Bought/Thought Dec 26th (Spoilers within)

[Harlekin]

For **** sake, you guys are acting like I had it totally wrong.

I had the part right about MJ jumping the gun and Peter being hesitant. From where I'm standing, she still pushed him to seal the deal.

I won't complain about how quickly someone jumped to find evidence to prove me wrong, when I clearly admitted to not being totally clear on it my self and even said I'd go back and reread it. Such "gusto" is admirable...I guess.

So basically, something like what I said.

How does "Pete getting ready to tell Mephisto to shove it" equate to "Peter being hesitant"?

And thank you, I take a certain pride in calling people on their faults.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I'm looking at who influenced him. Just like with the unmasking. Pete obviously doesn't trust his own judgment.

Which also smacks of childishness, just like his selfish reasoning for taking the deal. There's really no part of this whole thing that's good, Xof. I don't know why you're trying so hard to defend it.

 

[Xofenroht]

How does "Pete getting ready to tell Mephisto to shove it" equate to "Peter being hesitant"?

And thank you, I take a certain pride in calling people on their faults.

The way they equate is by me exaggerating.

Calling me on my faults though? How can you take pride in that when I admitted that I would have to go read it again? As if calling me out caused me some great fall from grace! I know I'm forgetful, other people on this board know I get stuff wrong sometimes, that's why drugs are bad.

Corp~ I'm not really trying to defend it so much as I am trying to get people to look at it from more than one angle. There's more than just Peter Parker involved in the story and MJ was there with him for a reason (thinking in terms of storytelling).

Maybe I'm just in the "denial" stage of grief. But I'm not going to pretend I didn't notice things that others didn't. People write things into stories for a purpose. MJ was there to serve a purpose for the story.

The more I look at it, the more I'm thinking I might carry on with BND even after January runs its course. I expect that the writers would be able to write Peter Parker out of the mess left by BND and into something (hopefully) better.

I just have to have hope. If it were Austen on the new creative team, I wouldn't touch it. But it's not.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I might agree with the sentiment if it were some other character besides Spider-Man. It's not like if sales suddenly dip, Spider-Man's comic would actually be canceled or anything. He's Marvel's flagship character and their corporate mascot; they'll publish him in some form for as long as the company exists. I'm willing to just wait it out and enjoy Marvel's other comics in the meantime.

 

[Xofenroht]

That's totally fine. But someone's got to keep up with what's going on in that title.

 

[Harlekin]

The way they equate is by me exaggerating.

Which makes no sense. Exaggerating means to make something greater than it is. In this case, you'd exaggerate Peter's hesitation, calling him an indecisive *****, rather than saying he was about to shove the deal in Mephisto's face, which, y'know, just plain didn't happen, and wasn't about to happen.

Calling me on my faults though? How can you take pride in that when I admitted that I would have to go read it again? As if calling me out caused me some great fall from grace! I know I'm forgetful, other people on this board know I get stuff wrong sometimes, that's why drugs are bad.

Lol, can't u see teh egg on ur face!?

 

[PhotoJones]

I might agree with the sentiment if it were some other character besides Spider-Man. It's not like if sales suddenly dip, Spider-Man's comic would actually be canceled or anything. He's Marvel's flagship character and their corporate mascot; they'll publish him in some form for as long as the company exists. I'm willing to just wait it out and enjoy Marvel's other comics in the meantime.

I'm willing to do the same, but with 64% more *****ing.

 

[BrianWilly]

Marvel peddles trash and people continue to make justifications for buying it. Bored now. Spin me another story, spider-gods.



Drugs are bad.

 

[Xofenroht]

Lol, can't u see teh egg on ur face!?

I see it, I'm just taking the higher road. For instance, I'm accepting that I made a mistake with an understanding for my tendency to make mistakes like this. I'm even cracking jokes on my self for this one.

What you're doing is jumping around like a little biotch because you one upped a stoner on something to do with memory.

And in the long run, I win.

Edit: Brian Willy, as far I'm concerned, it really doesn't matter how you see what's going on around you. The point is that I don't have as big of a problem with it as everyone else. The sooner you can accept the old saying "One man's trash is another man's treasure", the happier you will be in life.

I dreaded it, it happened, I hate that it happened, but hopefully it doesn't happen again. My decision to try out BND was already pending, before OMD even concluded, just because I knew I was interested. I'm a prideless man, I know.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

How, by spending money on crap while Harlekin saves his?

 

[Harlekin]

I see it, I'm just taking the higher road. For instance, I'm accepting that I made a mistake with an understanding for my tendency to make mistakes like this. I'm even cracking jokes on my self for this one.

What you're doing is jumping around like a little biotch because you one upped a stoner on something to do with memory.

And in the long run, I win.

