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First Avenger Captain America's Costume

Whic Captain America Uniform/Costume would you prefer for the film?

  • 616 Normal Cap

  • Modern Ultimate Cap

  • Modern Ultimate with the Helmet

  • WWII Ultimate Cap

  • Bucky Cap

  • All in Blue Fatigues

  • Multiple Uniforms (Front lines/Spysmashing/Promotional Press)

  • Fatigues/Costume Combo

  • Other

  • 616 Normal Cap

  • Modern Ultimate Cap

  • Modern Ultimate with the Helmet

  • WWII Ultimate Cap

  • Bucky Cap

  • All in Blue Fatigues

  • Multiple Uniforms (Front lines/Spysmashing/Promotional Press)

  • Fatigues/Costume Combo

  • Other

  • 616 Normal Cap

  • Modern Ultimate Cap

  • Modern Ultimate with the Helmet

  • WWII Ultimate Cap

  • Bucky Cap

  • All in Blue Fatigues

  • Multiple Uniforms (Front lines/Spysmashing/Promotional Press)

  • Fatigues/Costume Combo

  • Other


Results are only viewable after voting.
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you'd think and you'd be wrong. There are more modern boots that we had to buy on our own but the boots issued in boot camp were the same. Some of the uniforms I have worn havent changed from WW2. The US Military fears change

If that's the case then that's really unfortunate. I just have the Irish defence forces to go by, who stay up to date. But then again they pretty much lead in new uniform tech, so that makes sense. Only our ceremonial garb has gone pretty much unchanged.

Edit: Then again, maybe unfortunate is the wrong word. WWII boots might be of brilliant quality for all I know. :P
 
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Rogers is an admirable man prior to any serum or war. There does not need to be a growing other than physically. The serum creates a perfection of body that matches the perfection of spirit that already exists. That's why he is chosen above all others to participate.

So what character growth does he experience during the course of the war?
 
Did Batman ever use a gun? The answer is yes. Should a film feature Batman with a gun? The issue revolves around the choice and a choice is always debatable.

Not arguing against the inclusion of deadly force.
There are two versions for the spy's fate. One Steve kills him, the other Steve punches the spy and the spy falls against deadly equipment.

The removal of Batman using a gun made sense. He stopped using one because it made him no better than the man who killed his parents. It was a personal issue and choice. He was never in a war. He was a one man crusade and the only way he can win is to not cross the line of what he is fighting against.

Cap is in a war in WWII where the attitude is completely different. Roosevelt rallied up everyone in America after Pearl Harbor. Everyone wante dto serve their country in some way. Steve is of cours one of those poeple. He joins and volunteers for the program. He's a symbol yet he's still a soldier and man. The context fits. People in America joined because they wanted to serve their country and use a gun to kill Nazis and the Japanese. Steve was one of those people, who wanted to serve. He just happened to join the program. I'm sure in the film the idea of being a symbol will clash with being a solider or a human being. These issues are much more interesting than Rogers doing everything without and reluctance or doubt as Cap. It can't all be crystal clean. Steve is a ritcheous and good man with greta intentions, and he volunteers for the program and agrees to wear the flag and be a symbol. It changes when you actually are one.

Evans mentioned Rogers is a good man with good intentions. He is ritcheous in his decisions. But that doesn't mean he's perfect. It's not interesting. I want to see the effects of having America on your shoulders in the battlefield. How does one feel of being a target that is a symbol? Why do you think he agreed to do the prgram in the first place? I'm sure Rogers had the best intentions for joining and becoming a symbol, but thinking aobut it is much different from actually being one.

And people are tkaing that poster too seriously. It's a goddamn pose. He's rallying up and being a symbol for the soliders who are taking cover. Exactly what a symbol is. It doesn't mean he's screaming "I'm gonna murder every single one of your goddamn Nazis and you all deserve to rot in hell." Plus, it's just concept art. Time will tell where all this leads. I'm staying positive about it.
 
