Justice League Ciaran Hinds is Steppenwolf

[souperman]

thank you.

i did not recognize her from the avatar.

but i know who she is...


ok back to Steppenwolf discussion.
is that recent leaked list of deleted scenes real?

because it said the original cut showed more of Steppenwolf's motivations - the motherboxes held the essence of Heggra (hence he keeps calling them Mother) and he was trying to unleash their combined power so he can finally usurp Darkseid.

^ that sounds way better and more deep than the generic alien invasion plot we got.

What is this Heggra essence of which you speak?

 

[chintai80]

What is this Heggra essence of which you speak?

someone on reddit listed about 20+ deleted/longer scenes from the movie they were supposedly shown.

one of them supposedly shows steppenwolf's motivation - the motherboxes are actually holding his mother's essence/spirit (Heggra - the old queen of apokolips).

combining them would unleash her power. and it would grant steppenwolf an upper hand against Darkseid (Ciaran Hinds did mention in an interview that steppenwolf was trying to break free from DS's slavery)

but i heard this list was debunked. so not sure how real or not it is.

 

[souperman]

someone on reddit listed about 20+ deleted/longer scenes from the movie they were supposedly shown.

one of them supposedly shows steppenwolf's motivation - the motherboxes are actually holding his mother's essence/spirit (Heggra - the old queen of apokolips).

combining them would unleash her power. and it would grant steppenwolf an upper hand against Darkseid (Ciaran Hinds did mention in an interview that steppenwolf was trying to break free from DS's slavery)

but i heard this list was debunked. so not sure how real or not it is.

Sounds pretty reasonable considering the way he acted towards them...

Thanks!

 

[Mani-Man]

someone on reddit listed about 20+ deleted/longer scenes from the movie they were supposedly shown.

one of them supposedly shows steppenwolf's motivation - the motherboxes are actually holding his mother's essence/spirit (Heggra - the old queen of apokolips).

combining them would unleash her power. and it would grant steppenwolf an upper hand against Darkseid (Ciaran Hinds did mention in an interview that steppenwolf was trying to break free from DS's slavery)

but i heard this list was debunked. so not sure how real or not it is.

That would have actually helped the character more.
As it was, Steppenwolf was your typical one dimensional Villian built for the group to beat.

 

[The_Manhunter]

I wasn't totally impressed.
I found Lex to be a better villain than Steppenwolf.
Lex was able to bring Superman to his knees. Steppenwolf could not.

Which is why people can feel however they want to about Jesse,
but I maintain the position of his Lex Luthor being a really great villain.

Well the point of Steppenwolf wasn't to bring Superman to his knees, whereas that was the whole reason BvS had Lex as the villain. They selected a villain that would require the League to come together and in my opinion it worked. Having say a Darkseid-level threat would not have worked in this film because the original 5 Leaguers clearly could not have even defeated Doomsday, let alone Darkseid.

Just how I see it.

 

[Cobblepot]

It would have helped tremendously if they really showed Steppenwolf as a world wide threat to humanity/earth. Zod felt like a bigger threat with all his world engines around the globe than Steppenwolf with his entire army in the middle of nowhere. They werent even a threat to a russian familie in the midst of it.
BTW I loved how he sneakely got a away with the third MB. Nobody seemed to care anymore, that didn;t help the suspense either.

It feels like some pivotal scenes were cut...

 

[chintai80]

It would have helped tremendously if they really showed Steppenwolf as a world wide threat to humanity/earth. Zod felt like a bigger threat with all his world engines around the globe than Steppenwolf with his entire army in the middle of nowhere. They werent even a threat to a russian familie in the midst of it.
BTW I loved how he sneakely got a away with the third MB. Nobody seemed to care anymore, that didn;t help the suspense either.

