The Dark Knight Rises Coleman Reese vs. John Blake

[shauner111]

They will. Im sure when the next solo film comes around, a new writer and director will take charge of that.

I think the new Bats will have some Nolan-isms but he'll be closer to the comics. More fantasy. I mean, Goyer says metahumans exist. I have this feeling they'll base it off the Arkham Batman. Itll be like a sci-fi/serious Batman.

 

[Shikamaru]

Because in this trilogy he was never quite the world's greatest detective. That will saved for the reboot. He was a smart but not super intelligent, ordinary man. Any one of us could have been duped by Talia under those circumstances, especially since he was so rusty and out of the game. His mind wasn't right. Nolan always tried making him more relatable in this version.

For the sake of the story told and that version of Wayne, it was fine. I never once thought "he should be figuring this out". But if he was set up as the world's greatest detective from the get-go then I would have facepalmed when Talia reveals herself.

I assume Goyer will write the new Batman to be more sci-fi. A better mind and a better fighter.

He was no "Goddamn Batman" but he was still intelligent and a detective nonetheless.

 

[Shikamaru]

Because in this trilogy he was never quite the world's greatest detective. That will saved for the reboot. He was a smart but not super intelligent, ordinary man. Any one of us could have been duped by Talia under those circumstances, especially since he was so rusty and out of the game. His mind wasn't right. Nolan always tried making him more relatable in this version.

For the sake of the story told and that version of Wayne, it was fine. I never once thought "he should be figuring this out". But if he was set up as the world's greatest detective from the get-go then I would have facepalmed when Talia reveals herself.

I assume Goyer will write the new Batman to be more sci-fi. A better mind and a better fighter.

He was no "Goddamn Batman" but he was still intelligent and a detective nonetheless.

 

[BatLobster]

milost- I mean no offense here, just curious but...



















Why do you feel the need to space out your posts so much? The holes you leave in your posts are much bigger than any that can be found in The Dark Knight Rises

Also, I think Bruce's best show of faith was when he trusted the people on the ferries not to blow each other hope. The bottom line is this Bruce Wayne always tends to think the best about the common Gothamite, it's been established from the start ("There are good people here, give me more time!"). I think he tends to be more distrustful of the elite and more trusting of the common people, which is a pretty unique and admirable quality to have for a billionaire.

 

[kvz5]

I assume Goyer will write the new Batman to be more sci-fi. A better mind and a better fighter.

The weird part for me is Goyer saying just a month or so ago that he can't even think of a Batman other than Nolan's Batman and yet here we are a month later and we find out that he's writing the new Batman.

 

[shauner111]

Well, he didn't quite say Nolans version. He seems to be fine with a reboot and a different take. He said he couldn't think of anyone but Bale at the moment, playing the role. But that's understandable. Once he writes the new version and he sees the new actor im sure he'll change his mind. After all he said that right before MOS dropped. It wasn't even a year since Rises.

 

[milost]

milost- I mean no offense here, just curious but...



















Why do you feel the need to space out your posts so much? The holes you leave in your posts are much bigger than any that can be found in The Dark Knight Rises

I'm using my,














































































iphone.

 

[BatLobster]

Lol, figured. Dude, you've typed out some epicly long posts on your iPhone then. Props. I don't have the patience.

 

[milost]

Lol, figured. Dude, you've typed out some epicly long posts on your iPhone then. Props. I don't have the patience.

Thanks, but I'm sure you've noticed that I make a LOT of edits.

Then with images and code, it's even harder.

 

[ThePhantasm]

The weird part for me is Goyer saying just a month or so ago that he can't even think of a Batman other than Nolan's Batman and yet here we are a month later and we find out that he's writing the new Batman.

That bothers me. I hope we don't simply get a retread of what's gone before. I'd like another writer or adviser in there to be an influence, like Paul Dini or someone, just to balance things out more.

 

[Shikamaru]

I'm not really worried about the new Batman specifically. I'm mainly worried about the story and script itself, since Goyer and Snyder are writing. Snyder is not that good of a writer and Goyer is a great ideas-man and can write some really great things with a talented co-writer but he needs someone to edit and polish his scripts, which no one will do in this case.

 

[Brain Damage]

I'll do it!
Maybe if I send WB a really convincing letter.

 

[Tequilla]

On top of there being no payoff, I still question why people believed Bane in the first place. He has no legitimate evidence that the Dent coverup is true other than reading a letter that the Gothamites have no way of knowing whether or not Gordon wrote it. Why would anyone believe the terrorist with the bomb in the first place? If Bane made Gordon admit the truth on TV or had Harvey pulled out of Blackgate to make him admit it (assuming he was alive), that would have made sense. That would have been a solid reason to believe the coverup is true. Yet none of that is addressed. People believe it literally just because Bane said so.

