Discussion in 'The Avengers Sequels' started by Lorus, Jul 30, 2012.
Indeed, it is.
Why shouldn't Cap wield the hammer? It's actually cannon that he's worthy. You clearly haven't read very many comics.
I think it would be cool to see widow for whatever reason, switch sides or kinda pull a double agent type thing. Which could open the door for another hero to join avengers, and be a nice twist, when she eventually reveals herself to be one of the good guys. Maybe wait until avengers 3 to switch back. So, gimme a avengers roster that looks like this:
Hulk (gets booted to a different planet)
Black Widow (double agent)
Does not apply to this thread. Sorry.
If the Avengers Assemble cartoon is any indication then I think we might see Falcon join. BUT considering Whedon plans to make A2 "more personal" we might not see the roster expand until A3. Still, I'm hopeful. I'd like to see BP and Wasp as the top two new additions. Infact I wouldn't mind seeing a roster like this...
Minus Valkyrie of course. Keep Hulk.
I've actually thought about this happening in A2 since in Ultimates 2 Widow betrays the team. It would work with Whedon talking about how he's going to dig a knife into the team.
Whedon said there will be 1-2 new team members, which will probably Falcon and/or Iron Patriot. That's all I'm seeing in terms of new members though.
Avengers 2 will be the "Empire Strikes Back" of the movies, which sounds great to me. I'm excited to see them dig deeper into the characters. Now we just need RDJ to re-sign, and everyone else is already on contract.
I would stop watching anything by Marvel if that happened. It made me stop reading Ultimates.
It took years to get to that point and you want to do it this early in the MCU? Stuff like that happens in the comic book world because they print a gajillion issues.
This I can agree with. I would love to see it.
Iron Man: Captured/"killed" by Thanos at the beginning
Hulk: Gets blasted to another planet due to being framed for killing hundreds of people
Black Widow: Betrays the team somehow
Definitely sounds like a lot of knife digging.
Cap wielding the hammer? nah, I'm good on that. But I always envisioned a scene where Cap is laying on the ground next to the hammer and casually hands it to Thor before getting up and going back to the fighting. Then after a second or two, Thor does a double-take, like a "what the hell?" kind of moment. I don't think they need to show Cap worthy of lifting Mjolnir in the sequel, but I would like to see it adressed at some point in an Avengers movie. As a Cap fan, I think it would be an awesome scene in general, and really lend to the character for the GA to know he's one of the few worthy to lift it.
There's nothing wrong with having Cap lift and/or wield Mjolnir since he has done it in the comics. By the time Avengers 2 rolls around the MCU will consist of eleven movies over seven years. Obviously the characters won't have hundreds of appearances behind them as they do in the comics, but they will all be thoroughly established by then. Showing that Steve Rogers is worthy under the conditions of Odin's enchantment will not diminish Thor in any way. We know to whom the hammer belongs and it will always remain in his possession.*
* Unless Beta Ray Bill gets the hammer later on. In which case, I quit. I hate that ****ing goat.
He's not a goat, he's a Horse!
*pictures him battling Bad Horse*
Seeing a guy the size of a building walking around would be cool (Giant Man).
As far as the issue of Captain America wielding Mjolnir goes, I think Terror Inc. is onto something. A quick little nod is all that needs. We don't need to see Cap doing all of Thor's fancy hammer-work.
However, for the record, I wouldn't be at all disappointed if we didn't see it at all.
I have a feeling that Cap will wield Mjolnir during the final battle against Thanos. I have no doubt that they'll recreate the scene from the comics where Cap is the last one standing, but I think they'll spice it up a little by shocking the general audience with Cap picking up the hammer.
Haha I forgot I posted this. Broke the scoop before LR did.
I'd love to see Cap late in the movie be able to lift and wield it for just a second to save Thor and then give it back to him.
If I had it my way. Basically I wouldnt want to see a roster with focus on more than 8 Avengers in one film. I want more interaction between the current roster, rather than just focusing on adding more and more. And they cycle through Avengers for situational necessity.
Avengers 3 pt 1
Avengers 3 pt 2
Avengers has the cast signed on for 3 Avengers films, 3 solo films, and at least 1 or 2 or 3 cameos. So I am guessing that, like Downey Jr., Evans, Hemsworth, Johansson, Renner, they will all leave as soon as their contracts are up. Sure some might stick around, but the majority will leave. And there are so many Avengers that they wouldn't need to recast, and so many Avengers and so many villains and so many stories, that I would HATE if they ended the films at Avengers 3. So my idea has always been that they should just bring in more Avengers when the others leave. But stagger the rotation to that its not like all the originals are gone, now lets bring in the new guys. Its more like Law and Order where the new guys come in while the originals are still there.
So Avengers 1:
Captain America, Iron Man, Thor, Hulk, Hawkeye, Black Widow, Nick Fury, Maria Hill
Captain America, Iron Man, Thor, Hulk, Hawkeye, Black Widow, maybe Fury, maybe Hill, and Ant Man and Wasp.