It feels like some pivotal scenes were cut...

lol yea i thought that was funny too.

this was steppenwolf when he stole the 3rd motherbox right under the team's nose at heroes park:

 

[TheRedWraith]

It would have helped tremendously if they really showed Steppenwolf as a world wide threat to humanity/earth. Zod felt like a bigger threat with all his world engines around the globe than Steppenwolf with his entire army in the middle of nowhere. They werent even a threat to a russian familie in the midst of it.
BTW I loved how he sneakely got a away with the third MB. Nobody seemed to care anymore, that didn;t help the suspense either.

It feels like some pivotal scenes were cut...

and I'd bet that in reshooting the third act they also removed much of his menace and might from the fight.

 

[The Guard]

I mean he's pretty menacing on his own. He kills innocent people, he rips Cyborg in half...

I think there's some hyperbole about Steppenwolf's quality as a villain. He's not the greatest villain ever, but he's serviceable. He definitely needed a bit more backstory/fleshing out, but he’s not a completely shallow character either. Hinds did a very nice job of voicing him.

He's a bit inaccessible though. There needed to be a scene where he has a dialogue with someone from the league, or someone in his ranks...we needed to see a hint vulnerability from him before the end of the film.

The “desperate to get home” thing is fairly unique. He’s not conquering Earth for the sake of it…he’s atoning for past failures, which the film delves into in grand fashion with the flashback, and he’s doggedly determined to do so. The way he's sort of religiously into the Mother Box technology is also kind of interesting, if a bit over the top. Not sure if I buy the "Heggra" rumors about why he's talking to the box. Especially since Heggra is his sister in the mythology, not his mother.

I can't believe there are complaints about his formidability. He's an absolute badass in pretty much every sequence he's involved in. Clearly highly skiled and incredibly powerful.

I would have liked to have seen some more interaction between him and the parademons throughout the film, but they were mostly just cannon fodder. I do think the “lone aggressor” thing was the point. He was on his own, as he’d essentially been exhiled. By the end of the movie, he might as well be begging to come home. He’s essentially a rogue terrorist cell of a larger group trying to make good.

That’s why the forces of Apokolips show up via a Boom Tube and operate in secret instead of bringing in giant warships. This is Steppenwolf and his forces, not Apokolips itself invading. The attack on Earth was clearly a last ditch effort on Steppenwolf’s part. You can see his building fantaticism and desperation as the movie progresses.

I thought it was interesting that they chose to use “Unity”, instead of "Anti-Life" or some other force. "Unity", in the DC animated Universe is a hive-mind with tentacles. And lo and behold, the final sequence involved something very much resembling tentacles (I like to think it's a reference to Starro, myself, but it probably wasn't).

Visually, he looks ok. Best CGI ever? No. Terrible CGI? No. He’s clearly not human, so when he speaks, his face doesn’t move like a human’s does. It’s less pliable, sort of craggy and rocky. I thought he meshed ok with his surroundings and interacted well with the other Leaguers.

They were sort of sowing the seeds for Darkseid’s methods. It’s pretty clear that WB is waiting to see what Marvel does with Thanos before moving forward with Darkseid, which is the safe play, though part of me wishes they'd just gone ahead and used Darkseid.

Still, Darkseid, if we ever see him, will be a lot more than just an invader of Earth when he shows up. His threat will likely be cosmic, involve the Green Lantern Corps, New Gods, etc.

I do think that once you get into Apokolips, Darkseid, etc, you have to devote a decent amount of time to those story elements. That gets problematic. You cannot drop Apokolips/Darkseid/New Genesis as a concept into a story and then not develop it. Which is probably why this was originally conceived as two films. So using a character that requires less investment, like Steppenwolf, and containing the "history" to his story was probably the smart move.

 

[Greens]

I mean he's pretty menacing on his own. He kills innocent people, he rips Cyborg in half...

Just because a character does certain things doesn't mean their actions have any impact on the viewer. Yeah, technically he was formidable... but the movie did a **** job of conveying that. I felt nothing as he was threatening those people. His scenes were devoid of any tension or gravitas. The lines they gave him were taken right from the "So You Want To Be A Cliche Henchman Promoted To Main Villain" playbook, he looked like a straight up videogame character sometimes.

