Cinematic Civil War:MCU vs DCCU - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 31

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[Greens]

I somewhat agree. I thought he was just good at first, but then the twist made him great (and enhanced the viewing experience the second time around).

I think the whole thing about his motivations being clear and easy to relate to is overblown. Yeah, there's the "**** rich people" thing that we can all get behind, but he also becomes an illegal arms dealer and manufacturer after he's kicked off a salvaging project. Overreaction much?

 

[Mjölnir]

I think the whole thing about his motivations being clear and easy to relate to is overblown. Yeah, there's the "**** rich people" thing that we can all get behind, but he also becomes an illegal arms dealer and manufacturer after he's kicked off a salvaging project. Overreaction much?

The overreaction part to a relatable issue is what makes them villains.

 

[First Avenger]

I agree with Kane,my second viewing of HC was a revelation. They simply knocked it out of the park with Spidey.

 

[Greens]

The overreaction part to a relatable issue is what makes them villains.

That's another thing, all of the sudden all of these guys are fine with selling weapons to criminals and indirectly causing destruction and death? The alternative was being out of a job for a few weeks. I know America's safety net sucks but damn.

 

[NotSoLongAgo]

That's another thing, all of the sudden all of these guys are fine with selling weapons to criminals and indirectly causing destruction and death? The alternative was being out of a job for a few weeks. I know America's safety net sucks but damn.

Being out of a job and being in debt for upgrading his equipment to handle the new york incident. The implication is that they start off doing it "for their families" and end up getting greedy. And it's movie logic, things have to be exaggerated for drama. That's just the game. You can pick holes in the reality of any villain or hero but if they're handled well enough thematically and fleshed out enough they still work.

 

[Boy Scout]

I think the whole thing about his motivations being clear and easy to relate to is overblown. Yeah, there's the "**** rich people" thing that we can all get behind, but he also becomes an illegal arms dealer and manufacturer after he's kicked off a salvaging project. Overreaction much?

Yeah, I didn't think his villainous turn was really justified.

 

[Iceman]

I agree with Kane,my second viewing of HC was a revelation. They simply knocked it out of the park with Spidey.

What improved on your 2nd viewing? I've only seen it once.

 

[Greens]

Being out of a job and being in debt for upgrading his equipment to handle the new york incident. The implication is that they start off doing it "for their families" and end up getting greedy. And it's movie logic, things have to be exaggerated for drama. That's just the game. You can pick holes in the reality of any villain or hero but if they're handled well enough thematically and fleshed out enough they still work.

The things I pointed out didn't bother me at all, mind you. I don't need villains to be entirely logical or relatable.

 

[DOBSON10]

Slightly late to the conversation because the thread closed and I had to re-write it, here's my thoughts/rankings on the Spider-Man villains...

1. Vulture - Michael Keaton Very good but not great villain. Admittedly I probably had too high of expectations because of how highly I think of Keaton's acting ability but thought they could have given him a bit more to chew on. One of the few sympathetic villains I actually liked (I don't care for sympathetic villains very much)

2. Dr. Curt Connors/Lizard - Rhys Ifans On the Connors side of the role I thought he was absolutely perfect. I didn't have any problems with the Lizard CGI like most do, looked good enough for me and I thought his few lines as Lizard were played well. The plan to turn the world into giant lizards was stupid but so are the motivations for pretty much every villain on this list except Vulture so Lizard falls firmly in the #2 spot for me.

3. Norman Osborn/Green Goblin - William Dafoe Had some very good moments as Norman Osborn but was just way too campy and the Power Rangers costume was pretty awful. The scenes of him talking to himself in the mirror and his death scene still make me cringe to this day even though when I see them again I know they are coming. The good Norman scenes, the few good Goblins scenes and the fact that none of the other villains on this list are any good puts him #3 on this list by a very comfortable margin.

4. Doc Ock - Alfred Molina Just a flat out boring villain (Not the villain itself but in this movie). Tentacles that take over his mind and decisions and make a 100% sane and decent man a supervillain was stupid. Looks wise he was pretty good but it was just a boring take on the character for me. WAY too sympathetic for a character that really isn't supposed to be.

5. Sandman - Thomas Hayden Church Another boring villain played by a dull actor. The CGI was pretty solid, well, at least in his creation scene and he wasn't as campy as the rest of the Raimi villains or the TASM2 villains, so that gets him this high on the list.

6. Harry Osborn/Green Goblin 2.0 - James Franco Decent motivations but another campy, bad performance, crap costume and predictable "twist" to side with Peter/Spider-Man in the end. Only this high because this list keeps getting worse from here.

7. Harry Osborn/Green Goblin - Dane Dehaan I thought he was really good as Harry until the scene where he asked Spider-Man for his blood, from that moment on it just goes down hill at lightening speed and Dehaan gets campy and more over the top as Goblin. Only thing getting him this high is his good scenes as Harry earlier in the movie and the fact that the next 3 villains are some of the worst ever put to screen in a comic book movie, though he's not that far behind them in that category.

8. Rhino - Paul Giamatti Just campy crap from start to finish, only thing really stopping him from being last on this list is the limited screentime compared to the next two abominations.

9. Eddie Brock/Venom - Topher Grace The greatest miscast in the history of comic book movies (Though Jesse Eisenberg as Lex is basically a tie for that dubious distinction). Only thing saving him from being last on this list (though it's basically a toss up as to which is worse) is that when Venom is not speaking and Topher's ridiculous face isn't sticking out, the CGI of Venom is actually pretty awesome.

