Contest of Marvels II Thread 2

[Zoken]

Hybrid Vs. Joystick II

Okay, new battle field equals easier fight for Hybrid. Given the forest location, he's going to be able to move easily without being seen as he has a camoflauge ability. add to that his ability to climb easily and he can move around more quickly and discretely than Joystick with her glowing weapons. he is stronger than her, faster than her, and more experienced than her. Plus his training as a police officer will allow him to plan better for this encounter than her (based on their last encounter). He will own her seven ways to sunday.

Winner: Hybrid!

 

[Ahura Mazda]

Optic beam up through the trees=sunlight

Actually I was looking through my x-men comics and I have issues 183-186 and I did not see him once use his optic beams. Are we sure he can?

For that to work War would have to be...******ed. I don't know the character at all but I don't think he's an idiot. These battles are 1 on 1 with no other superbeing, why would Apocalypse just show up to say hi?

Gazer was never known for his intelligence and how could he know Apocolypse who is like a God to him could not show up. In any case, he will not attack instantaneously the person he calls master. And Mr. Sinister disguised as him would only need to approach to dispose of Gazer. Mind wipe can be very effective.

I was actually speaking of Sinister's resistence but since you just said a sword can go through him, I think an electric mace will obliterate him. His mind is completely blank? I'm not sure what you mean or base this on but it can actually be an advantage against someone like Sinister he relies on telepathy, illusions, and misdirection.

I think we have total miscomprehension of what I said. I apologise if I was not clear. As the image showed he was stabbed in the back and killed by a scribe. I stated earlier it was a sword but my mistake it was a spear. Also waht I mean total mind wipe includes Sinister taking over and making Gazer do what he wants.

I just would like to add when he used his mace he was at best able to knock Emma Frost down (she was still very able to fight) and then he turned and ran rather then fight against the rest of the x-men. He did jump through a wall however. He did not last very long so it is hard to tell what the extent of his powers were but they could not be that great if a spear in his back was enough to dispose of him.

Winner=Mr. Sinister

 

[kytrigger]

Note: Iwon't be able to debate from Monday evening onwards, but hopefully we'll be pretty much done with both sides of our debate. Monday evening, I'll probably just put up my closing argument and if anything is still left unresolved, I'll just have to hope for the best.

Sauron (KYTRIGGER) bio

vs.

Sif (AHURA MAZDA) bio

I have some great matches this week, and this is one of them. Here, we have Sif, a formidable Asgardian vs. Sauron, a badass pterodactyl (is there any other kind).

First off powers.

Sif has super strength (30 tons) and is a very skilled warrior. She also has normal Asgardian density which makes her more durable than a person. She also has a magic sword that cut cut open dimensional gateways (and I would guess is kind of sharp).

Sauron can drain a person's energy. Once he's had enough he turns into a pterodactyl that can fly, hypnotise people, use a psychic scream, breathe fire, super strength, and has sharp claws.

As for prep time, Sauron has the advantage. Sif would know nothing of him. Sauron however, is an extremely smart man. Sif is one of the most famous Norse Gods from mythology and he would know her name from that. Since he knows she is Asgardian, he would expect her to be like all asgardians and have super-strength and be a good warrior. He wouldn't know much else, but he would at least be prepared for that. He would also drain people before the battle so he could make sure that he went in in his pterodactyl form.

As for location, this also greatly helps Sauron. It is a forest. He is used to the Savage Land and knows how to fight, hunt, track, and do everything else in a forest.

As for the battle, Sauron would immediately take flight. While he's in the air, Sif really has no way of actually hitting him. Once he finds her, he will not only start using his psychic screm and fire breath, but also start draining her energy. Now, while draing someone's energy can usually be pretty quick for him, this is Sif, and it would take some time for her to be drained to the point where she could no longer fight. But that fine, becausew the more he drains, the stronger he gets. His fire breather wouldn't hurt her as much as as a normal human, but Asgardians have shown psychic weaknesses before and his Psychic scream would defiantely do some damage. Also, Asgardian's have been mind controlled before and if he can look into her eyes, she could be hypnotized by him as well. Between having to dodge his fire breath, psychic screams, and hypnotism, Sif won't be able to even mount an offensive, which is useless since she doesn't have anythign to hit him with. Eventually she'd be too drained to even fight back and since her energy is most likely powerful, Sauron would drain all of it effectively killing her.