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I had a chance to sleep on the argument of Captain America having a gun and whether it is right for his character. On one hand you have fans that want the historically accurate Captain America which did have a gun and did Kill people during the war with it. Then you have fans like me who see the type of character Captain America becomes later in comics. This Captain America persona is the one that stands for a set of ideals, standards, values, ethics and he believes there is still some good in all of humanity. I don't think that either group is wrong for wanting their version of Captain America to grace the silver screen, and I think the movie will be good either way. However, to me Captain America having a gun back in the 1940's was more about Marvel trying to help support our troops with their efforts in the war. Marvel was also able to help troops, by showing Captain America killing, which tells troops it's okay that they kill the enemy because they have no other choice. However, this point in Captain America's history was not about the character at all, but more about how he could be used to make a statement for our troops. Once the war ended perhaps not immediately after, character development became more important, and the personality he was given was one of honor and integrity. It is my belief that his personality is more important to his character then what he did or did not have as part of his costume at a certain point in time with comics. We are no longer at war with the Nazi's and the general public will see his code of conduct as being diminished by killing another human, whether it be for a good cause such as protecting his band of brothers or not. As for him being surrounded by 100 Nazi's and not being able to protect himself with just a shield, well as someone else stated if you have bullets flying at you a gun is not going to stop those bullets from hitting you. It is important that fans understand that Captain America's fighting ability is flawless, and he does it all with an effortless grace about him. We also need to remember this is a comic book and the job of the director is to make the unbelievable well believable. Kind of like when Dead pool was being shot at by all of those machine guns and he deflected all of them with his sword, like yeah that's going to happen, but it looked frickin great and the audience went wild for a while until they kind of screwed him up at the end. The point is that I don't think that either group is wrong, but for me the characters personality is the most important thing. As a result I believe by showing him killing people even Nazi's would make it so that people could never view him as having these high moral standards ever again. Once the audience sees him kill they can not unsee it, and it is not like the movies span over 60 years like the comics do. We as comic book readers have the fortune of getting character development over many years, in a movie they don't have that much time, and once they set a personality it will be very difficult to change it in such a short time period. Once again the gun doesn’t bother me as much as the fact that I feel that it changes the whole dynamics of his personality. Now one could argue that during the war that was his personality, but to me it was not. Instead it was an effort Marvel made to be supportive of troops.

Once again I respect everyone's opinion on the subject whether I agree or not and always appreciate listening to what people have to say.:yay:

Surfer
 
I'm ok with him having a gun in WWII, as long as we don't see it in modern day. And as long as he's not executing people like the Punisher.
 
Well as I stated before, I could see him having a gun in the beginning and maybe even killing a Nazi soldier or two from the distance. However, then finding himself confronted with killing up close and personal with the gun he realizes that he is better then killing, and in a dramatic moment throws away the fire arm deciding that his shield is all he needs to take out the enemy.

Surfer
 
Rogers is an admirable man prior to any serum or war. There does not need to be a growing other than physically. The serum creates a perfection of body that matches the perfection of spirit that already exists. That's why he is chosen above all others to participate.

SPOT ON! :bow:
 
That would be cool. Like the Nazis surrounding him, they all expect him to use the gun. He throws down the gun, thinking he'll surrender, but instead he throws the shield killing all of them in a circle. Afterwards he catches the shield. That is applause worthy right there.
 
I think you guys are really over thinking the gun thing. Having it doesn't mean he has to use it. He just has it. In case he's left with no other options. He can still be the guy who strives to take the enemy alive up until the point where doing so would put other people in danger.

And I don't think a scene where he has the chance to kill a Nazi up close and then decides not to and throws the gun away and never uses it again is really unnecessary. He can just have it and not use it. In fact, if he gets close enough to an enemy soldier where that scenario might come up he'd probably just punch the guy.
 
Well as I stated before, I could see him having a gun in the beginning and maybe even killing a Nazi soldier or two from the distance. However, then finding himself confronted with killing up close and personal with the gun he realizes that he is better then killing, and in a dramatic moment throws away the fire arm deciding that his shield is all he needs to take out the enemy.

Surfer

So he fights the rest of the war with his bare fists. :dry:

He'll be killed in 2 seconds.

