with the Joker and do bad things because she wanted to. That changes the character entirely, and not for the better.

My take on Harley is that she fell in love with a psychopath that she KNEW was a psychopath.
Sure, Joker could've given her all this sympathetic BS, but Harley knew Joker was a murderer, she knew he had no qualms about torturing people. And she actively decided to join him in his plans, while he's out there planning to kill Batman, she's actively helping him. She's constantly helps him in his ****ed up plans without showing any sort of hesitation about it.That's the way it's been shown in the DCAU, that's the way it's been shown in the Arkham games, that's the way it's been shown in the comics. The only version where this isn't the case is the Sean Murphy version.
I've never really been able to see her as just a victim, because I honestly feel she isn't. You can empathize with her the same way you can with other villains, but she really a terrible person, much like Riddler, or Scarecrow, or Black Mask, etc.

And I feel there's something legitimately interesting there as a character, but when shown in this over the top wacky ways in which she's a lead and this super fighter even though that makes no sense whatsoever I feel it takes away more than it adds. I'd much prefer to read or watch a much more grounded version of Harley that's more critical of her but is still sympathetic to an extent.

 

[terry78]

I mean I'll be for real, if I was a teenage boy and there was an r-rated movie starring all women I probably expect some nudity at the least. Today's teenage dudes or 20 something dudes are not as woke as we think.

 

[brandeezy89]

And they're jumping all over it.

"Asian Trump Fan"

.......

 

[Boom]

I'll be seeing this sometime next weekend (couldn't make time for it this weekend), but the numbers are disappointed. You win some, you lose some.

 

[terry78]

My take on Harley is that she fell in love with a psychopath that she KNEW was a psychopath.
Sure, Joker could've given her all this sympathetic BS, but Harley knew Joker was a murderer, she knew he had no qualms about torturing people. And she actively decided to join him in his plans, while he's out there planning to kill Batman, she's actively helping him. The only version where this isn't the case is the Sean Murphy version.
I've never really been able to see her as just a victim, because I honestly feel she isn't. You can empathize with her the same way you can with other villains, but she really is kind of a terrible person.

And I feel there's something legitimately interesting there as a character, but when shown in this over the top wacky ways in which she's a lead and this super fighter even though that makes no sense whatsoever I feel it takes away more than it adds. I'd much prefer to read or watch a much more grounded version of Harley that's more critical of her but is still sympathetic to an extent.

That is the one thing I always raised an eyebrow at regarding how people idolized her when she was an accessory to mass murder repeatedly.

 

[TheVileOne]

You now what the true result of Harley leaving the Joker would be? Her returning to being her old self. I’ve long maintained Harley is one of the few Batman villains that with the right mental treatment could live a relatively normal life. Her being Harleen again is the natural conclusion. The problem is you can’t sell Dr Quinzell merch, so what do they do? Keep the craziness, turn her into essentially Deadpool, make her this weird anti-hero which as you say doesn’t really work.

Not necessarily.

 

[jmc]

The get woke thing is an overly simplistic interpretation of what's happening. What's really happening is films are being greenlit for an audience that doesn't actually exist. Star Wars is a perfect example of this, in an attempt to 'expand' the audience and move beyond the fanbase who kept the thing alive for 40 years, what ended up happening is they didn't actually expand on anything and if anything lost more than they gained. There is no new audience for something like Star Wars, you cannot force the demographic to change no matter how much you might want it to. Sometimes things just attract more men than women and vice versa, and that's fine. I understand where that desire to change comes from, but just because you think what you're creating should be appealing doesn't mean it's what people want.

 

[Invader Joker]

That is the one thing I always raised an eyebrow at regarding how people idolized her when she was an accessory to mass murder repeatedly.

She's a terrible person, pretty much as terrible as any other Batman villain. She's as tragic and ****ed up and evil as any other Batman villain, but she's also sort-of a victim... sort-of.
And to me that could be very very interesting to explore, but writers rarely do that. They reduce her to this bizarre female empowerment icon that doesn't really work narratively speaking in my opinion; not in the same way Catwoman and Ivy do.
For the most part I hate the way she's been written the last 10-13 years, I really do, except in the Arkham games. And not just because of her breaking up with Joker, but rather the way that they've handled that breakup in most stories is ridiculously simplistic and, in my opinion, an idiotic waste of potential for a complex story and an even more complex character.