Winner-Sauron

 

[kytrigger]

Yes it is time for another Asgardian to do battle. But this is not any normal Asgardian, this is Sif, second among all the Asgardian female warriors and a swordmaster with a magical sword.

True, but the magic in her sword is basically pointless in this battle since running to another dimension would be a ring out.

To be a little more explicit, she is class 30 and has fater then normal Asgardian speed, with of course all the other Asgardian traits. She also has a sword which allows her dimensional travel. Lest I forget, she is for all intents and purposes immortal and lived through the 1600s so is very aware of them. In fact, that picture is of Sif in 1602.

All true, except that her speed is somewhat neutralized in this coimpetition. She will have to be constantly zigzaggin through trees and what not, making her much slower than she usually is. ALso, while she was alive in teh 1600's, that doesn't really help her in any way in this battle. There is nothign about the actual time that helps either combatant. The only thing that helps is that Sauron is fighting in a forest and he used to that form the Savage land.

Now Sauron is a vampire who can drain mutant energy obtaining a fraction of their powers and transforming into a pterodactyl. This mutant energy is not permanent and needs to be replenished relatively often.

He can also breathe fire, use psychic screams, hypnotise, has super-strength, can fly etc.

His strength is class 10, his speed is somewhat superhuman, he can breathe fire, and can hypnotise humans. And yes he can fly in his pterodactyl form.

His strength is class 10, but he can augment that. He has been know to psychically enhance his strength (usually shown as a purple or red aura around his hands.) while they have never said how strong this makes him, it is quite a btit stronger. But none of this really matters, since he has a number of ways to attack Sif from afar.

Sif may be able to find some information on Sauron but he will find very little on her apart from what is Norse mythology.

How would she find any info on him whatsoever? But yes, Sauron would know her from Norse mythology and realize she is an Asgardian and could guess her traits form that (to which he would be correct).

She will come prepared wearing full armour and her magic sword.

I agree. But her sword is pretty useless (magically speaking).

The two will locate each other and Sif will use her warrior skills to cut and splice this evil creature who attempts to harm her. She be too fast and too strong for Sauron and will ultimately take this battle.

The man's a freakign pterodactyl. Howoften do yuo see those walking around on the ground in educational videos? Sauron will immediately take flight to find her and stay above her. He has no reason to get close to her sicne his long range attacks are more powerful than his short range ones. Plus, she has no way of actualyl attacking him while he's in flight.

It is even a question whether he will be in pterodactyl form as there will be no energy for him to drain and as a human his chances are next to nil.

Well, he would have prepared for the battle by draining people so he would go in as a pterodactyl. Then duringthe battle he will be constantly draining Sif who will have more than enough energy.

If for some chance he did run out of energy and reverted to human form, Sif wouldn't know it (she knows nothign about him) she would just think he is some random stranger in the middle of the battle and try and help im. WHen she gets in close, he would just drain her there or even hypnotise her which he can still do as a human. All of this is not very likely to happen though IMO just for the fact that I don't see him running out of energy.

Overall, Sif is a great warrior, but a one-trick pony. By flying above her, Sauron has voided all of her attacks but he can still use his plethora of long-range attacks on her.

Winner- Sauron

 

[Hellstormer]

Actually I was looking through my x-men comics and I have issues 183-186 and I did not see him once use his optic beams. Are we sure he can?

Well it says he can in the Wiki and since the wiki is what screwed up my Darkdevil battle it pretty much has to be true. So yes he can regardless of what you say.

Gazer was never known for his intelligence and how could he know Apocolypse who is like a God to him could not show up. In any case, he will not attack instantaneously the person he calls master. And Mr. Sinister disguised as him would only need to approach to dispose of Gazer. Mind wipe can be very effective.

But you said he's not smart and you implied he doesn't have a mind of his own so mind wipe won't really work.

I think we have total miscomprehension of what I said. I apologise if I was not clear. As the image showed he was stabbed in the back and killed by a scribe. I stated earlier it was a sword but my mistake it was a spear. Also waht I mean total mind wipe includes Sinister taking over and making Gazer do what he wants.

