Captain Marvel General Discussion and Speculation - Part 1

[KRYPTON INC.]

Seeing as this is taking place between the two IW films is it possible that this film won't even take place primarily on Earth? Could Carol be brought into space?

 

[flickchick85]

Agreed with that. While Carol's secondary powers haven't been done, the main powers: flying, punching, shooting energy, these are all well done by multiple other characters. Even absorbing energy we've seen Iron Man do. So even if you have Iron Man busy, I dunno, fixing a propeller, Carol can still fly around, zap all the people for Cap and have time to go help Thor fight Hulk. It's hard to have problems already, but you want to add yet another person with extreme mobility and extreme power? And this one can shoot and absorb energy even better than Iron Man? Geez.

I disagree that knowing the character better makes that easier. It's certainly something Marvel's committed to dealing with during Infinity War Part II, which may not take much between everyone being separated at some point, perhaps across the cosmos, and coming together for the final battle or what have you.

I didn't mean that her powers would be easier to write for once he got to know her, just the notion of writing her in general would be less intimidating once she's an established person with a place in the universe already. It's one thing to try to imagine how to shoe-horn this hypothetical superbeing into your story in an organic way, but it's a whole other thing to see a character being portrayed by an actress on screen and then simply have to imagine her interacting with the characters you already have in your stable. The latter is much less intimidating. Not "easy," but when he's got a better sense of who Carol is, and her personal weaknesses and vulnerabilities as a character, it takes some of the weight off. Asking him about introducing Carol at that time was basically the equivalent of asking him about introducing Thor (if he hadn't been around before). He's got his whole team on the brain, so the thought of introducing such a god-like being (that he probably doesn't know very well) into his equation sounds daunting to say the least.

The thing with her powers is, Feige described Carol at the Media Event as "one of, if not THE, most powerful character in the entire MCU." Now, all of us nerds know that Carol's not nearly as physically strong as Thor, but her combined power set essentially puts her on the same level as MCU Thor. That quote from him really gave me a better idea as to why they might have been waiting until they did to introduce her: because once they reach the point of the Infinity War, these powerhouse characters will finally have enough powerful enemies to genuinely contend with. They'll actually NEED them. Whereas if you really think about it, Carol and Comics!Thor probably could have taken on the Chitauri threat in Avengers all on their own. So introducing (a super-powered) Carol earlier might have made things trickier for them, as the threats needed to get bigger first. On that note, I also think Infinity War might be the first Avengers installment that will let Thor really shine, powers-wise.

 

[Silvermoth]

Seeing as this is taking place between the two IW films is it possible that this film won't even take place primarily on Earth? Could Carol be brought into space?

I hope so. I'm actually not very interested in an earthbound carol. I would rather the stratosphere or beyond

 

[Mike Murdock]

Feige sorta said Earthbound origin and cosmic adventures. My guess is she'll do the most to bridge the two (start on Earth but go into space for the resolution).

 

[Avenger]

I still think she'll be in Infinity War, Part I and something will happen to her there to give her her powers, then the bulk of her solo movie will be set in space.

 

[haephestus]

Was he saying her powers aren't well-defined or the character (and her role) are undefined?

I think he *may* have meant "defined" as in restricted or limited?

Quicksilver has a pretty defined and "limited" power - he can run really fast. Sure, you can expand upon that to include additional powers, but that's his power in a nutshell. In any circumstances where he can't use those powers, then he's limited and if Ultron or Vision can also move fast, then he can be easily challenged.

With Scarlet-Witch, I have to presume that in his head, the movie version of Wanda has a defined and somewhat "limited" power set. Maybe she needs to be emotionally stable, calm and rational in order to exercise her powers in any sort of controlled manner? Maybe she needs to do the bizarre "calculating probabilities" thing? Basically, I'm guessing there is some kind of in-built "out" for Whedon to use to explain why Wanda just doesn't solve everything with a wave of her hands.

But, with someone like Captain Marvel, she's pretty much the ultimate hero, so trying to figure out challenges or even threats for her is more difficult. I'm not sure of the comic book stats, but she's basically superior to Thor since she can do anything he can, PLUS she has energy absorption and projection abilities as well. The energy projection abilities also match one of Iron Man's main abilities. She has strength that excels Captain America. And I'd imagine she could probably challenge the Hulk, even if the Hulk is stronger in terms of brute strength. So, Whedon may have simply meant that writing for a character like Captain Marvel is that much harder because it's difficult to come up with credible challenges and threats. How do you contain such a powerhouse without making them look stupid or ineffective?