No, you lose. You lose for thinking that "Lol, can't u see teh egg on ur face!?" was a serious response.

 

[PhotoJones]

I think in this case, we all lose.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

And in a couple weeks, I bet the sales charts will declare Joe Q the winner once again.

 

[Harlekin]

Joey Q for president!

 

[PhotoJones]

And in a couple weeks, I bet the sales charts will declare Joe Q the winner once again.

When the Q wins, we lose.

 

[Doc Destruction]

And in a couple weeks, I bet the sales charts will declare Joe Q the winner once again.

Sucker bet. You know damn well that will happen.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

What can I say, I'm not a risk-taker.

 

[Xofenroht]

No, you lose. You lose for thinking that "Lol, can't u see teh egg on ur face!?" was a serious response.

Once again, young apprentice, I won. Weren't the smilies enough to show I was still playing

 

[Harlekin]

Once again, young apprentice, I won. Weren't the smilies enough to show I was still playing

Whatever floats your boat, X.

 

[Xofenroht]

That's all I really wanted you to say.

 

[Dread]

Watching PhotoJones and Dan Slott go head to head was rather interesting. I never thought someone would be more polarizing on an issue, any issue, as in seeing nothing but Black and White than myself, but hot damn, PJ takes the cake. I bet he blames any hapless cleaning lady who swept the rug for the Creator Summit responsible for OMD, too.

It is great seeing Slott here and my opinion on it remains. OMD was happening regardless of who was coming aboard ASM next. Joe Q had been pushing to nix the marriage for well over a year and his JOE FRIDAY columns have troves of interviews about it. This was planned from the top down and everyone else had to go with it. This is how a business work. The majority of writers who have been interviewed since, if not outright against the move itself, at least have issue with how it was done. The ones who really can't do so are the ones involved. Yeah, it is very easy to sit behind a computer and go, "Oh, yeah, I've thrown back money if my heart wasn't into it, I'm an awesome person", but the fact of the matter is that if Dan Slott decided to stand up, make some sort of Optimus Prime worthy speach and declined the gig of his life, comic-wise, y'know what would have happened? Nothing. They were have had another writer launch BND. The launch would sell at least 100k regardless because shops will over-order it. The workplace environment for Slott will get more hostile because no company takes kindly to employees stifling the boss. He currently writes books for Marvel and he enjoys Marvel, breaking into the biz there and working mostly with them for well over a decade. The only definite thing of a Slott-less BND is that it will be less good than it could have been.

A little math; over at the Newsarama forums, over 13,200 people were polled about OMD and a good 60-65% ranked it the lowest, essentially labeling it garbage. Let's say that that entire amount of fans, roughly 8,580, decided to boycott BND. The third issue, which was the last for either FNSM or SSM, sold 103k in November. ASM will likely either hold steady or see more because it always outsold those books anyway. Maybe say some people at SHH or others stick to some guns, bump that boycott number up to, eh, 10k. Y'know what? 93k is a Top 20 book. Maybe even Top 15 depending on what else ships in Jan. 2008. Since Marvel is shipping ASM weekly as they merge 3 books into one, each issue merely has to pull around 65k or so in order to be making, combined, some of the numbers they had in 2006 collectively. There is no way possible ASM's numbers will fall that low no matter how angry we all are about OMD. I'd practically bet money on it.

Now, a 10% drop in sales immediately after BND will get someone's attention, as that would be the lowest sales for the title since maybe 2005. But it won't cause them to pull a 180.

TheCorpulent1 raises the point that while Dan Slott really couldn't do anything to derail OMD even if he wanted to, he IS in position to make the best of it and perhaps try to get things back to the way they were. Again, I use THE THING as an example. When that title started, Thing & Alicia had been split up as "just friends" for several years by that point. Within 8 issues, Slott managed to get them back together as "the couple" in an entertaining and organic way. The fact that JMS and McDuffie would do nothing with this subplot in FF isn't Dan's fault. I have little doubt that Slott will try to work things in with MJ at some point, hence Jackpot. The concept of MJ as a heroine rather than a worrying wife stuck at home is....interesting. They could have still been married or divorced for that to occur, though.

Once again, out of all the ways to separate the Parkers without killing either of them, why in the world was making a deal with "your world's devil" (as Blackheart once described his father Mephisto) selected? In a country where over 50% of marriages end in divorce, especially folks who marry before age 30, why in the hell was this chosen as more acceptable? What makes Peter Parker work are the human moments, the areas where someone can go, "I have been there". This storyline had none of that, it just had the sort of hokey, comic bookish whitewash that MAD Magazine and others literally mock the entire genre for. Comics like OMD are why there are Vertigo/Indie snobs who scoff at the "Big Two junkies".

Dan Slott will be making the best out of his situation, of that I am certain.