Also, wonderful post you wrote, Phantasm . I agree with everything you said. I have respect for the users on here and don't look down on anyone either.

What people ? If you remember the scene cuts between the speech and the guys at jail. He told them what they wanted to hear.

Then it goes to the riots and the kangaroo courts. Exposing Dent's actions were just a small part of the ploy of Bane , that used the problems of Gotham against themselves. His so called revolution doesnt start nor end with anything he says about Harvey. He had already addressed the city in the stadium.

 

[Skrilla31]

Look you'll never see me try and defend TDKR because truth be told I don't think it's a good movie. And like many others, I also thought that John Blake's character was an absolute bore and that he felt shoehorned into the story. But you know what? His off screen - some would argue contrived - revelation about Bruce's identity doesn't really bother me. Here's why.

John Blake is actually Robin. I know he's not Robin in the traditional sense, but in Nolan's Bat-verse this fellow John Blake is Robin. The way I interpret it, those two characters are forever linked. If you were to play word association and you uttered the phrase "Batman", I wouldn't be surprised if "Robin" turned out to be the majority response.

So to me it makes sense that Robin just "knows" who Batman is even though no one else can seem to figure it out. Like I said, those two are linked whether they know it or not. They're the same. When Bruce walked into that orphan home all those years ago, Robin knew who he was underneath the moment he looked into his eyes. He just saw... Batman. He saw himself. No explanation is needed.

At least that's how I see it.

 

[Shikamaru]

What people ? If you remember the scene cuts between the speech and the guys at jail. He told them what they wanted to hear.

Then it goes to the riots and the kangaroo courts. Exposing Dent's actions were just a small part of the ploy of Bane , that used the problems of Gotham against themselves. His so called revolution doesnt start nor end with anything he says about Harvey. He had already addressed the city in the stadium.

You're completely off topic to what I was talking about.

Bane told the whole city live on television about the Harvey coverup. What evidence does he have that what he is saying is true?

Look you'll never see me try and defend TDKR because truth be told I don't think it's a good movie. And like many others, I also thought that John Blake's character was an absolute bore and that he felt shoehorned into the story. But you know what? His off screen - some would argue contrived - revelation about Bruce's identity doesn't really bother me. Here's why.

John Blake is actually Robin. I know he's not Robin in the traditional sense, but in Nolan's Bat-verse this fellow John Blake is Robin. The way I interpret it, those two characters are forever linked. If you were to play word association and you uttered the phrase "Batman", I wouldn't be surprised if "Robin" turned out to be the majority response.

So to me it makes sense that Robin just "knows" who Batman is even though no one else can seem to figure it out. Like I said, those two are linked whether they know it or not. They're the same. When Bruce walked into that orphan home all those years ago, Robin knew who he was underneath the moment he looked into his eyes. He just saw... Batman. He saw himself. No explanation is needed.

At least that's how I see it.

Even in the comics, Robin did not just "know" that Bruce Wayne is Batman. Tim Drake had to do legitimate detective work to deduce Batman's identity.

 

[Tequilla]

You're completely off topic to what I was talking about.

Bane told the whole city live on television about the Harvey coverup. What evidence does he have that what he is saying is true?

I was addressing this specifically you wrote , Shikamaru

On top of there being no payoff, I still question why people believed Bane in the first place. He has no legitimate evidence that the Dent coverup is true other than reading a letter that the Gothamites have no way of knowing whether or not Gordon wrote it. Why would anyone believe the terrorist with the bomb in the first place? If Bane made Gordon admit the truth on TV or had Harvey pulled out of Blackgate to make him admit it (assuming he was alive), that would have made sense. That would have been a solid reason to believe the coverup is true. Yet none of that is addressed. People believe it literally just because Bane said so.

The director never presents us anything about the Dent coverup , as Bane is reading the letter , but Blackgate prisoners reactions and Jim Gordon. They sure as hell believe because he's telling them they were illegally imprisoned.

As for why would Bane also believe it , considering he took it straight from Jim Gordon's jacket , the man who was present in the whole scene , who was prepared to go public with that even if it stained his reputation and him being since ever the cleanest cop of Gotham....

But even if he didn't. I dont think he would care very much. As long as he could keep poisoning gothamites minds. Dent is just a facet of Gotham's continuous corruption.

 

[Shikamaru]

I was addressing this specifically you wrote , Shikamaru



The director never presents us anything about the Dent coverup , as Bane is reading the letter , but Blackgate prisoners reactions and Jim Gordon. They sure as hell believe because he's telling them they were illegally imprisoned.

As for why would Bane also believe it , considering he took it straight from Jim Gordon's jacket , the man who was present in the whole scene , who was prepared to go public with that even if it stained his reputation and him being since ever the cleanest cop of Gotham....