He just kind of comes and goes, doing whatever the hell when he's not on screen. He almost cartoonishly swoops in to steal the last motherbox because the League kind of forgot about it. The final battle is a huge anti-climax because apparently if you take away his axe he's absolutely worthless. "oh, it's over?" was my reaction

 

[souperman]

I am sure a lot was cut that could have made it all work a bit better. I also feel they "could" have ended it with a small tease of a cliffhanger. Maybe something like this...

After Steppenwolf's ax is broken, he shouts "this is not possible" etc. "This world is mine" . "It is my (birth) right".! (should be in close-up)

...A booming voice is heard echoing from everywhere.

"Enough!"

Cut to reactions from JL team and Steppenwolf. Looking around for the source of the Voice which permeates the atmosphere.

"This world is not yours!... It belongs to me!. You have failed me for the last time...uncle ! "

Steppenwolf looks up and yells "No! "

A boom tube appears above Steppenwolf as the parademons attack Steppenwolf and force him into the tube and back to apocalypse. His helmet falls to the ground.

Flash asks "eh...hey guys,- who the was that? "

Wonder woman replies. "That... was Darkseid." "This is not over yet"

Cut to the team looking concerned.

fade to ...

just an idea that I think works within the framework.

 

[The Guard]

Just because a character does certain things doesn't mean their actions have any impact on the viewer. Yeah, technically he was formidable... but the movie did a **** job of conveying that. I felt nothing as he was threatening those people. His scenes were devoid of any tension or gravitas. The lines they gave him were taken right from the "So You Want To Be A Cliche Henchman Promoted To Main Villain" playbook, he looked like a straight up videogame character sometimes.

He just kind of comes and goes, doing whatever the hell when he's not on screen. He almost cartoonishly swoops in to steal the last motherbox because the League kind of forgot about it. The final battle is a huge anti-climax because apparently if you take away his axe he's absolutely worthless. "oh, it's over?" was my reaction

I would think that the things a character does would absolutely impact how scary or intimidating he comes across as...regardless of whether an individual audience member has an actual emotional reaction to them. There's no one approach that will create an emotional reaction in everyone, so that's not a good measuring stick to use with regard to how well a character's elements are executed.

I'm not scared of Steppenwolf because I know it's a superhero movie and I know he's not real, but there's plenty there in the film for me to say that yes, he's an intimidating, skilled, cruel fellow, and the people around him would think so too.

The removal of his axe is an act of symbolism before his defeat, not the sole reason for it. His defeat comes when he experiences doubt and fear as a result of the league's successful destruction of his plan and apparent superiority, and his own minions turn on him as a result.

 

[chintai80]

supposedly there was going to be more backstory bout his axe and how its personally tied to his very being being and power.

like thor and his hammer.

that would explain why he started freaking out once it was destroyed by WW.

but the explanation for all that got cut out from the movie.

 

[The Guard]

supposedly there was going to be more backstory bout his axe and how its personally tied to his very being being and power.

like thor and his hammer.

that would explain why he started freaking out once it was destroyed by WW.

but the explanation for all that got cut out from the movie.

Even without that, the axe is clearly the symbol of his power within the film.

When he loses it, he symbolically and perhaps literally loses his power.

He's essentially an insecure character who masks his insecurity with violence and cruelty, and he's very much hiding behind his weapon of war.

 

[souperman]

Just because a character does certain things doesn't mean their actions have any impact on the viewer. Yeah, technically he was formidable... but the movie did a **** job of conveying that. I felt nothing as he was threatening those people. His scenes were devoid of any tension or gravitas. The lines they gave him were taken right from the "So You Want To Be A Cliche Henchman Promoted To Main Villain" playbook, he looked like a straight up videogame character sometimes.

He just kind of comes and goes, doing whatever the hell when he's not on screen. He almost cartoonishly swoops in to steal the last motherbox because the League kind of forgot about it. The final battle is a huge anti-climax because apparently if you take away his axe he's absolutely worthless. "oh, it's over?" was my reaction

You're not wrong. I think the elements are there, they were just not put together in a dramatic way to give him the tensions and foreboding that was needed.

