Justice League Ciaran Hinds is Steppenwolf

[heatvision38]

That makes no sense.

They could have added humor into battle sequences via reshoots, and they already did so, so why in this instance, would they not have? Why would they cut entire expense action sequences just to add humor?

Because they were overcorrecting.

You are right, it doesn't make sense. This is the world we live in when it comes to how WB has handled the DC movie properties.

 

[heatvision38]

yup. i thought he was cool villian until the 3rd act where he's just that...a punching bag for superman.

but lot of the dceu movies, imo, have had weak final boss battles.
the only one i fully enjoyed was MOS - superman vs zod.
all the other dc movies have better 2nd acts vs 3rd acts.

But at least the third acts of WW and BvS have stakes and feel grand. With JL, it just sort of peters out.

 

[The Guard]

WSJ reported that KT wanted this film to be under 2 hours. Then we get a movie that is literally 1 minute shy of two hours. You don't think they cut a lot of stuff out of the movie?

I think you need to ask yourself: After complaints about BVS' length and pacing, would WB really have mandated or allowed a 2 and a half hour cut of JUSTICE LEAGUE, or whether they would have allowed some of the rumored types of deleted scenes to be in JUSTICE LEAGUE, given major complaints about scenes of that type in BVS.

I think you need to ask, if the movie was originally planned to be shorter, say 2:15, or 2:20, just how much extra stuff was in the film, and how effective would that stuff have been in the narrative?

And I think you need to look at the message that was coming from WB and the creators and actors after BVS; namely that they were accelerating the hope and optimism (translation: more fun, less ponderous navel gazing) and that the next film would be simpler, and more straightforward.

Heck, look at BvS, lots was cut out of the TC. You are trying to apply logic to what WB has been doing with the DCEU, but they have been following their own logic.

I'm not sure what that means.

They didn't cut three main characters story arcs and multiple battle sequences out of the theatrical cut in BVS. They cut connective tissue type stuff. What's being implied when it comes to JUSTICE LEAGUE is they cut multiple backstories, at least one grand battle sequence, and effects-heavy dream sequences.

I think some of you are approaching this from the standpoint of an unrealistic perception of what the film likely WAS prior to WB's "meddling" during filming.

We can make some educated guesses about what was actually shot for this film based on trailers and the existing film, but I think the perception people have now is based on a plethora of rumors, many of which have proven to be outright false.

The tangible deleted scenes that we know existed are either brief action/power sequences that are not a deep dive into the origins of the characters, the Atlantis scene with Vulko which would flesh out the politics of Atlantis a bit, Superman in the cave/black suit, a different version of the Kent farm scene, and potentially the League VS Superman battle sequence. Not too many of these significantly alter the narrative of the existing film, near as I can tell. They feature alternate dialogue, and in the case of the Vulko scene, would serve as a further AQUAMAN tease.

But hey, believe what you want.

 

[heatvision38]

I think you need to ask yourself: After complaints about BVS' length and pacing, would WB really have mandated or allowed a 2 and a half hour cut of JUSTICE LEAGUE, or whether they would have allowed some of the rumored types of deleted scenes to be in JUSTICE LEAGUE, given major complaints about scenes of that type in BVS.

I think you need to ask, if the movie was originally planned to be shorter, say 2:15, or 2:20, just how much extra stuff was in the film, and how effective would that stuff have been in the narrative?

And I think you need to look at the message that was coming from WB and the creators and actors after BVS; namely that they were accelerating the hope and optimism (translation: more fun, less ponderous navel gazing) and that the next film would be simpler, and more straightforward.



I'm not sure what that means.

They didn't cut three main characters story arcs and multiple battle sequences out of the theatrical cut in BVS. They cut connective tissue type stuff. What's being implied when it comes to JUSTICE LEAGUE is they cut multiple backstories, at least one grand battle sequence, and effects-heavy dream sequences.

I think some of you are approaching this from the standpoint of an unrealistic perception of what the film likely WAS prior to WB's "meddling" during filming.