That would be cool. Like the Nazis surrounding him, they all expect him to use the gun. He throws down the gun, thinking he'll surrender, but instead he throws the shield killing all of them in a circle. Afterwards he catches the shield. That is applause worthy right there.

How would that be any different then killing them with a gun? :doh:


Come on people, you are being ridiculous.
 
That would be cool. Like the Nazis surrounding him, they all expect him to use the gun. He throws down the gun, thinking he'll surrender, but instead he throws the shield killing all of them in a circle. Afterwards he catches the shield. That is applause worthy right there.

Or he could, y'know, not kill them. Depending on the situation, you are allowed to take POWs in a war.
 
I don't know where all the anti-gun sentiment comes from; Captain America isn't Batman. He's used guns before.
On top of that, Captain America is an enlisted soldier fighting in a war against Nazis. Captain America is not a non-lethal superhero, at least as far as wars are concerned. He never has been. If our troops on the shores of Normandy decided to be non-lethal, I imagine that D-Day would have gone quite a bit differently.
 
So he fights the rest of the war with his bare fists. :dry:

He'll be killed in 2 seconds.



How would that be any different then killing them with a gun? :doh:


Come on people, you are being ridiculous.

Where the hell have you been? I said that it wouldn't be any different before pages back and on other threads. I just said that something like that would be cool to see. :dry:
 
Or he could, y'know, not kill them. Depending on the situation, you are allowed to take POWs in a war.

I don't think a bunch of Nazis take a guy who wears the enemy's flag on him as a prisoner. I mean the Nazis wanted to serve because Hitler convinced them that everyone else was the source of their problems. Wouldn't killing a guy who represents what they don't have provoke them to kill him?
 
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I don't think a bunch of Nazis take a a guy who wears the enemie's flag on him as a prisoner.

Actually, they probably would take him as a prisoner to, at the very least, interrogate him. Despite their atrocities, the Nazis were very good at treating (non-Jewish) POWs fairly well.

And I was saying that the allies could take the Nazis prisoner. Cap would be more than able to do that shield trick non-lethally. In fact, it would require more effort on his part to make it lethal.
 
Ah, didn't know that. It could work either way I think.

But wouldn't it require more effort for it to not kill? When you're throwing it at that range, it takes alot of quick thinking in such a tense moment.
 
There are two distinct arguments here that are being confused as one.......

Should Cap carry firearms?....and.....

Should Cap use deadly force?



Discussed the firearms issue already..."I'm agin it"..... his shield is all the weapon he needs.

Re. deadly force......"I'm for it".

It is after all WWII.

Surfer said:
As a result I believe by showing him killing people even Nazi's would make it so that people could never view him as having these high moral standards ever again. Once the audience sees him kill they can not unsee it, and it is not like the movies span over 60 years like the comics do.

I don't see this effect at all. It's WWII and there is no antagonist more despicable than the Axis powers. It was if this can be said about any war "a good war". The men and women who fought the war were not, because of their service, devoid of high moral standards, in fact it may be those standards that spurred them to join. Did the American public judge the returning veterans as amoral?

As long as Cap's use of deadly force is pictured as necessary to get the job done and never to the point of extreme prejudice the audience will accept it. In fact including a scene where he might protect surrendering troops from the wrath of vengeful allies would drive home his moral character even tho he is depicted using deadly force.
 
Ah, didn't know that. It could work either way I think.

But wouldn't it require more effort for it to not kill? When you're throwing it at that range, it takes alot of quick thinking in such a tense moment.

The shield isn't all that sharp. The edge is thin enough to be used for cutting when he puts all of his strength into it, like holding it and slamming down on something with full force, but when he's throwing it at someone, it will just very seriously injury them. Some of them might die from their injuries, but it's not a death sentence unless he puts some real effort into making it one.
 