10. Max Dillon/Electro - Jamie Foxx Another miscast from Day 1. From the campy, ridiculous and annoying Max Dillon, to the horrendous, predictable transformation scene, to the blatantly stupid motivations to become evil, to the over the top, forced and campy lines as Electro, this was just terrible.

 

[First Avenger]

What improved on your 2nd viewing? I've only seen it once.

The whole movie really. Characters,story,action,it all works so well,but above all,Tom Holland is just perfect in the role.Be it Peter or Spider-Man,his take made me smile from start to finish. And Keaton is just as great as Vulture,second best villain after Ock,I really hope we see more of him in the future.

 

[Boy Scout]

Being out of a job and being in debt for upgrading his equipment to handle the new york incident. The implication is that they start off doing it "for their families" and end up getting greedy. And it's movie logic, things have to be exaggerated for drama. That's just the game. You can pick holes in the reality of any villain or hero but if they're handled well enough thematically and fleshed out enough they still work.

My first thought was that he should've sued for reimbursement. He got screwed out of a contract, so I imagine he would've had a fairly solid case. Jumping immediately to supervillain-y was a huge stretch.

 

[Mjölnir]

That's another thing, all of the sudden all of these guys are fine with selling weapons to criminals and indirectly causing destruction and death? The alternative was being out of a job for a few weeks. I know America's safety net sucks but damn.

One can assume they haven't been the most moral people in their lives before that either, but there's of course a dose of super villain logic involved. As for the consequences of being screwed by the government, given the size of the contract they had it's pretty likely that losing the contract would have put the company out of business and left him in debt.

 

[Greens]

My first thought was that he should've sued for reimbursement. He got screwed out of a contract, so I imagine he would've had a fairly solid case. Jumping immediately to supervillain-y was a huge stretch.

I'm down for a Spider-Man legal drama film.

 

[Iceman]

The whole movie really. Characters,story,action,it all works so well,but above all,Tom Holland is just perfect in the role.Be it Peter or Spider-Man,his take made me smile from start to finish. And Keaton is just as great as Vulture,second best villain after Ock,I really hope we see more of him in the future.

Cool. Tom Holland is perfect yes. I hope I like everything else about the film next time even more.

 

[First Avenger]

Cool. Tom Holland is perfect yes. I hope I like everything else about the film next time even more.

Keep in mind that I'm someone who always needs a second viewing to really understand my feelings about movies,so that might feel different for someone else.

 

[Johnny-Oh]

My Spider-Man villains ranking:

1. Doc Ock
2. Green Goblin
3. Vulture
4. New Goblin
5. Sandman
6. Venom
7. Lizard
8. Electro
9. Green Goblin(Dehaan's version)

Edit: OMG I forgot about Rhino, he would go last after Dehaan's Goblin

 

[Johnny-Oh]

I can't believe to this day people still think the tentacles control Doc Ock If that was true they would have taken over completely after the Hospital scene which is not the case at all. The tentacles are another presence that influences him but he's the one making the decisions, that why in the end the tentacles can't stop him from destroying his machine, because he's the one in control.

 

[DOBSON10]

I can't believe to this day people still think the tentacles control Doc Ock If that was true they would have taken over completely after the Hospital scene which is not the case at all. The tentacles are another presence that influences him but he's the one making the decisions, that why in the end the tentacles can't stop him from destroying his machine, because he's the one in control.

I took it as him gaining his control back in a sloppy redemption arch, why else would a perfectly sane genius scientist with plans of making the world a better place suddenly turn into a murderous, bank robbing nutcase listening to the voices in his head from the tentacles. Regardless of which one of us is right, it didn't work for me and the character was beyond boring to me. To each their own though, I know I'm in a vast and small minority in my opinion of Doc Ock in Spider-Man 2.

 

[Timebomb]

Before I chime in on the above topics, I just got back from a family trip to Disneyland and let me just say, the GOTG ride is flippin awesome! I mean really really fun. I'm a big Twilight Zone fan and I was in the camp that was a little down that they replaced the Tower of Terror but after riding it, great ride.

 

[Johnny-Oh]

I took it as him gaining his control back in a sloppy redemption arch, why else would a perfectly sane genius scientist with plans of making the world a better place suddenly turn into a murderous, bank robbing nutcase listening to the voices in his head from the tentacles. Regardless of which one of us is right, it didn't work for me and the character was beyond boring to me. To each their own though, I know I'm in a vast and small minority in my opinion of Doc Ock in Spider-Man 2.

He never lost control, why would the tentacles have to convince him of becoming a criminal if they could just control him? They're just an influence but he's still the one choosing to do everything, the only thing the tentacles did on their own was killing the doctors.

why else would a perfectly sane genius scientist with plans of making the world a better place suddenly turn into a murderous, bank robbing nutcase

It's perfectly clear in the lair scene why he does, he lost everything and the only thing he has left is his project which he still believes could make the world a better place. Based on your post you could probably make a far stronger case against Harvey Dent and why his change makes a lot less sense.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

I agree with Kane,my second viewing of HC was a revelation. They simply knocked it out of the park with Spidey.

Glad to hear this. Due to work and other stuff I probably won't get to the cinema to see it again. But I really hope HC grows on me with more viewings. I enjoyed my first viewing, but was also a little underwhelmed.

 

[Greens]

Homecoming completely ****ing dropped the ball by having Peter put the Emperor ON TOP of the LEGO Death Star. What sense does that make?

 

[Limonade]

I'm down for a Spider-Man legal drama film.

Matt Murdock representing the State of New York!