We can make some educated guesses about what was actually shot for this film based on trailers and the existing film, but I think the perception people have now is based on a plethora of rumors, many of which have proven to be outright false.

The tangible deleted scenes that we know existed are either brief action/power sequences that are not a deep dive into the origins of the characters, the Atlantis scene with Vulko which would flesh out the politics of Atlantis a bit, Superman in the cave/black suit, a different version of the Kent farm scene, and potentially the League VS Superman battle sequence. Not too many of these significantly alter the narrative of the existing film, near as I can tell. They feature alternate dialogue, and in the case of the Vulko scene, would serve as a further AQUAMAN tease.

But hey, believe what you want.

You can have a 2.5 hour movie that moves fast and a 2 hr movie that moves slowly. It's all in the editing and storytelling. And for JL, I am not even talking about having to do backstories on Cyborg or Aquaman. JL went the extreme opposite direction and felt rushed and shallow. It's not what I believe, it's my viewpoint, so please leave out the condescension. We can have a discussion without it.

 

[routhman]

@TheGuard

Frankly, you’re overzealously defending WB’s choices for JL based on nothing more than your contempt for Snyder.

You keep making these arguments, again and again, that aren’t based on fact, but instead on your blind faith that WB’s choices must have been better than Snyder’s... because you say so.

It’s a very silly, pointless, perpetually cyclic argument, because at the end of the day, the only thing we know for certain is that BvS UC is more or less universally accepted as better than BvS TC, and that is not enough information to conclude either way whether WB made the right choices on JL.

So as fast you’re holding to your convictions, it’s pretty transparent that your entire premise is based on no facts at all. So why continue to argue it so fervently?

Some people wanted to see Zack’s cut. You have no evidence that suggests these people wouldn’t be happier with that cut. And these people have no evidence that they would be happier with the cut.

That’s it. End of story.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

yup. i thought he was cool villian until the 3rd act where he's just that...a punching bag for superman.

but lot of the dceu movies, imo, have had weak final boss battles.
the only one i fully enjoyed was MOS - superman vs zod.
all the other dc movies have better 2nd acts vs 3rd acts.

I must say the BvS finale has grown in me hugely over time, I really enjoy it. But yeah,I know what you mean about the 3rd acts. JL could quite possible be the lamest of them all though.

First hour Steppenwolf was great, then they just forget about him and when he does come back into the picture he seems weaker and less formidable.

 

[idiot09]

Because they were overcorrecting.

You are right, it doesn't make sense. This is the world we live in when it comes to how WB has handled the DC movie properties.

Yep.

Also about how much WB might have changed this movie, lets assume Zack's cut was 2hrs20mins long. Not too long, not too short. In JL's final cut, Joss has atleast 40mins of footage. So they basically cut over 60mins of footage Snyder shot, probably even more.

So its not that wild to assume his movie was quite different, and for fans of the previous movies, much better. Also considering it was a product of one man's vision, and not a frankenstein product, it would have been better for others as well.

 

[The Guard]

You can have a 2.5 hour movie that moves fast and a 2 hr movie that moves slowly. It's all in the editing and storytelling. And for JL, I am not even talking about having to do backstories on Cyborg or Aquaman. JL went the extreme opposite direction and felt rushed and shallow. It's not what I believe, it's my viewpoint, so please leave out the condescension. We can have a discussion without it.

I'm not just talking about the pacing. I'm talking about the amount of information that people seem to believe was in this film, based on rumor. At some point, there is no force on Earth that can edit that much information into a remotely coherent story.

I already said you are welcome to believe what you want. I'm not being condescending. I have not belitted you, and I have not indicated any superiority on my own part. I'm simply putting forth my own thoughts on the matter.

 

[The Guard]

@TheGuard

Frankly, you’re overzealously defending WB’s choices for JL based on nothing more than your contempt for Snyder.

Contempt for Snyder? You clearly don't know me at all.

Which choices have I overzealously defended, exactly?

You keep making these arguments, again and again, that aren’t based on fact, but instead on your blind faith that WB’s choices must have been better than Snyder’s... because you say so.

Which arguments, exactly?