However...presuming I have some strength in the second week of January when his BND issue launches, I have discovered a compromise. I could wait for the trade. I won't be able to engage in the current discussions with the 50% or so readers on the Hype who will read it monthly anyway, but at least I will read it. And I will be able to see how the numbers hold. I honestly doubt they will crumble even 10% out of "fallout". The vocal minority online almost never influences the silent majority who make ULTIMATES 3 #1 a hit.

It simply is a shame, again, that Joe Q and the other editors failed to see that it wasn't MJ that ruined Spider-Man. It was knee-jerk, retcon-inducing, white-washing fad driven storylines like CLONE SAGA, like the RELAUNCH immediately afterwards, like THE OTHER, and so on, that have ruined Spider-Man. They have attempted to fix what wasn't broke and instead simply bred more sharks for the web-slinger to jump over. This is the latest one, and arguably the worst since the Saga some 11-13 years ago. I feel sorry for Slott, finally getting a gig like ASM and having one of the worst set-ups in years and having to bare the brunt of that ill will that was generated. Like Gerald Ford coming in after Nixon. History vindicated him, but that took a generation or so.

Reviving Harry? I'm damn surprised Gwen wasn't revived.

But...there is something positive to talk about. I went into Manhattan and finally got my copy of INVINCIBLE PRESENTS: ATOM EVE #1 (of 2) today @ Cosmic Comics. Whenever the corporate bungling of the elites mangles my childhood hero again and again, Invincible seems to always be there to lift be back from the doldrums and remind me why I bother with superhero comics in the first place (besides all the other great Marvel books out there, including AVENGERS: THE INITIATIVE). It is written by Benito Cereno and drawn & inked by Nate Bellegarde (with the always-reliable Bill Crabtree on colors, and Kirkman himself as editor). It is 24 pages without ads with a bonus 1-2 pager back-up by Kirkman & Bellegarde noting why Mark Grayson isn't part of the story. Cory Walker returns to the characters he co-created on the cover. Having longer than the 2-4 pages that Eve's origin had maybe 2-3 years ago (I believe it was the second HC for me), it has time to breathe and allows us to literally follow her from the womb to adolescence. Having been the subject of a government experiment to create superhumans, Eve was switched at birth for a stillborn baby so her "creator", Dr. Elias Brandyworth, could save her from a life of government servitude. Naturally, she is born incredibly intelligent, which doesn't gell with her blue-collar family, especially when she wants a life of her own and discover her power to, essentially, create or reorganize any matter. She starts off as a young heroine who actually wears a domino mask (which we know she will abandon, for some reason, by the time she nears 18 and joins Robot's Teen Team). The government, meanwhile, is furious about losing her and wants to recollect her. Had this been released years ago when Kirkman wanted, it may not have had the effect it has now. That is, it is coming on the hells of an arc in INVINCIBLE where Mark will inevitably find out about Cecil & the government's dirty dealings, and have some sort of falling out. Eve wasn't their first attempt at creating a super-soldier and she wasn't the last. In the wake of something like CIVIL WAR where heroes peddle for the fed or go to jail, this will be a VERY intense storyline in the Invincible-verse and Eve is a key cog of it, as Kirkman admits in a 2 page notation about the character. The timing is perfect for this mini.

There is a bit of me that is dismayed that INVINCIBLE, which is one great book, may do what every single "one great book" has done; expand to 2, 3, 4, and more into an entire "franchise" that stretches things out and creates a heap of problems. That is perhaps putting the wagon before the horse at this stage, but, as OMD proves, comic fans usually are justified in being paranoid. Still, for the moment it is a solid story without any ad-breaks in the pages about a cool supporting character for INVINCIBLE. I can imagine ALLEN THE ALIEN could also be due down the pipeline. There's a lot to like here, especially with Benito's dialogue, which captures the heart of Kirkman's very well. The art is great, too. If you love INVINCIBLE, you'll enjoy this, so snap it up.

 

[PWN3R]

I so wish I would have been here for the entirety of this thread.

Interesting read to say the least.

 

[GNR]

Photo went head to head with Slott?

Nice.

 

[yenaled]

Reviving Harry? I'm damn surprised Gwen wasn't revived.

Maybe you've already read this it is a few days old but because you said that I had to post;

The only thing we kept vacillating on was Gwen Stacy; we had a debate as to whether to bring her back. In the end, Joe and I wanted Gwen back. Several months later, several of my editors and some of the creators spoke to me and lobbied to keep her dead and in the end, much to Joe's and my disappointment, we had to leave her be. Ultimately, I felt that the arguments I was hearing for keeping her dead were stronger than my reasoning for bringing her back.

from CBR

 

[Themanofbat]

Photo went head to head with Slott?

Nice.

Photo came off as a jerk...