But you just said he only listen to commands from Apocalypse, and since, according to you, he's mindless he'll only take orders directly from Apocalypse. Therefor something like mind control won't work.

I just would like to add when he used his mace he was at best able to knock Emma Frost down (she was still very able to fight) and then he turned and ran rather then fight against the rest of the x-men. He did jump through a wall however. He did not last very long so it is hard to tell what the extent of his powers were but they could not be that great if a spear in his back was enough to dispose of him.

I need more details on this spear kill because I doubt Apocalypse would make him an acoylte without giving him some damage resistence. This is like my fight with Frankie Raye. Galactus wouldn't give someone powers without making them superstrong and just because it didn't say anything in the wiki doesn't mean he doesn't have it. I'm using that logic in figuring that Gazer has some damage resitence and something was special about that spear.


Winner=Gazer

 

[Midnight Ice]

Karima Shapandar (MIDNIGHT ICE) bio

vs.

Fantomex (HELLSTORMER) bio

Ok, this would be an awesome match to watch! Lets take a quick look at Karima's abilities:
Karima is fitted with Prime/Omega Sentinel technology which gives her superhuman strength, reflexes, speed and endurance. She also has flight capacity, nanite regeneration to repair any physical injury/damage she receives (she is also repaired so that she is stronger and more durable than she was before she suffered damage)

Since Karima is a Prime Sentinel, she would not be affected by hypnosis of any kind. If Fantomex tried to use any illusion on her, she coud easily switch to infared or a heat vision to quickly see through any and all illusions.

With that combined with her ability to quickly regenerate from any wound given to her, Fantomex would find that he is outmatched. His weapons would do nothing to her, while her many many weapons conceled in her body would be more than enough to subdue Fantomex.

Winner: Karima Shapandar-Prime Sentinel

 

[Hellstormer]

Since Karima is a Prime Sentinel, she would not be affected by hypnosis of any kind. If Fantomex tried to use any illusion on her, she coud easily switch to infared or a heat vision to quickly see through any and all illusions.

Crap she has infrared. Ok I agree with pretty much all of that. Unless he made her think she was human again and she got wrapped up in it to the point where she forgot she could do that. Unlikely but possible.

With that combined with her ability to quickly regenerate from any wound given to her, Fantomex would find that he is outmatched. His weapons would do nothing to her, while her many many weapons conceled in her body would be more than enough to subdue Fantomex.

Not true Fantomex's healing factor is nearly the same as Wolverine's and plus EVA is still back home and he has a connection with her (even through alternate realities) meaning anything that he needs (weapon systems, weak spots, overide codes) he could pull through her. He'll bring guns of course and eveytime he find a weakspot his brains will form hundreds of possibilities. So overall he's how match in sheer fire power but he's a lot smarter.

Winner=Fantomex

 

[Ahura Mazda]

Note: Iwon't be able to debate from Monday evening onwards, but hopefully we'll be pretty much done with both sides of our debate. Monday evening, I'll probably just put up my closing argument and if anything is still left unresolved, I'll just have to hope for the best.
I have some great matches this week, and this is one of them. Here, we have Sif, a formidable Asgardian vs. Sauron, a badass pterodactyl (is there any other kind).

First off powers.

Sif has super strength (30 tons) and is a very skilled warrior. She also has normal Asgardian density which makes her more durable than a person. She also has a magic sword that cut cut open dimensional gateways (and I would guess is kind of sharp).

I agree with all of the above except that her sword being of Asgardian origin is considerably sharper and more deadly then the average sword. And one thing she could do is open a dimensional gateway and push Sauron through it, not that this the most likely of scenarios.

Sauron can drain a person's energy. Once he's had enough he turns into a pterodactyl that can fly, hypnotise people, use a psychic scream, breathe fire, super strength, and has sharp claws.

I agree those are his powers but I have a question. Was Sauron ever able to drain an Asgardian?

As for prep time, Sauron has the advantage. Sif would know nothing of him. Sauron however, is an extremely smart man. Sif is one of the most famous Norse Gods from mythology and he would know her name from that. Since he knows she is Asgardian, he would expect her to be like all asgardians and have super-strength and be a good warrior. He wouldn't know much else, but he would at least be prepared for that. He would also drain people before the battle so he could make sure that he went in in his pterodactyl form.