Versus (lets say): Thanos
Captain America, Iron Man, Thor, Hulk, Hawkeye, Black Widow, maybe Fury, maybe Hill, and Ant Man and Wasp, and Falcon
Versus (lets say): Ultron
Ant Man and Wasp, Falcon, Carol Danvers/Captain Marvel, She-Hulk, Mocking Bird, Vision, maybe Wonder Man
Versus (Lets say): Kang the Conquerer
Falcon, Carol Danvers/Captain Marvel, She-Hulk, Mocking Bird, Vision, Wonder Man, Black Panther, Bucky,
Versus (maybe): Namor
Carol Danvers/Captain Marvel, She-Hulk, Mocking Bird, Vision, Wonder Man, Black Panther, Bucky, Namor
Versus (I don't know): Grimm Reaper and an army of the dead
Vision, Black Panther, Bucky, Namor, Scott Lang/Ant Man, Spider-Woman, Valkyrie, Luke Cage
Versus (maybe): Korvac (spelling?)
Vision, Namor, Scott Lang/Ant Man, Spider-Woman, Valkyrie, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, Beast
Versus (how about): Baron Zemo and the Masters of Evil
In my opinion the films could go on and on and on without recasting anyone. This is just my very simple example. Who is to say that one guy, Renner maybe, wont want to stay and be Hawkeye for another 2 Avenger films. Or maybe Hemsworth will want to return around Avengers 6. And it wouldn't be like these guys would just pop up out of nowhere. I see many starting out in solo films like the originals did and like Ant Man will be doing soon. So Danvers/Marvel, or Black Panther will rise from solo films. Falcon and Bucky will first be seen in the Captain America films. And characters like Vision or Namor will come from the Avengers films themselves. And others can be introduced without much intro, like She-Hulk or Valkyrie. And of coarse the choices of who would be an Avenger and when would be based on multiple factors, who has a solo film, or who the enemy they are facing is (like maybe the Avengers face the Masters of Evil and gain Wonder Man as a member in the end or maybe they fight Ultron and gain the Vision as an Avenger), and who fits best into the Marvel MU at the moment. For example, maybe the team begins to be more and more former villains, or maybe the MU Earth becomes more aware of aliens and the team has more cosmic heroes. Or maybe they want the team to be more international, so they have Bucky Cap (America), Black Panther (Africa), Captain Britain (England), Wolverine (Canada), and others, on the same team.
AND they can and probably will eventually recast characters like Captain America and Stark.
Still, and to make a LONG story shorter, I think if they can stagger the roster rotation, they can slowly change the cast and keep the films going without long into the multiple digits.
My roster change idea also includes bigger ideas, like Marvel movie studios doing 15 minutes of previews ahead of most feature films to introduce some characters they sort of want to experiment with and test on the public. So maybe thats where we could first see Luke Cage and Iron Fist.
Now I will stop before I start to ramble more than I am.
Artistsean, your schedule works fine for comic books; for a movie series, not so much.
As a gentle reality check, here's a reminder of what years your Avenger sequels would likely release, and the age of the "Big Six" (RDJ, Evans, Hemsworth, Ruffalo, Scarjo, Renner) in each:
1 (2012): 47, 30, 28, 44, 27, 41
2 (2015): 50, 33, 31, 47, 30, 44
3 (2018): 53, 36, 34, 50, 33, 47
4 (2021): 56, 39, 37, 53, 36, 50
5 (2024): 59, 42, 40, 56, 39, 53
6 (2027): 62, 45, 43, 59, 42, 56
7 (2030): 65, 48, 46, 62, 45, 59
8 (2033): 68, 51, 49, 65, 48, 62
This just goes to show how quickly the cast will age (no one left in their 20s, even as early as Avengers 2), and thus how quickly some or all of them are likely to fall off the pop culture radar. It also shows how pressed for time Joss and Marvel are to actually add new members in a timely fashion. Not to pick on your prognostications specifically, but if they *did* use your schedule, for instance, Black Panther wouldn't even show up until 2024.
The key is to strike while the iron is hot. Time is definitely of the essence here.
I don't think they're worried about them falling off the pop culture radar. They're probably looking to recast a good amount of them after A3 though. No way Evans is returning, that's the extent to which I see RDJ staying as Iron Man, and it's doubtful that Hemsworth and ScarJo return either. Sam Jackson's contract ends at A3 as well, but he's such a team player for this kind of stuff, I can see him resigning for more films.
So they'll possibly be replacing 6 members of the original cast after A3 (2018).
