BvS BvS Rottentomatoes score - how important will it be, and what do you hope for? - Part 6

[JOE]

Edit: I'm an idiot.

 

[Poni_Boy]

I love how people are all over Poni for changing his opinion after a second viewing. That's an extremely common thing that I'm willing to say everyone here has done.

No no no, I have to stick with my first reaction. That's what I agreed to do when I took this job. If I want to change my opinion after further inspection of anything I cover I should resign immediately. Who do I think I am anyway?

 

[Tony Gunk]

that's fine and plausible to say and write as a review for batman v superman. but then don't tell me the next day it's the greatest super hero movie ever made.

why not? One common occurrence is everyone saying the film is so dense that it'll take a few viewings to get your head round out.

If you can't handle these sorts of reviews or comments get off the internet.

 

[TripleJ]

Well yeah. It's bad enough being content with "subpar" critical reception, but it's even worse that they're ok with what can only be described as "character assassination"

Hmm, the second aspect of it.

Well, yes. If you are a DC fan, you would know that DC very much loves multiverse - and how much freedom they have given to creatives (live action, animated and comics) to reimagine and reinterpret the character they want to.

So, are all those interpretations character assassinations? (Technically they are, since most of them don't resemble the original creations). But, for better or worse, there are fans of these versions. And every version is just as valid as the originals.

I can understand hanging on to one particular iteration. What I can't understand is - how can one claim to be a DC fan when one can't accept that there are multiple iterations/versions of these characters?

(I am not questioning you, just saying).

 

[harryoscop]

I feel that Snyder not only doesn't understand these characters but truly feels they are little more than their aesthetic. And if he nails that he's done them justice.



I saw it with what I would consider a GA audience [Repost] I saw it with a much of IMAX execs, IMAX employees and PR people (some of which brought their families). It was a morose atmosphere after it ended. Felt like a funeral procession. That's usually the vibe with stuff like 12 Years a Slave.

 

[Matt]

Everyone shut up about Poni_Boy. God forbid we have a critic who is willing to rewatch a film, reconsider aspects, and let his opinion develop rather than stubbornly clinging to his preconceived notions in light of shocking evidence to the contrary. At any rate, he has done nothing to let us think his integrity should be called into question. You may not like what he has to say, but I will not stand for people insulting him. Debate his points, if you'd like. Not his integrity.

 

[Stark Bauer]

Thanks. I stand by my opinion that if you're an adult fan of these characters there's a lot to like here. It was clearly made with the comic book reading crowd in mind.

I edited my response above:

I just read your review. It seems level headed. I think I will in fact enjoy it, I am more of a visual person. Plus I like Frank Miller's dark nihilistic take on Batman. Overall sounds like a slightly above average movie or a C+. I understand you giving the movie a second chance. The fact that you did that only makes your review more authentic to me, because to me, you wanted to give it an honest, thorough look. Thanks for the review.

P.S. Even better. The more adult the better I say. The DC TV shows are for the kids, adults pay to watch the grown up fare lol

 

[sf2]

well i didn't read any of the review.
but my guess is they all stay stuck with the light-hearted, cheerful, kid-friendly superman movie / super hero movie.

 

[OtherwiseKnownAs]

I feel that Snyder not only doesn't understand these characters but truly feels they are little more than their aesthetic. And if he nails that he's done them justice.

And it's funny, because comic books, they aren't hard to read. Just sit down, read the comic's that are most popular with fans. Read All-Star Superman, read the O'Neil/Adams run on Batman, watch The Animated Series. Pick out what resonated with fans, and what didn't. If you come across something that fans liked where the characters are different, understand they liked it because it was a subversion of the character, not the actual character.

 

[I Am The Knight]

Oh dear.

 

[Ms. Marvel]

well i didn't read any of the review.
but my guess is they all stay stuck with the light-hearted, cheerful, kid-friendly superman movie / super hero movie.

No.....

Edit: Example of review that doesn't mention "movie needs to be more kid friendly" http://lwlies.com/reviews/batman-v-superman-dawn-of-justice/

 

[Poni_Boy]

I edited my response above:

I just read your review. It seems level headed. I think I will in fact enjoy it, I am more of a visual person. Plus I like Frank Miller's dark nihilistic take on Batman. Overall sounds like a slightly above average movie or a C+. I understand you giving the movie a second chance. The fact that you did that only makes your review more authentic to me, because to me, you wanted to give it an honest, thorough look. Thanks for the review.

P.S. Even better. The more adult the better I say. The DC TV shows are for the kids, adults pay to watch the grown up fare lol

Maybe you misunderstood. It's not "adult" as in mature, deep or sophisticated. It's dark, violent, and nihilistic. It's Watchmen with Batman and Superman but with more bloat.

 

[Tony Gunk]

you sound like you can't take criticism too well. good place for the misuse of ironic, eh? and i'm not desperate to defend this movie. i am still looking forward to seeing it, but at this point i'd say people whose reviews i respect have tempered my enthusiasm, i hate to say the name, but i tend to agree with devin faraci on most films.

but i do think its an interesting question, should a critic give any piece of art a second chance? but as i also said, it's pretty off topic.

and that there is easily one of the most ironic statements to ever hit the internet.

 

[Flint Marko]

Yep.