From Norse Mythology, you would know Sif had her hair cut by Loki and that she was the wife of Thor. There is nothing about her being a warrior or an expert swordswoman.

As for location, this also greatly helps Sauron. It is a forest. He is used to the Savage Land and knows how to fight, hunt, track, and do everything else in a forest.

I would say the location is no handicap for either contrary to other combattants this week. The one thing a forest is not the best place to fly.

As for the battle, Sauron would immediately take flight. While he's in the air, Sif really has no way of actually hitting him. Once he finds her, he will not only start using his psychic screm and fire breath, but also start draining her energy. Now, while draing someone's energy can usually be pretty quick for him, this is Sif, and it would take some time for her to be drained to the point where she could no longer fight. But that fine, becausew the more he drains, the stronger he gets. His fire breather wouldn't hurt her as much as as a normal human, but Asgardians have shown psychic weaknesses before and his Psychic scream would defiantely do some damage. Also, Asgardian's have been mind controlled before and if he can look into her eyes, she could be hypnotized by him as well. Between having to dodge his fire breath, psychic screams, and hypnotism, Sif won't be able to even mount an offensive, which is useless since she doesn't have anythign to hit him with. Eventually she'd be too drained to even fight back and since her energy is most likely powerful, Sauron would drain all of it effectively killing her.

First of al, I question whether he will immediately turn into an evil pterodactyl, a change which I thought was involuntary based on his energy consumption. Second, he will not be flying through the trees in a dense forest and if he flies above he would not find her. Second, as fast as she is, she could hit him with her sword. One hit is all it would take for her to dispose of him.

Winner-SIF

 

[Ahura Mazda]

True, but the magic in her sword is basically pointless in this battle since running to another dimension would be a ring out.

The sword is asgardian in origin and therefore is magical in itself in its sharpness and balance. Yes it does not glow or shoot blasts but it will cut through Sauron like a warm knife through butter

All true, except that her speed is somewhat neutralized in this coimpetition. She will have to be constantly zigzaggin through trees and what not, making her much slower than she usually is. Also, while she was alive in teh 1600's, that doesn't really help her in any way in this battle. There is nothign about the actual time that helps either combatant. The only thing that helps is that Sauron is fighting in a forest and he used to that form the Savage land.

Actually, I was talking about running speed but about reflexive combat speed in which she is considerably faster thenm Sauron. he would not have enough time to duck if she swings at him.

He can also breathe fire, use psychic screams, hypnotise, has super-strength, can fly etc.

Yes in petrodactyl form.

His strength is class 10, but he can augment that. He has been know to psychically enhance his strength (usually shown as a purple or red aura around his hands.) while they have never said how strong this makes him, it is quite a btit stronger. But none of this really matters, since he has a number of ways to attack Sif from afar.

There is nothing that states he can augment his strength but as you suggest I will drop it. Sif is stronger however.

How would she find any info on him whatsoever? But yes, Sauron would know her from Norse mythology and realize she is an Asgardian and could guess her traits form that (to which he would be correct).

Odin is the all seeing all father. Sif has direct access to him an therefore he could tell her what his 2 ravens have told him. And what he would know from Norse mythology would not help him much.

I agree. But her sword is pretty useless (magically speaking).

Actually it would not be as she could use it as a missile or attack him head on. She may also have a spear with her (see below).

The man's a freakign pterodactyl. Howoften do yuo see those walking around on the ground in educational videos? Sauron will immediately take flight to find her and stay above her. He has no reason to get close to her sicne his long range attacks are more powerful than his short range ones. Plus, she has no way of actualyl attacking him while he's in flight.

Actually, he turns into a humanoid pterodactyl with hind legsso walking is not an issue here. Again, we are also in a dense forest of trees, how many eagles or other large birds do you see fly in between trees? It is too dangerous.

Well, he would have prepared for the battle by draining people so he would go in as a pterodactyl. Then during the battle he will be constantly draining Sif who will have more than enough energy.

I do have an issue with this and ask if Sauron who is reluctant to turn into his evil pterodactyl form would first have people he could track down during prep time (if he does then I can use things I would obtain from Odin including Gungnir, the spear that never misses which Odin has lent on occassion in the past) and second, he would be willing to do so enough to maintain his pterodactyl form for the whole battle.

