First Avenger Captain America's Costume

[DJ Kornphlake]

I just don't get why so many people are seemingly willing to get away from the superhero aspects of the character.

 

[lixdexia]

I just don't get why so many people are seemingly willing to get away from the superhero aspects of the character.

i think it's because it's hard for them to reconcile war with what they expect of a superhero movie. hopefully the movie makers will be able to find a good balance between the two

 

[Deaths Head II]

i think it's because it's hard for them to reconcile war with what they expect of a superhero movie. hopefully the movie makers will be able to find a good balance between the two

That's what I'm hoping for too.

 

[Jerkofwonder]

We are all asking for a balance between the two. I don't think anyone is saying they should throw all the super hero stuff out of the window. It's just that your idea of a balance isn't really close, it is 90% comic book, 10% war.

 

[boog_spin]

i like the idea of captain america...and i realize that the war is a HUGE part of the character...but when you start to mingle super heroes with real life events..for me, it just really annoys me...

why didnt supes stop vietnam, or 9/11 or etc....
why doesnt _____ stop ____ or _____

so i hope they do the cap justice, while not disrespecting the men who fought and died in an ACTUAL battle...but i personally like my superheroes to be pure entertainment, because when you throw them in actual current world events, it just annoys me.

thats all.

 

[chris moore]

We need a poll on here really. Cos peoples points are getting lost in the misunderstandings of whether some people on here even want him to be identifiable as Cap from a visual standpoint (cos I dont know about you but I cant recognise "inspiration and American ideals" as a mental state from 200ft away through smoke and explosions)

Tone
Dark Knight (gritty, dark, pure war before the daybreak style)
Ultimate Avengers Cartoon opening sequence (costume and tone)
Indiana Jones (a hard edge, but slightly uplifting when not fighting and more about his espionage/special mission exploits rather than joining the big pushes on the front lines)

I think we can all agree we don't want it as popcorn as FF in either tone or costuming

WW2 Costume at all times (no "for the propaganda/media" crap please)

Bog standard WW2 Army Captain Uniform but with some kind of shield
Standard WW2 army uniform with vague blueish and reddishness to it and helmet with an A (plus shield either plain paintjob or classic)
Ultimate Avengers Cartoon WW2
The Statuette above (incl mask but with or without wings)
Classic 616
Modern day Ultimate Cap (Mask or Helmet version)

 

[afan]

i think it's because it's hard for them to reconcile war with what they expect of a superhero movie. hopefully the movie makers will be able to find a good balance between the two

Tarzan battled Nazis......in a loincloth.......while the war was actually being fought...........and the public ate it up!

Indiana Jones fought Nazis including tanks..........with a bullwhip.....on a horse........decades after the war was fought............and the public ate it up!

Iron Man beat the bejeebus out of modern Middle Eastern Terrorists......and the public ate it up.

What makes anyone think a super-hero attired Captain America battling similar foes, would be any less popular or entertaining.

 

[DJ Kornphlake]

We are all asking for a balance between the two. I don't think anyone is saying they should throw all the super hero stuff out of the window. It's just that your idea of a balance isn't really close, it is 90% comic book, 10% war.

What are you basing that on? I'm pretty sure I know what my own opinion is better than you do.

 

[Jerkofwonder]

Tarzan battled Nazis......in a loincloth.......while the war was actually being fought...........and the public ate it up!

Indiana Jones fought Nazis including tanks..........with a bullwhip.....on a horse........decades after the war was fought............and the public ate it up!

Iron Man beat the bejeebus out of modern Middle Eastern Terrorists......and the public ate it up.

What makes anyone think a super-hero attired Captain America battling similar foes, would be any less popular or entertaining.

None of them were in europe, in the battle. Fighting a couple nazi tanks in egypt or some other plkace where the war is not raging is not the same at all. And Iron Man took the terrism parts very very seriously. Did Stark's time in the cave seem like a super hero movie to you?

 

[afan]

None of them were in europe, in the battle. Fighting a couple nazi tanks in egypt or some other plkace where the war is not raging is not the same at all. And Iron Man took the terrism parts very very seriously. Did Stark's time in the cave seem like a super hero movie to you?

The WW in WWII, my friend, stands for "World War" which included Africa.

Indiana Jones got Hitler's autograph, at a Nazi demonstration/slash book burning in Berlin. He was pursued and strafed by Luftwaffe fighters.
Is that close enough to Europe for ya?

 

[Jerkofwonder]

Ok, I am going to try and make this as clear as I can. None of those took place on the battlefield of WW2. Yes things were happening all over the world, but the battlefield, the real, big battlefield where people were dying and fighting every day all day... was in Europe, and none of those movies were in the places that was going on. This movie will take place primarily there, it has to have an edge, it can't just seem like a regular super hero movie because cap is not a regular super hero. He's a super soldier.

 

[DJ Kornphlake]

The Pacific Theatre was just as hellish as the European.