But even if he didn't. I dont think he would care very much. As long as he could keep poisoning gothamites minds. Dent is just a facet of Gotham's continuous corruption.

It makes sense why Bane would believe it. But why would the people of Gotham believe it?

Bane wasn't just addressing the Blackgate prisoners. He was addressing the whole city. That's why it was shown live on TV and why we saw him with his front towards all the Gotham reporters. We even see him pulling out a picture of Harvey, showing it to the cameras, and saying something among the lines of "This is the face of your hero". He is definitely addressing Gotham as a whole.

Bane revealed the truth behind the Dent coverup so that he could justify to the entire city breaking all the Blackgate prisoners out. If the people of Gotham did not believe him though, he would have no justification to break out the prisoners in the first place (that's not to say he wouldn't have done it in the first place). It has also been argued by people such as BLR and Shauner that Blake represents the "voice of Gotham" that was lacking in TDKR. I never fully agreed with that but if that is true, then Blake's reaction represents what the people of Gotham think of the whole coverup. In Blake's case, he believed it.

Essentially, everything points to the people of Gotham believing the Dent coverup for the most part despite Bane having no legitimate evidence.

 

[Tequilla]

It makes sense why Bane would believe it. But why would the people of Gotham believe it?

Bane wasn't just addressing the Blackgate prisoners. He was addressing the whole city. That's why it was shown live on TV and why we saw him with his front towards all the Gotham reporters. We even see him pulling out a picture of Harvey, showing it to the cameras, and saying something among the lines of "This is the face of your hero". He is definitely addressing Gotham as a whole.

Bane revealed the truth behind the Dent coverup so that he could justify to the entire city breaking all the Blackgate prisoners out. If the people of Gotham did not believe him though, he would have no justification to break out the prisoners in the first place (that's not to say he wouldn't have done it in the first place). It has also been argued by people such as BLR and Shauner that Blake represents the "voice of Gotham" that was lacking in TDKR. I never fully agreed with that but if that is true, then Blake's reaction represents what the people of Gotham think of the whole coverup. In Blake's case, he believed it.

Essentially, everything points to the people of Gotham believing the Dent coverup for the most part despite Bane having no legitimate evidence.

Yeah that's what i was trying to say Shikamaru , we don't really see a detailed reaction from anyone regarding Dent's action . I don't see anything in the movie that really supports that they believed or not. It was used by Bane as pure instigation. He used it to support his actions.

As for Blake , I don't see his role like that. Nolan definitely writes broad characters that try to shape a little bit the space and different stratums he presents , but never reduces a single city to an individual. That's why it irks me when people talk Gotham as a monolith that reacts uniformly.

Him being the physical manifestation of Bruce ideals for the city , i would interpret maybe as a conscience of the people that Bruce tries wake up when he embraces his role. But that has little to do with the fact that they believed it or not. Blake confronts it with Gordon and its his reaction that's important.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

Jonathon Blaketon, obviously. Coleman Reese simply was at the propitious place at the favorable time, inquiring into his given, common intellect to connect together clandestine dots.

Jonathon, on the other hand, felt it in his bones. Man.

 

[BatLobster]

Unrelated...

I learned today that in the comic Batman: Year 100, there's a version of Robin whose first name was Robin.

Just thought that was interesting.

 

[Kazuki]

I feel Reese's discovery was plausible and well handled.

Blake's was ridiculous and unbelievable.

In the comics a lot of people think Bruce is Batman. It´s something normal, and there´s nothing ridiculous and unbelievable about that. The only problem in the movie is that only Blake comes forward ans says that he thinks Batman is Bruce Wayne. More people should have the same opinion. That´s the problem.

 

[The Joker]

In the comics a lot of people think Bruce is Batman.

Like who?

 

[Kazuki]

Like who?

Cassandra Cain, Bane, Harvey Dent, Hugo Strange, Tim Drake and many others. Just familiarize yourself with the character and stop talking non sense. You would do everyone in this forum a big favour.

 

[The Joker]

Cassandra Cain, Bane, Hugo Strange, Tim Drake and many others.

Every single one of them figured out his identity through plausible means. They didn't know him from just a look on his face.

Harvey Dent

He never suspected Bruce as Batman.

Just familiarize yourself with the character and stop talking non sense. You would do everyone in this forum a big favour.

Pot. Kettle. Black.

Any time you want to take me on in Batman knowledge competition, let me know. I'll wipe the floor with you.

 

[Kazuki]

And by the way: Blake said other kids also talked about Bruce being Batman. So it seems that people suspecting Bruce Wayne isn´t really something that uncommon. It simply isn´t very explored in the movie. But you don´t have to be a genius to conclude that in a giant city like Gotham some people would make the association between Batman and Bruce, wich is actually pretty obvious. In the real world, you would only need a pic of Batman to come to the conclusion that he is Batman.