Second time I saw Age of Ultron I went from loving it to feeling pretty meh about it. Second time I saw Ant-Man made me like it even more. Changing opinions is common because you can pick up on things that you didn't in your first viewing, and look at the movie knowing what's coming and how it's going to play out.

That's actually exactly what I felt with AoU and Ant-man. Ant-mans become one of my favorite MCU movies while AoU is in the middle of the pack.

No no no, I have to stick with my first reaction. That's what I agreed to do when I took this job. If I want to change my opinion after further inspection of anything I cover I should resign immediately. Who do I think I am anyway?

Lol. I wonder how many of them would be mad if you came back loving it? I've seen all of my favorite film critics, whether on podcasts, video reviews, articles, etc., mention how their views on something evolve and change over time. It's just a part of the job if you're able to revisit a movie.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

stay golden, poni boy

I respect and appreciate your opinion

 

[Mjölnir]

It can still get 80%+ if the next 150 reviews are fresh... Not trolling, just math lol.

If 150 fresh reviews come in it will still only be at 67%. It would be 198 fresh, 98 rotten.

 

[Poni_Boy]

well i didn't read any of the review.
but my guess is they all stay stuck with the light-hearted, cheerful, kid-friendly superman movie / super hero movie.

Nope. But if there was a choice of either watching a light-hearted, cheerful, kid-friendly superman movie / super hero movie or this, the majority would rather watch the former.

 

[Angryfantasyfan]

I love how people are all over Poni for changing his opinion after a second viewing. That's an extremely common thing that I'm willing to say everyone here has done.

He even gave that as a reason why he gave up being a tomatoer. He didn't want to give a movie a final verdict after just one viewing.

 

[The Guard]

While I don't think Poni changed his mind based on critics reviews, its hard to deny that there are some who are, and have.

And that's just kind of sad.

I suspect there are critics who did the same. Which is even sadder.

 

[danoyse]

Matt wants nothing more than this movie to be good. Matt's first time at the movie theater (that he can remember, anyway), was Superman IV. As bad as it was, it was amazing to be a kid, watching a man fly on the big screen. Its the day I fell in love with superheroes. Matt wants his daughter to be able to look at his favorite superhero exactly the same. Instead, she has to grow up in a world where a Superman movie is a bleak and joyless affair.

My dad took me to see the first Superman in the theater. I was 4, and I loved it. Movie theaters still sold programs back then, and he bought me one (which I don't have anymore). When II came out, my sister was big enough to come with us, so we saw it with a bunch of our friends. We were little kids, but it was Superman and he was so cool.

My sister's favorite superhero is Superman, because of how much we loved those movies as kids. Now she has an 8-year-old, and she can't really take him to the new Superman movie because it's too dark and violent. As kids who grew up with these, that is SO messed up.

I don't need a retread of the Reeve movies, but why can't we have Superman movies that everyone can enjoy like we did back then??

 

[JOE]

If 150 fresh reviews come in it will still only be at 67%. It would be 198 fresh, 98 rotten.

LMFAO! I used the wrong total, Jesus that's embarrassing... You're right lol

 

[OtherwiseKnownAs]

Hmm, the second aspect of it.

Well, yes. If you are a DC fan, you would know that DC very much loves multiverse - and how much freedom they have given to creatives (live action, animated and comics) to reimagine and reinterpret the character they want to.

So, are all those interpretations character assassinations? (Technically they are, since most of them don't resemble the original creations). But, for better or worse, there are fans of these versions. And every version is just as valid as the originals.

I can understand hanging on to one particular iteration. What I can't understand is - how can one claim to be a DC fan when one can't accept that there are multiple iterations/versions of these characters?

(I am not questioning you, just saying).

Because when you're doing an adaption of franchise for the mainstream, and yes this was very much made to be a mainstream movie, you should at least try to keep the core of the character alive. When you go to a Batman movie, you generally want to see Batman. Not Vampire!Batman, not Medieval!Batman, but the comic book Batman. And like I said in my previous post, those multiverse version's worked because they're subversion's of the character. When you introduce a character to the mainstream, you should give them the actual character.

 

[Fumardude]

Rip BvS

 

[Poni_Boy]

And it's funny, because comic books, they aren't hard to read. Just sit down, read the comic's that are most popular with fans. Read All-Star Superman, read the O'Neil/Adams run on Batman, watch The Animated Series. Pick out what resonated with fans, and what didn't. If you come across something that fans liked where the characters are different, understand they liked it because it was a subversion of the character, not the actual character.

Yeah. I love Identity Crisis but why the hell would I want that as a movie? It's not entertaining. It's a think piece. Same with The Killing Joke. Or Red Son. Just to get the visuals in live action? No thanks.

 

[Deserana]

Is anyone else getting ever so slight shades of Phantom Menace here? I mean so every is buzzed and early build and word is good. The trailers are awesome.

Then screenings happen. Now the weird thing about being the first people to watch a film is that you have no previous reviews to base it off. You are the ones forming the opinion of the film which means that is the only time get to watch a film without any preconceived notions about how you may react.

Now look at the first reactions from people, primarily the load we got 3 days ago. With John Campea, El Mayimbe, Superhero News etc... Almost all of them started with "hmm I'm gonna have to see it again" they all said there's good things but there is just so much happening.

Then more people start watching it to mixed/negative reactions. Then those people who went once go again and then come back with even lower scores. And then the consensus seems to become more negative than good.