 

[marcvader]

How much of this movie is actually going to take place on a "battlefield". Of course you're going to get that, but come on, the whole movie is not going to take place on a "battlefield". There's all the business before he actually makes it out there in the first place. Then there's all the business with Red Skull, which I'm sure is not going to take place on the "battlefield".

 

[JackIvyGB]

I am REALLY liking the idea of this having the tone of an Indiana Jones film. Still exciting and an adventure, not to intense like Private Ryan, but still able to create and hold drama. Cap definitely needs to be on the front lines in order to show off just what he can do as a super soldier, but that doesn't mean there can't be other scenes of him doing more espionage type stuff. He didn't just go on one mission before he froze. Otherwise it'd be a pretty dang short film!

I still firmly believe the safest way to go would be the Ultimate WW2 suit in the solo film, then the modern Ultimate suit in Avengers. However, I went and saw Watchmen again this past weekend, and I started thinking, the only way I could see the classic Cap suit working is if the film felt like Watchmen's opening credits. It showed the WW2 era heroes in serious situations and was able to hold the drama while still maintaining a golden age feel, which might not be bad for a film that plays up the fact that Cap was "the first Avenger". They had more "outlandish" for lack of a better term, outfits as well. There's even the scene with Silk Spectre painted on the side of a WW2 era plane. Then again, I watched Indiana Jones 4 again and not that I am saying that it was a good Indy film, but I think the tone would be great for a Cap film, and the Ultimate WW2 suit would fit in spectacularly. I'd love to see the scene from the Ultimates where he blows up the train in WW2.

As far as the impact of the head wings on the movie, I will once again post this :

If realism didn't factor in at least to some degree, you would have been able to see Iron Man's muscles through his suit, the way it was drawn for so long until Adi Granov and others began depicting it more plausibly. If it didn't matter, we would have gotten Doc Ock in green and yellow tights. If it didn't matter, the division between 2 face's scarred and clean sides in TDK would have been drawn with a ruler. The list goes on. Yes, to comic fans it's anything goes sometimes, but to the general public, the difference between ridiculous and plausible within the realm of the material can be something so superficially trivial as what shade of green the hulk is.

And that's what you have to look at. Realism is not a great word to use. A better way to put it is the ability to create a level of plausibility that operates in conjunction with the general audience and also with the source material in a way that doesn't force viewers to make leaps to buy into situations or take them out of the submersive story, but still respects the material. Of course that's a rather lengthy way to say it, so most people just say "Let's inject some realism"

Am I saying wings will kill the movie? No. Am I saying that removing them wins oscars? No. But I can just hear it now:

The audience watches as american forces charge into the nazi outpost, fighting their hearts out. Suddenly, it looks as though one of the Americans is going to get killed as a Nazi attacks from behind! He rears up to strike and--BAM! Out of nowhere, it's our hero, Captain America, there to save his ally! He continues to pwn Germans left and right in a fantastic display of skilled movements and hand to hand combat, not to mention his wicked shield maneuvers. The audience watches in stunned silence until finally the action stops, and on screen we finally get a full shot of the good captain. He looks awesome. Close up on his head/face as he breathes heavy, exasperated, but victorious. Finally, 2 rows ahead of you, someone picks their jaw up off the floor and speaks:

"*smirk* Dude, look at his little wings..."
And everyone does..and they giggle with him.
Sure, theatre won't erupt in laughter over something so small, but everyone heard it. And now they'll think about it everytime they see it. Later on in the film, Cap is in a tight spot. Maybe it's the scene where he takes his fateful plunge into the cold sea to be frozen for a later time. We're on the edge of our seats, because for all those who don't know Cap's story, our hero is about to give his final breath in defense of his beloved country. And what do you hear:

"Quick Cap, use your little wings!!1!" *more immature smirks*
It kills the moment.

Sure, these people are jerks, and everyone is probably thinking, if not saying "Shut up you terd!" But still, it's in their heads. And later, they start thinking "Ya know, they do look a little silly. Why does he have them?"

It's not a huge deal, but isn't easier to avoid the situation?
Personally, I say having them as little hard sculpted pieces stuck on the sides of his cowl/mask/helmet/whatever is a great idea. They'd have to be flat against it though. Why stick something on that just looks like it's going to break off?

And why wouldn't it matter that cap sees himself as a soldier? He should really only start to be seen as a superhero when he joins the Avengers. Even still, that's only how the PUBLIC sees him. Whether that influences his wardrobe choice is up to interpretation, but it shouldn't change how he goes about his job.


However, I do have an idea for a cool scene that could play up the hero angle in modern times. I'll post it in a bit

 

[afan]

Ok, I am going to try and make this as clear as I can. None of those took place on the battlefield of WW2. Yes things were happening all over the world, but the battlefield, the real, big battlefield where people were dying and fighting every day all day... was in Europe, and none of those movies were in the places that was going on. This movie will take place primarily there, it has to have an edge, it can't just seem like a regular super hero movie because cap is not a regular super hero. He's a super soldier.