Anyway, whatever Whedon meant, we're getting a Captain Marvel solo movie and more than likely a number of appearances by Captain Marvel in various other films as well!

 

[flickchick85]

I'm not sure of the comic book stats, but she's basically superior to Thor since she can do anything he can, PLUS she has energy absorption and projection abilities as well. The energy projection abilities also match one of Iron Man's main abilities. She has strength that excels Captain America. And I'd imagine she could probably challenge the Hulk, even if the Hulk is stronger in terms of brute strength. So, Whedon may have simply meant that writing for a character like Captain Marvel is that much harder because it's difficult to come up with credible challenges and threats. How do you contain such a powerhouse without making them look stupid or ineffective?

I agree with your post, but in terms of all that nerd stuff you were talking about: In the comics, Thor is definitely more powerful than her. Well, he has more strength than her, while all their other powers are more comparable. Hulk is technically stronger than her, too (he and Thor are tops in terms of sheer strength). However, as you mentioned, her other powers kind of give her a special edge, because she can absorb enough energy to become as powerful as a nuclear bomb (which she just about did in a recent issue).

Where it gets tricky is that MCU Thor is notably de-powered from his comic book incarnation, so I think if Carol's NOT very de-powered in her MCU translation, then she could end up being the most powerful hero they've introduced. Now, we would normally assume that they would de-power her slightly for the same reasons they did with Thor, but Kevin Feige did introduce her as "one of, if not THE most powerful hero in the entire MCU," which has me thinking they might not. Either way, she's definitely more powerful than Cap and Iron Man, no question.

But yes, I do believe this is what Whedon was talking about in that quote, which as I mentioned before, would explain why Thor kinda got the short end of the stick in Whedon's Avengers script. That said, I still hope Whedon at least writes Infinity War, because that will be the first time in which writing for these ridiculously powerful heroes won't be a problem at all since the threat(s?) will have gotten so huge that even characters like Thor and Cap Marvel at full power would legitimately struggle to win.

 

[Havok83]

But, with someone like Captain Marvel, she's pretty much the ultimate hero, so trying to figure out challenges or even threats for her is more difficult. I'm not sure of the comic book stats, but she's basically superior to Thor since she can do anything he can, PLUS she has energy absorption and projection abilities as well. The energy projection abilities also match one of Iron Man's main abilities. She has strength that excels Captain America. And I'd imagine she could probably challenge the Hulk, even if the Hulk is stronger in terms of brute strength. So, Whedon may have simply meant that writing for a character like Captain Marvel is that much harder because it's difficult to come up with credible challenges and threats. How do you contain such a powerhouse without making them look stupid or ineffective?

Anyway, whatever Whedon meant, we're getting a Captain Marvel solo movie and more than likely a number of appearances by Captain Marvel in various other films as well!

Carol has not made her MCU debut yet so her powerset and levels have not been established. Lets say Whedon was the one to create her, it would be up to him to do that and there's no guarantee that anything you just wrote would hold up. A lot of these characters have had adjustments to them to fit within the movieverse. Look at Whedon is doing with Wanda. Her powers already appear to be portrayed differently and I can guarantee you, she likely wont be as powerful as she is in the book. As mentioned, Thor was written as less powerful than he should be. There's no reason she cant be introduced weaker and get progressively stronger as the films come out. Heck that would be true to the books bc Carol couldn't do a lot of the stuff in the 70s as Ms. Marvel that she can now as Captain Marvel

FYI, I don't think she would have been too powerful for Avengers 1. Clearly not the best place for her to debut, but hypothetically, throwing her against a couple of those leviathans could have been enough to tie her up. She's been an active Avenger for years and the writers seem to handle her and threats they face quite well. She isn't that challenging as some deus ex machine

 

[MbJ]

He had no one with her flashy set in Avengers 1 so for him to write her off as simply a punchy character just doesn't make sense when she's more than that

Probably budget would be a big factor in holding off on her. l

Avengers 1 would have been the worst possible place to debut her. Look, I'm usually the first one to criticize the general lack of diversity in the MCU so far, but Avengers could barely juggle six characters without one getting sorely shafted for screen time. There's no way they could've fit in a seventh hero and actually done her justice.

It wasn't budget, it was "Why would we introduce a brand new heroine who we have to explore and explain when we already have six people eating up all the screen time?"

 

[Loki882]

Actually I would argue that Hawkeye DID get shafted for screentime at least a little. It's just that when he did appear, Whedon gave him cool stuff to do. And those were characters that had already been introduced in previous films. I wonder if Carol will have her Binary powers in this movie? Seeing her use them would essentially be like seeing someone go Super Saiyan in live action, which would be really cool.