I have never once said that WB's choices were better than Snyder's would have been. Show me where I have, please.

My conversation has been about what kind of content was realistically in the film, not about the quality of one version of the film over the other.

It’s a very silly, pointless, perpetually cyclic argument, because at the end of the day, the only thing we know for certain is that BvS UC is more or less universally accepted as better than BvS TC, and that is not enough information to conclude either way whether WB made the right choices on JL.

Going to be honest...I don't appreciate your use of a bunch of negative adjectives to describe my point of view.

That said, I have made no value judgement as to which version was better. I'm not going to assume I know anything about Snyder's film, since I don't know everything that it contained.

So as fast you’re holding to your convictions, it’s pretty transparent that your entire premise is based on no facts at all. So why continue to argue it so fervently?

Which premise are you referring to?

What exactly is the issue with me discussing something fervently (enthustiastically and passionately)? I'm simply having a discussion. This is the way I communicate. Longwinded, with a discussion of various aspects of a film and its production.

I have dealt in pretty much nothing but what we can actually see is in the final film, and what we know was in the film at one time, or was a deleted scene. Based on tangible footage, what creators and actors have said, not rumors from "insiders". I'm actually pretty much only dealing in facts here.

Some people wanted to see Zack’s cut. You have no evidence that suggests these people wouldn’t be happier with that cut. And these people have no evidence that they would be happier with the cut.

I have not said that anyone wouldn't be happier with that cut.

Show me where I have.

 

[jfurioso]

But if the league struggles with SW how are they going to face and defeat Darkseid?

Well, that is how you build suspense.

As to how to do it? With ingenuity. Teamwork. Smarts. The best stories never defeat Darkseid physically, they instead render his plans moot and he prefers to back out. Or go Rock of Ages.

 

[The Guard]

Well, that is how you build suspense.

As to how to do it? With ingenuity. Teamwork. Smarts. The best stories never defeat Darkseid physically, they instead render his plans moot and he prefers to back out. Or go Rock of Ages.

To be fair, they ultimately didn't entirely Steppenwolf defeat physically in JUSTICE LEAGUE, though it's likely they would have. They stopped his plan, and his own soldiers turned on him.

 

[jfurioso]

To be fair, they ultimately didn't entirely Steppenwolf defeat physically in JUSTICE LEAGUE, though it's likely they would have. They stopped his plan, and his own soldiers turned on him.

Which was nonsense. Batman was shown kicking parademons down. Yet a bunch of them taking down someone of WW-power-level is silly, even if he had been knocked about.

 

[jfurioso]

I must say the BvS finale has grown in me hugely over time, I really enjoy it. But yeah,I know what you mean about the 3rd acts. JL could quite possible be the lamest of them all though.

First hour Steppenwolf was great, then they just forget about him and when he does come back into the picture he seems weaker and less formidable.

They were showing BvS on tv last night. My wife, who is an almost anti-comics person, sat watching it with rapt attention while having dinner.

 

[The Guard]

Which was nonsense. Batman was shown kicking parademons down. Yet a bunch of them taking down someone of WW-power-level is silly, even if he had been knocked about.

They never did "take him down", though. Hurt him, maybe. But he was sitting there with a swarm of them on him and still struggling when he was boomed away.

 

[jfurioso]

They never did "take him down", though. Hurt him, maybe. But he was sitting there with a swarm of them on him and still struggling when he was boomed away.

Still does not make sense. Parademons as shown on the movie should have been like gnats to him. Batman took them down in hand to hand. And he was far too panicky. It was like a morning cartoon effect, where you cannot have the heroes be violent and take out a villain definitely because it would look too harsh (or Snydery) for the lil' tykes, thus having his own troops turn against him. It was really a cliche thing to do. And who boomed him out? Himself? Someone off-screen who is never explained in the movie and we have to guess from general comic knowledge? It feels worse the more I think about it.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Still does not make sense. Parademons as shown on the movie should have been like gnats to him. Batman took them down in hand to hand. And he was far too panicky. It was like a morning cartoon effect, where you cannot have the heroes be violent and take out a villain definitely because it would look too harsh (or Snydery) for the lil' tykes, thus having his own troops turn against him. It was really a cliche thing to do. And who boomed him out? Himself? Someone off-screen who is never explained in the movie and we have to guess from general comic knowledge? It feels worse the more I think about it.