If for some chance he did run out of energy and reverted to human form, Sif wouldn't know it (she knows nothign about him) she would just think he is some random stranger in the middle of the battle and try and help im. WHen she gets in close, he would just drain her there or even hypnotise her which he can still do as a human. All of this is not very likely to happen though IMO just for the fact that I don't see him running out of energy.

Why would she not know...there is noone else there first of all, second she would se him change and third wouldn't she have a picture of him in his 2 forms. (the last is a question for the moderators). And he cannot just drain her because she is in his presence so really that makes it very difficult for him against a faster, stronger being weilding a deadly sword and wearing armour.

Overall, Sif is a great warrior, but a one-trick pony. By flying above her, Sauron has voided all of her attacks but he can still use his plethora of long-range attacks on her.

If this was open ground I would grant you that but in a dense forest that startegy may not valid as he will not be able to see through the trees and flying within the forest is a very dangerous prospect, on which no large bird does unless absolutely forced.

He would have to get close, and just to add, his scream or fire would not hurt her enough for him to win, if he was able to get close enough to do so.

Winner- Sif

 

[Ahura Mazda]

Well it says he can in the Wiki and since the wiki is what screwed up my Darkdevil battle it pretty much has to be true. So yes he can regardless of what you say.

I am basing this on the comic books which I had in front of me yesterday and in none of them did he use the eye blasts, therefore I question them not that it changes much.

But you said he's not smart and you implied he doesn't have a mind of his own so mind wipe won't really work.

Mind wipe would be enough to make him even more open to any command he hears....

But you just said he only listen to commands from Apocalypse, and since, according to you, he's mindless he'll only take orders directly from Apocalypse. Therefor something like mind control won't work.

First, Sinister will look like Apocolypse and second once he is completely empty he will follow any command he hears from anybody. Lets not forget Mr. Sinister is a master of manipulation and a genius. i think he could out smart Gazer.

I need more details on this spear kill because I doubt Apocalypse would make him an acoylte without giving him some damage resistence. This is like my fight with Frankie Raye. Galactus wouldn't give someone powers without making them superstrong and just because it didn't say anything in the wiki doesn't mean he doesn't have it. I'm using that logic in figuring that Gazer has some damage resitence and something was special about that spear.

The spear was nothing special...the scribe just suddenly showe up and speared him from behind. It really was one panel. The whole story was that gazer had been saved by the Scribe in his battle against an archeologist (human) before he was transformed into War. The Scribe later then went to gazer to hatch some nefarious plan but Gazer betrayed him to Apocolypse, who then exiled the Scribe who in trun went to see the X-men. In a battle royale (basically a big fight) he shows up when Gazer is speaking to Apocolypse and spears him from behind. The blade is red with blood afterwards but there is nothing special about it and nothing is stated making it special. I do give you that he has some damage resistance but not enough to prevent a blade from penetrating and killing him.

And Nova should have some super strength.


Winner=Mr. Sinsiter

 

[Hellstormer]

I am basing this on the comic books which I had in front of me yesterday and in none of them did he use the eye blasts, therefore I question them not that it changes much.

Well you can't so there.

Mind wipe would be enough to make him even more open to any command he hears....

I'm thinking of Gazer like a dog and Apoc is his owner. Now would SInister harm a poor inicent puppy and risk PETA on his ass?t: ANyway I can see Sinister mind wiping him but that would just make it that he can't feel or comprehend anthing, mind control, illusions, pain, ect..

First, Sinister will look like Apocolypse and second once he is completely empty he will follow any command he hears from anybody. Lets not forget Mr. Sinister is a master of manipulation and a genius. i think he could out smart Gazer.

SO Gazer will just tell him to shoot himself and then the battles done, but I don't understand how Apocalypse just shows up if SInister can see him.

The spear was nothing special...the scribe just suddenly showe up and speared him from behind. It really was one panel. The whole story was that gazer had been saved by the Scribe in his battle against an archeologist (human) before he was transformed into War. The Scribe later then went to gazer to hatch some nefarious plan but Gazer betrayed him to Apocolypse, who then exiled the Scribe who in trun went to see the X-men. In a battle royale (basically a big fight) he shows up when Gazer is speaking to Apocolypse and spears him from behind. The blade is red with blood afterwards but there is nothing special about it and nothing is stated making it special. I do give you that he has some damage resistance but not enough to prevent a blade from penetrating and killing him.