Nuff said, I doubt that Captain America would be dead in 2 seconds after all it is his movie. If a director is good they can make things that seem unbelievable believable. In real life Chris Evans who is playing Captain America has problems throwing the shield as was reported, but everyone wants to see that shield get tossed and when it is shown in the movie I am sure it will be believable. In the same way a comic book character holding only a shield can fight an entire army by himself. Why, because it is not real and in the comic world anything can go if you’re open to it. True in real life he would last only a few moments, but this is not real life it is a movie where fantastic things beyond our imaginations can come to life. I go to the movies to get something beyond reality. If I want to see reality I might as well stay home and watch a documentary on WWII. This is a comic book movie and he is not just human, but the perfect human. He moves with skill, grace, accuracy, and speed beyond that of anyone we know. I still think his shield is enough, but I was saying that perhaps there should be a dramatic moment where he tosses the gun in favor of the shield for those fans that really think a gun is part of his history and that it really needs to be there. I just thought it might be a compromise.

Surfer
 
The very simple mistake above is that you confound "relevance" with "acceptance". Accepting, in fantasy, the terms of war is to make a pact with destruction.

It would be many times more relevant if Cap was the man with no weapon in the middle of a war.

For many years now in his mythos, Cap was the righteous one, the one who would do anything but kill. That was the beauty.

Frank Miller, in the Fall of Murdock, makes Cap say that he serves no one, but the dream.

To make him use a gun, and to make him firing it all jerky, screaming, is just to add another battered war poster in a world already tired of it. :doh:

It's silly, non-imaginative, old-fashioned, anti-philosophical, you name it.

Relevance is in a total opposite attitude: making Cap a symbol, using a non-lethal weapon, being calm and assuring during a crisis is the core of the character.

That's not whining, Strykez: that's to think, reasoning, considering. You should know that after all these years (and I remember you as the voice against this easy "labeling" attitude). :cwink:

And I am still the voice of reason against labeling things sight unseen. :cool:

That applies here. We have no idea where in the storyline this particular conceptual shot is raised from, therefore we do not know what the proper context of its application is either. In addition, this is a promotional shot, so it is designed to appeal to a wide range of people beyond the CBM community. Again, since we are at war, it will strike a chord with other adults who have pride of country. It's all about marketing and raising curiousity.

The storyline will likely touch on this and many other elements of Steve. I am fairly positive that he will evolve. In other words, this doesn't necessarily mean this picture is the mythos of the character in his final development by the film's conclusion...ergo, we need to stop whining about the gun (and its possible usage) until we've seen the film.


;)
 
The shield isn't all that sharp. The edge is thin enough to be used for cutting when he puts all of his strength into it, like holding it and slamming down on something with full force, but when he's throwing it at someone, it will just very seriously injury them. Some of them might die from their injuries, but it's not a death sentence unless he puts some real effort into making it one.

Hmmmmm.......I'm not aware of any fact on how fast Cap can throw his shield. Is anyone aware of such info?
That would determine the damage it would inflict on a human body. My gut feeling is that it would easily be deadly.
 
Afan, I think you make a valid point about deadly force during the war being necessary and that our own troops coming home were viewed as heroes not as people who did despicable things. So, perhaps you are right and that deadly force used to protect other troops as well as himself from the axis of evil would be okay, I just don't want the purity of his character to be tarnished. My concern then becomes with the shield as a method for killing looking too brutal. Like someone else had pointed out he would have to put some effort in with the shield to actually kill another person. Unless of course he uses the shield to not only deflect bullets, but to actually redirect them back at themselves. Now that would be awesome, basically allowing them to kill themselves. :yay:

Surfer
 
Personally...I doubt the soldiers would trust a guy they are fighting with who didn't want to kill the enemy. No matter how pretty he looks. =P
 
Personally...I doubt the soldiers would trust a guy they are fighting with who didn't want to kill the enemy. No matter how pretty he looks. =P

I don't see why. "Not wanting to," and "unwilling to" aren't the same thing. There's nothing wrong with not killing people unless you absolutely have to. And there are people in war who refuse to kill. They're usually doctors or chaplains, but still. As long as they understand that he does put their survival first, I don't see why they wouldn't trust him.
 
Yes, but they don't fight along side the soldiers on the frontlines. Anyone who isn't willing to kill out on the frontlines puts the lives of his own soldiers at risk.
 
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