I think you need to do some research re. WWII.

However the idea that a super-hero on film battling "real" foes, be they historic or modern day, will not be accepted by an audience, is not supported by film history.

 

[November Rain]

er, wolverine gonna be in four real wars in a couple of months, any portrayal of war in cap is probably going to be similar to what's shown in wolverine.

 

[chris moore]

Cap can be shown leading a mass of troops without having the entire movie (or a major chunk of it) set on "the battlefield".
Several key points we should consider regarding what Cap can do, what he was created for originally (by his government - not the writers), and what he ultimately became once it was obvious there would only be one of him.

1) His initial 'creation' was to have a company of supersoldiers within the army to storm across the battlefield proper (that vast expanse where the bulk of the fighting was happening) when ordinary troops would easily be cut down. However, his being established as the only one there would ever be changed that considerably. Leading onto (2)

2) Sending one man who can batter through a dozen axis troops out onto the battlefield in the same vein as was intended for his company is like trying to hit a fly with a tennis racket (well, kind the reverse but you get the idea). Cap can get through defences no ordinary soldier can. He is tactically brilliant enough to plan for the unexpected on the fly. Aside from timing and numbers and air support, a big push on the primary battlefield is does not require that kind of thinking back then. Successfully completing a surgical strike on an enemy stronghold, munitions plant, hidden bunker etc does.

3) This means that Captain America, as the only soldier capable of a lot of that, is more useful to the government of that time if he carries out these goal specific missions rather than the 'gain as much ground as you can' ones to drive back the axis forces in general. This makes is logical to have the bulk of the movie focus on his single purpose missions in countries and locales all over the world. Think Indy 4 where its acknowledged that he did a lot of secret missions for the US military during the second world war - why? Because he has a skill set suited for certain types of mission. Back then, you want ten thousand blokes to run with guns at the germans and pull back land you use the regular brave guys who signed up like Steve wanted to. You want charges set at an experimental missile silo site in the middle of Austria you don't send one of those guys.

4) The battlefield moment could be briefly in the beginning before his superiors realise his potential and pull him off the front lines. And then towards the end of the film where the intel he's uncovered throughout that leads him to the mission that ices him offers the greatest success if a company accompanies him a la Ult Avengers cartoon beginning. That way when he 'dies' in the public's eyes it will have more impact if witnessed by a hundred men or so who he has personally led into battle.

 

[afan]

^Nice post, couldn't agree more.

 

[cryptic name]

i'm torn as far as a World War II era costume, but for when Cap is revived in modern times, i'd love a slightly modified version of this

possibly replace the black with a midnight blue, and replace the boots and gloves with dark red, more militiristic ones.

 

[afrayedknot]

Is it just me, or are some people making a really big deal about the wings on Cap's cowl? I really don't think the general public will be as distracted as these people are. I think they may be more distracted if there were no wings at all, considering that is the most common perception of Cap.

 

[chris moore]

You woulda thought people would have an issue with a soldier (for those people who maintain he's a soldier before he's a superhero) having a big "A" slapped on his forehead. But nope, its the tiny wings.

Personally, I like my superhero movies to be superhero movies, even if they have an edge or a slightly dark side. So I prefer Cap with a mask not a helmet (except possibly in WW2), little wings, the red white and blue, and at least a resemblance/homage to his pirate boots and gloves. I can take or leave the shoulder star, the mask can work without the wings but it'd be nice to see them. I can take or leave the pouch belt too. But its the uniform over costume issue I can't get past. Doesnt have to be Spider-Man tight, but I don't want to see fatigues, baggy pants, zip up jackets, armour, modern helmets, or a Cap T-shirt.

 

[chris moore]

This guy has put up an excellent classic interpretation over in the manips thread:

i'd like to see something close to his classic look

 

[Nivek]

Some of you might find this interesting if your doung your own Cap costume. High Dark Red combat boots.

http://www.stompersboots.com/gtwy_city-101.php

 

[E-Man]

I'd say keep it classic. Captain America is supposed to be a symbol too, so you can get away with the old costume. If the movie is set in WW2 then that's an easy excuse for him having the costume. "Oh his costume was made back then. You know they were pretty colorful back then." It's easy to explain why he'd wear it.

 

[Infinity9999x]

Tarzan battled Nazis......in a loincloth.......while the war was actually being fought...........and the public ate it up!

Indiana Jones fought Nazis including tanks..........with a bullwhip.....on a horse........decades after the war was fought............and the public ate it up!

Iron Man beat the bejeebus out of modern Middle Eastern Terrorists......and the public ate it up.

What makes anyone think a super-hero attired Captain America battling similar foes, would be any less popular or entertaining.

Comparing the tastes of pop culture in 1940's America doesn't really have much bearing on how the public will react today. During WW2, DC published comics that said "SUPERMAN SAY'S IT'S OKAY TO SLAP A JAP!"

I don't think that would go over that well today would you?

Now, I'm not necessarily disagreeing, I was just bringing up the point.