He was attacked from behind though, he had no ability to defend. IN a battle like this he could easily defend and counter.'


Winner=GAzer

 

[Ahura Mazda]

Well you can't so there.

I am sorr but it is rare for me to have the comics where the charcater has appeared

I'm thinking of Gazer like a dog and Apoc is his owner. Now would SInister harm a poor inicent puppy and risk PETA on his ass?t: ANyway I can see Sinister mind wiping him but that would just make it that he can't feel or comprehend anthing, mind control, illusions, pain, ect..

Actually , Sinister would harm a puppy and feel no qualms about it...is he a nice guy no but he is deadly. Actually after the mind wipe he would be open to anything he hears.

SO Gazer will just tell him to shoot himself and then the battles done, but I don't understand how Apocalypse just shows up if SInister can see him.

Actually he will turn his back on him and be stabbed in the back and I am basing this on the following:

Shape Shifting - Sinister has total control over his body's cellular structure, allowing him to peform limited shapeshiftng. He can assume the form of any one he wishes, and once reduced himself into a semi-liquid state.

This is Sinister in Apocolypse's form....

He was attacked from behind though, he had no ability to defend. IN a battle like this he could easily defend and counter.'

He would not defend himself here either as he would turn his back on he would think is his master....


Winner= Mr. Sinister

 

[kytrigger]

Rebuttal

I agree with all of the above except that her sword being of Asgardian origin is considerably sharper and more deadly then the average sword. And one thing she could do is open a dimensional gateway and push Sauron through it, not that this the most likely of scenarios.

Eh. I just figured it was just a really good sword. I don't see much of a difference between a really sharp human sword and a really sharp Asgardian sword, both will do the job they were intended for. And I do agree that it is an unlikely scenario for Sif to just open a gateway and push him in. She's a warrior and does have warrior's honor so she would fight honorably.

I agree those are his powers but I have a question. Was Sauron ever able to drain an Asgardian?

I don't think he's ever tried. I don't see how it wold make a difference. Asgardians are just denser, stronger, and live longer than humans. There's nothing else really different about them. They aren't even real gods in the sense of cosmic entities, they were just worshipped by some humans long ago.

From Norse Mythology, you would know Sif had her hair cut by Loki and that she was the wife of Thor. There is nothing about her being a warrior or an expert swordswoman.

Right, but you would know she is Asgardian and would know she has all the normal Asgardian attributes (which would be correct) Also, knowing that she was Thor's wife in mythology would clue Sauron in that she is powerful.

I would say the location is no handicap for either contrary to other combattants this week. The one thing a forest is not the best place to fly.

Sure it is. He would be flying above the trees. He does it all the time in the Savage Land, which is depicted as a rainforest basically and incredibly dense. If he can fly above the trees and find/attack people in the Savage Land, he can do it in any forest.

First of al, I question whether he will immediately turn into an evil pterodactyl, a change which I thought was involuntary based on his energy consumption. Second, he will not be flying through the trees in a dense forest and if he flies above he would not find her. Second, as fast as she is, she could hit him with her sword. One hit is all it would take for her to dispose of him.

Of course he would turn into a pterodactyl. That is his most common form, and he has shown recently tht he has accepted that form. HE used to be against it when he almost killed his wife or something, but since his days in Weapon X he has shown no qualms about actually being a pterodactyl. And I said earlier about him beign able to fly above the trees.

And, yes she is fast, but she still won't be able to hit her simply because his attacks are long ranged and her sword isn't.

Winner- Sauron

 

[kytrigger]

The sword is asgardian in origin and therefore is magical in itself in its sharpness and balance. Yes it does not glow or shoot blasts but it will cut through Sauron like a warm knife through butter

I will admit that if Sauron got in close to Sif, that her sword would definatly mess him up. Luckily he would stay away and use his many long ranged attacks.

Actually, I was talking about running speed but about reflexive combat speed in which she is considerably faster thenm Sauron. he would not have enough time to duck if she swings at him.

Ahh, I get you now. But Sauron won't have to suck since he will be above her by quite a distance. She still has no way to actualyl hurt Sauron in long-range combat.