Maybe because he was originally the second fiddle he was painted a little lighter. He acted a bit like a wise-guy, being very "clever" in his repartee. "you will love me....all of you will", etc.

He also was acting more like a thief rather than a conqueror, as Diana said, not wanting to be defeated again...

The short scene I posted may have helped explain this a bit as well.? Without changing much.

 

[Greens]

I would think that the things a character does would absolutely impact how scary or intimidating he comes across as...regardless of whether an individual audience member has an actual emotional reaction to them. There's no one approach that will create an emotional reaction in everyone, so that's not a good measuring stick to use with regard to how well a character's elements are executed.

I'm not scared of Steppenwolf because I know it's a superhero movie and I know he's not real, but there's plenty there in the film for me to say that yes, he's an intimidating, skilled, cruel fellow, and the people around him would think so too.

The removal of his axe is an act of symbolism before his defeat, not the sole reason for it. His defeat comes when he experiences doubt and fear as a result of the league's successful destruction of his plan and apparent superiority, and his own minions turn on him as a result.

There's more to a movie than just putting a character in front of a camera to have him do stuff. The emotional impact comes from the execution (acting, cinematography, score, writing, sound design), and that was sorely lacking in this movie. There is just nothing to it. There are no scenes I really want to revisit. The way it's edited and shot, it feels like a farce of a movie. It doesn't flow organically, it doesn't do anything particularly exciting. Steppenwolf as a villain isn't terrible but he's utterly uninteresting. Everything he says makes me roll my eyes and I just don't give a **** about any of it.

 

[Arachnerd]

Also, for someone who called himself "The End of Worlds", he wasn't really formidable either.

 

[The Guard]

Also, for someone who called himself "The End of Worlds", he wasn't really formidable either.

He was, though. Look what he does to the Amazons, trained warriors.

He wasn't formidable enough.

And he knew it.

"The End of Worlds" is bluster. Maybe once he was a great ender of worlds...not anymore.

That's why he was sneaking around instead of waging a frontal assault and hiding in remote corners of the world.

 

[Greens]

Also, for someone who called himself "The End of Worlds", he wasn't really formidable either.

He managed to fill up an abandoned city with weird purple vines. I'd give that a C-.

 

[Arachnerd]

He was, though. Look what he does to the Amazons, trained warriors.

He wasn't formidable enough.

And he knew it.

"The End of Worlds" is bluster. Maybe once he was a great ender of worlds...not anymore.

That's why he was sneaking around instead of waging a frontal assault.

The Amazon sequence was the closest thing he came to being formidable. Getting his a** whooped by Superman who had previously struggled to fight against Zod and Doomsday is a complete and utter embarrassment.

 

[chintai80]

yea, i think thats probably my major beef w/ the end fight. he needed to give superman a bit more a challenge.

i know some people liked it that superman totally dominated that fight - makes superman seem more badass that way.

but i wanted to see a more back and forth between these two "gods"

 

[The Guard]

The Amazon sequence was the closest thing he came to being formidable. Getting his a** whooped by Superman who had previously struggled to fight against Zod and Doomsday is a complete and utter embarrassment.

He was formidable against the other heroes, too.

 

[Greens]

but i wanted to see a more back and forth between these two "gods"

I know the Doomsday battle gets a lot of **** thrown its way, but the "alien vs. alien" thing was handled way better there. The fight had weight to it. The way it was shot, scored. It felt consequential, like it actually mattered. What we got here was a live action cartoon that was over in two seconds.

 

[The Guard]

I know the Doomsday battle gets a lot of **** thrown its way, but the "alien vs. alien" thing was handled way better there. The fight had weight to it. The way it was shot, scored. It felt consequential, like it actually mattered. What we got here was a live action cartoon that was over in two seconds.

One wonders if that is because of all the constant whining about "endless battles" after MOS and BVS.

Must explore further.

 

[Arachnerd]

I never really minded those battles, personally. Felt they had the perfect duration.

The League's battle with Steppy at the end was barely six minutes at best.