Agree with this, his demise was really poorly handled.

 

[The Guard]

Agree with this, his demise was really poorly handled.

Right. They probably should have just killed him.

Or...or...his space ship could have crashed and he could just deactivate for no apparent reason without explanation. That would have been cool.

 

[The Guard]

Edit.

 

[metaphysician]

But if the league struggles with SW how are they going to face and defeat Darkseid?

By shaming New Genesis into intervening, through their demonstration of nobility and heroism in the face of inevitable doom?

I don't mean this just as a joke, a solid thematic throughline could easily be "You can't win by fighting. That's impossible. But you can win by proving that Earth is worth saving." A battle that, ultimately, operates on the moral, rather than the physical, level.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Right. They probably should have just killed him.

Or...or...his space ship could have crashed and he could just deactivate for no apparent reason without explanation. That would have been cool.

Yeah, cause they are the only options

 

[The Guard]

Still does not make sense. Parademons as shown on the movie should have been like gnats to him. Batman took them down in hand to hand. And he was far too panicky. It was like a morning cartoon effect, where you cannot have the heroes be violent and take out a villain definitely because it would look too harsh (or Snydery) for the lil' tykes, thus having his own troops turn against him. It was really a cliche thing to do. And who boomed him out? Himself? Someone off-screen who is never explained in the movie and we have to guess from general comic knowledge? It feels worse the more I think about it.

I don't know about "gnats", but...while they were swarming him, he didn't exactly seem to be overpowered in my two viewings.

Everything is a cliche on some level. The truly cliche thing to do would have been to kill him, especially when we've seen two villains killed in the two previous movies.

Is it automatically a cartoon because the villain receives a justice that isn't death?

The troops didn't just turn on him...they turned on him in a fairly brutal fashion for a PG-13 movie. They weren't advancing menacingly here, they were biting, clawing, etc.

I think "Who boomed him out" is the point of the end of the sequence. It's a bit ambiguous, probably on purpose, so you wonder if he boomed himself out (which he'd been doing the entire film) or if someone else did.

I would have liked a Darkseid tease to add to that...or some discussion of what it meant by the league...but alas.

 

[The Guard]

By shaming New Genesis into intervening, through their demonstration of nobility and heroism in the face of inevitable doom?

I don't mean this just as a joke, a solid thematic throughline could easily be "You can't win by fighting. That's impossible. But you can win by proving that Earth is worth saving." A battle that, ultimately, operates on the moral, rather than the physical, level.

This. And by calling together even more heroes.

New Genesis...and the Green Lantern Corps.

 

[heatvision38]

I'm not just talking about the pacing. I'm talking about the amount of information that people seem to believe was in this film, based on rumor. At some point, there is no force on Earth that can edit that much information into a remotely coherent story.

I already said you are welcome to believe what you want. I'm not being condescending. I have not belitted you, and I have not indicated any superiority on my own part. I'm simply putting forth my own thoughts on the matter.

My apologies. Typically, when someone says, You can believe what you want," it's passive-aggressive. So that's how I took it. Good to know otherwise.

 

[dc_mos]

Justice League’s Steppenwolf Ciarán Hinds was not happy with the theatrical cut

https://www.reddit.com/r/DC_Cinemat...justice_leagues_steppenwolf_ciarán_hinds_was/

 

[Consona]

Justice League’s Steppenwolf Ciarán Hinds was not happy with the theatrical cut

https://www.reddit.com/r/DC_Cinemat...justice_leagues_steppenwolf_ciarán_hinds_was/

He just told me that he hopes that they release Zack’s cut. He was not happy with the theatrical cut

In a day or two, the photographer will ask the Justice League’s main cast on whether they want Snyder’s cut to be released.Stay tuned!

The situation is starting to be more juicy than a Latin American telenovela.