Yes in petrodactyl form.

which he will be in...

There is nothing that states he can augment his strength but as you suggest I will drop it. Sif is stronger however.

From Wikipedia:

It is also noted that he can enhance his body density and strength through some sort of Psionic enhancement that can be noted by his hands covered in a thin reddish-energy field

Sif might still be stronger, but not by much. But it is a moot point really since my main argument doesn't even have him coming in for close range attacks. Although it's good to know he can handle his own in close range if need be.

Odin is the all seeing all father. Sif has direct access to him an therefore he could tell her what his 2 ravens have told him. And what he would know from Norse mythology would not help him much.

Illegal to the tournament rules. Even though it is likely Odin would tell her, she can't use himto gain info, she can only look it up herself.

Actually it would not be as she could use it as a missile or attack him head on. She may also have a spear with her (see below).

The problem with this is that she would be willing to throw away her weapon (a cherished possesion to her)for a one-shot chance of striking Sauron. Warriors don't throw a weapon away lightly, especially when it's the only one they have (I'll just talk about the spear in the next part). If she misses (whic is very possible since Sauron is a very good flier) she is without a weapon and Sauron would go to town on her with all of his attacks.

Actually, he turns into a humanoid pterodactyl with hind legsso walking is not an issue here. Again, we are also in a dense forest of trees, how many eagles or other large birds do you see fly in between trees? It is too dangerous.

That's whiel he fly above them. If he can track and attack people through the dense forest of the Savage Land, he can do it in any forest.

I do have an issue with this and ask if Sauron who is reluctant to turn into his evil pterodactyl form would first have people he could track down during prep time (if he does then I can use things I would obtain from Odin including Gungnir, the spear that never misses which Odin has lent on occassion in the past) and second, he would be willing to do so enough to maintain his pterodactyl form for the whole battle.

First, he's not against being a pterodactyl anymore. He's come to terms with it.

Second, the energy he is draining out of people isn't being given to him willfully by an ally. It's like how computers hackers in this tournament can access databases forcibly and it still be legal. Sif couldn't just recive the spear form Odin since nothign can be given. You could argue that she could steal it, but I don't really think that's in her nature at all and would definately contest that (shocker I know t. Also, there is the simple fact that she won't know he's a pterodactyl before hand since she won't have any info on him at all.

Thirdly, his energy drains, but it's not as quick as you make it seem. It will last him for quite a while, and he will be draining her as well to keep his energy levels up.

Why would she not know...there is noone else there first of all, second she would se him change and third wouldn't she have a picture of him in his 2 forms. (the last is a question for the moderators). And he cannot just drain her because she is in his presence so really that makes it very difficult for him against a faster, stronger being weilding a deadly sword and wearing armour.

Fair enough point about her possibly having pictures of both forms (I really don't know either) but if he was draining her, she wouldn't still be faster and stronger, she would be pretty much stopped in her tracks (as everyone he has ever drained before has been) and most likely would just pass out. He could also still hypnotize her at this close of a range.

But this whoel scenario is pretty far-fetched IMO sicne I don't really think he will be in human form at all. This will be Saiuron the pterodactyl vs Sif the warrior.

If this was open ground I would grant you that but in a dense forest that startegy may not valid as he will not be able to see through the trees and flying within the forest is a very dangerous prospect, on which no large bird does unless absolutely forced.

If he can do it(and do it well) in the Savge Land, he can easily do it in any forest in the world.

He would have to get close, and just to add, his scream or fire would not hurt her enough for him to win, if he was able to get close enough to do so.

He would not have to get close, and his fire breathe and psychic scream are long range attacks. The fire wouldn't hurt her enough to KO her on it's own, but add in Psychic screams (which are probably his second best attacks) and constantly draining her life energy (his best attack) and these woudl be enough to take Sif down.

Winner- Sauron

 

[Midnight Ice]

Crap she has infrared. Ok I agree with pretty much all of that. Unless he made her think she was human again and she got wrapped up in it to the point where she forgot she could do that. Unlikely but possible.