And that is what my idea is about. By 2018 they will need to replace them, and that could seriously stop the franchise in their tracks. If All the originals are gone and then suddenly replaced with brand new faces, it might really hurt the films and turn off some viewers. And I would hate for them to miss the opportunity to bring in new Avengers we may not see otherwise by simply recasting the original 6, a new actor playing Captaiin America and Iron Man and Thor, etc. Instead they could simply bring in new characters like Ant Man, Wasp, Captain Marvel, Black Panther, Wonder Man, Vision, Tigra, Hercules, Valkyrie, and so on and so on.
I was probably not clear, thinking it in my head but maybe not vocalizing it. The Rosters I chose were at random, just to show there are no shortage or important Avengers they could use without having to recast the original 6. I don't mean they MUST include Carol Davners in the 4th Avengers film. She could maybe show up in Avengers 7 for all I know. I am also not saying they wouldn't recast anyone either, maybe Avengers 5 includes a recasted Tony Stark and Bruce Banner. All I am saying is that there are SO MANY Avengers (Wikipedia lists over 100 Avengers) in the comics to chose from that they wouldn't have to recast. Their ages wouldn't really play into my idea either, since the majority of the actors wouldn't only stick around for about 3 solo films and 3 Avenges films and maybe 3 cameos. And then like the original 6, they'd be out. by the time they would get too old for the part they would be out of the films anyway. Captain America wouldn't be in Avengers 6 at all. By that time maybe Steve has retired being Captain America and passed it down to Bucky, and by that time maybe Bucky has left the franchise as well. So by Avengers 6 we would get a completely different roster than Avenger 1 had, but the staggered cast rotation would be hopefully subtle enough that the audience wont notice. And if the original actors felt like returning they could be recast or adjust the character for the age. Like maybe Steve started aging after he got unfrozen. But the age wouldn't really need to be a factor. And that is why the cast would HAVE to be staggered, with maybe 2 Avengers added, so that when the original 6 leave the audience still has at leasts 2 that were introduced in a previous film. So while Evans and Downy Jr., and the rest are gone, the public would still have Ant Man and the Wasp (previously introduced to the public in Avengers 2 or 3) so that they wont feel a total shock to their systems with loosing all the Avengers at once.
Ant Man and Wasp would stick around for at the very least 3 Avengers films. That would be at the very least 1 film after the original cast has left, and maybe 2 films even. I say at the very least because who is to say the actor who plays Wasp wont want to stay for 6 Avenger films, or something. My idea is a very very basic blueprint. And you are right, time is of the essence, my idea only works if they begin the staggering or the rotating cast as soon as they can, like Avengers 2 if possible. They will already have Falcon and Winter Soldier from Captain America 2, and War Machine/Iron Patriot from Iron Man 3, and maybe Ant Man and WAsp when Wright is finished with Ant Man.
So the basic idea is, after the actors who sign up for the Avengers' contracts are up new actors playing new Avengers are brought in, but to ensure that the public is ok the rotation of the roster is staggered like Law and Order style so that the audience always has at least 2-3 familiar faces to help them adjust to the new faces.
There would, of coarse, be random elements that would effect this, such as who was cast and what characters they played, the story the Avengers film is telling at the time, whether or not the actor wanted to stay past their contract, etc.
Characters like the Hulk have already sort of been grandfathered into the recasting Banner part. So maybe they could always have a Hulk if they wanted. And maybe they could always have a Vision once he was introduced. Maybe by the time Tony Stark is recast they can bring him into the Avengers again. Maybe the Avengers becomes international like I mentioned earlier and they want to bring in characters from around the world. Or maybe Certain actors who played the characters in the past, and are still young enough to do it, want to return as that character.
And maybe they start the 15 minute shorts before each Marvel film and certain characters test so well they want to bring them in, like Luke Cage or Moon Knight.
Perhaps some characters solo films don't do so well, but others do. So while maybe Captain Marvel's film does well, the Dr. Strange movie doesn't and they use her and leave him out.
In Ant Man I think that Pym should have two lab assistants named Dr. Bill Foster and Scott Lang. And that Pym should leave his Ant Man persona behind and become Giant Man. And Lang picks up the mantel and becomes Ant Man. And once Pym leaves Giant Man for Yellow Jacket, Foster becomes the new Ant Man. And once the actor playing Pym leaves the movies the actors who play Lang and Foster could step in to replace him in the Ant Man franchise and the Avengers films.
There are a variety of factors that would effect the films.
But my main idea is that, whatever characters from the Avengers comics they bring into the movies, they could feesibly keep the films going when the original actor's contracts expire. So instead of relaunching the whole franchise like they did with Spider-Man, they could just keep the films going with new Avengers. But to do this they need to start staggering the roster while the current original cast is still there.
Bring in characters like Ant Man and Wasp ASAP, now. Introduce some characters into the background that could effect the lineup later, like SHIELD/SWORD agent Carol Danvers.
let me know if I am still unclear on any part of my idea, I get the feeling that I get so into my ideas that I forget to post all the elements of them. Leave some stuff out or talk around them or even vaguely reference them without stating them outright.