 

[Loki882]

Carol has not made her MCU debut yet so her powerset and levels have not been established. Lets say Whedon was the one to create her, it would be up to him to do that and there's no guarantee that anything you just wrote would hold up. A lot of these characters have had adjustments to them to fit within the movieverse. Look at Whedon is doing with Wanda. Her powers already appear to be portrayed differently and I can guarantee you, she likely wont be as powerful as she is in the book. As mentioned, Thor was written as less powerful than he should be. There's no reason she cant be introduced weaker and get progressively stronger as the films come out. Heck that would be true to the books bc Carol couldn't do a lot of the stuff in the 70s as Ms. Marvel that she can now as Captain Marvel

FYI, I don't think she would have been too powerful for Avengers 1. Clearly not the best place for her to debut, but hypothetically, throwing her against a couple of those leviathans could have been enough to tie her up. She's been an active Avenger for years and the writers seem to handle her and threats they face quite well. She isn't that challenging as some deus ex machine

Not really. IM took out on of those things with ONE missile, and Thor/Hulk could also take them out on their own as well, and that's "significantly weaker than in the comics" MCU Thor. Even at a fraction of her comic book powers, Carol would have still torn through them like tissue paper.

 

[MbJ]

Actually I would argue that Hawkeye DID get shafted for screentime at least a little. It's just that when he did appear, Whedon gave him cool stuff to do. And those were characters that had already been introduced in previous films. I wonder if Carol will have her Binary powers in this movie? Seeing her use them would essentially be like seeing someone go Super Saiyan in live action, which would be really cool.

Hawkeye is the one I was talking about when I said without someone getting shafted. He barely did anything and that was with only 6 Avengers to juggle. Carol would've been overkill.

 

[Loki882]

It makes me wonder how Whedon will juggle the original six, plus giving Clint a bigger role, plus introducing Ultron, PLUS introducing QS/SW/Vision in AOU?

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

Feige sorta said Earthbound origin and cosmic adventures. My guess is she'll do the most to bridge the two (start on Earth but go into space for the resolution).

That's pretty much her role in the comics, and they have a need for that type of role in the MCU right now so it makes perfect sense.

 

[Marathon]

I'm hoping we get both past Captain Marvels: Mar-Vell and Monica Rambeau (even though they might not be called that). Also, a Kamala Khan cameo would be nice.

After Captain Marvel, I hope Carol will at some point become Binary; that will be awesome to see just for the visual.

 

[flickchick85]

The difficulty with Monica is that her connection to the rest of the Captain Marvel mythos is vague and tangential at best. I'm not opposed to her being included in some capacity, as I do like her and Carol's rapport whenever they interact, but I think her character might take some re-imagining for that to happen.

 

[Avenger]

I really think we'll just get Mar-Vell as the sole predecessor to MCU's version of Carol. It's simpler.

 

[Marathon]

Maybe a non-powered Monica-as-a-friend cameo?

 

[Silvermoth]

That would be cool.

Assuming of course she does eventually get powers

 

[fixxxer]

^ "Next time, baby."

 

[Nokio]

Maybe a non-powered Monica-as-a-friend cameo?

One of the visually coolest Avengers that I wouldn't mind seeing in a movie and she should be turned into a non superpowered best friend/side kick?? No.

 

[Nokio]

Marvel is going to have to introduce Carol before her own film. I like Carol and Monica as Captain Marvel but I just have never found either of them to be that interesting as stand alone characters. They always were better served as part of the Avengers as a whole. Yes I've read the solo features on both of them and it was meh. I guess Marvel needed a female superhero and Carol/Ms Marvel is probably the best choice out of their roaster of female superheros. Storm is probably number 1 in the Marvel universe in terms of female characters but she's at stuck at FOX. I'm willing to bet that if Marvel had the Xmen rites we'd be getting a Storm solo female superhero driven film.

 

[KangConquers]

Didn't Joss say he doesn't like Carol all that much?

He sort of did. He said the films didn't need another flying, punching character, and that he'd rather do Tigra.

That doesn't mean he doesn't like Carol, persay; he just finds her powers redundant.

 

[Gusto]

Well I guess now we know why he wants out of A3, lol.

 

[Panthro]

He sort of did. He said the films didn't need another flying, punching character, and that he'd rather do Tigra.

That doesn't mean he doesn't like Carol, persay; he just finds her powers redundant.

That's too bad, Carol seems like the kind of character he would write well.