Not true Fantomex's healing factor is nearly the same as Wolverine's and plus EVA is still back home and he has a connection with her (even through alternate realities) meaning anything that he needs (weapon systems, weak spots, overide codes) he could pull through her. He'll bring guns of course and eveytime he find a weakspot his brains will form hundreds of possibilities. So overall he's how match in sheer fire power but he's a lot smarter.

Winner=Fantomex

I wouldn't say that he is a lot smarter. Sure he can think of different strategies at once, but so can Karima. Think about it, sure Fantomex has multible brains. That means he can think of multiple things, it doesn't mean he can think faster. You put three brains next to each other, they don't think any faster than they would if they were seperate.

Karima on the other hand is a sentinel, which is a machine. Computers can compute and "think" faster than the human brain as well as compute different scenarios at the same time. While Fantomex can think of multiple things, so can Karima, but bottom line, Karima can do it faster and will use it to her advantage to win this match.

Winner:Karima Shapandar

 

[Ahura Mazda]

Rebuttal

Eh. I just figured it was just a really good sword. I don't see much of a difference between a really sharp human sword and a really sharp Asgardian sword, both will do the job they were intended for. And I do agree that it is an unlikely scenario for Sif to just open a gateway and push him in. She's a warrior and does have warrior's honor so she would fight honorably.

Given that Asgardians use magic to create their most special weaponry I wuld say there is a difference between a sword made out of steel to a sword made in Asgard which Odin has enchanted. The dimensional scenario was just to show an option, not a main strategy.

I don't think he's ever tried. I don't see how it wold make a difference. Asgardians are just denser, stronger, and live longer than humans. There's nothing else really different about them. They aren't even real gods in the sense of cosmic entities, they were just worshipped by some humans long ago.

Given that they were deities (as can be defined by the fact desak was immune to their powers whereas he is not immune to the Hulk or mutants) ther is a difference so Sauron being able to drain her i put in question. Second, sauron does not just drain if she is in his presence so he needs to get a hold of her before he can do so and that I also question giving her warrior prowess.

Right, but you would know she is Asgardian and would know she has all the normal Asgardian attributes (which would be correct) Also, knowing that she was Thor's wife in mythology would clue Sauron in that she is powerful.

How would he know the physiology of an Asgardian? And just because she is Thor's wife does not make her a warrior. Amora was no warrior.

Sure it is. He would be flying above the trees. He does it all the time in the Savage Land, which is depicted as a rainforest basically and incredibly dense. If he can fly above the trees and find/attack people in the Savage Land, he can do it in any forest.

Here are a couple of birds eye views of forests:

This is a few examples of modern forests which are not as dense as forests in 1602 so unless he has x-ray vision I do not understand how he will be able to track her from above the trees. i think he would have to penetrate the forest for him to do so which makes flight very difficult for his size.

Of course he would turn into a pterodactyl. That is his most common form, and he has shown recently tht he has accepted that form. HE used to be against it when he almost killed his wife or something, but since his days in Weapon X he has shown no qualms about actually being a pterodactyl. And I said earlier about him beign able to fly above the trees.

Well I do not assume it because he requires considerable energy to do so and his hunting humans for prep time seems an unlikely scenario to me and I question whether it is valid.

And if that is the case, could Sif during her prep time ask Odin or Thor as the case may be for Gungnir, which never misses its target, that she will then simply throw at Sauron killing him. If she cannot and Sauron can, I would like to ask why not.

With regard his flying above the trees see above.

And, yes she is fast, but she still won't be able to hit her simply because his attacks are long ranged and her sword isn't.

None of his long range attacks, if he is transformed, are enough to dispose of her and his close range attacks puts him in danger of her sword.

Winner- Sif

 

[Ahura Mazda]

Sorry about the big photo but I did not find many on google.

 

[kytrigger]

Rebuttal

Given that Asgardians use magic to create their most special weaponry I wuld say there is a difference between a sword made out of steel to a sword made in Asgard which Odin has enchanted. The dimensional scenario was just to show an option, not a main strategy.

But the sword has never shown any other enhanced properties besides teh dimensional rift thingy, which you have said you aren't even using. It's prett presumptuous to think it has extra power we have never seen before and that has never been alluded to.

Given that they were deities (as can be defined by the fact desak was immune to their powers whereas he is not immune to the Hulk or mutants) ther is a difference so Sauron being able to drain her i put in question. Second, sauron does not just drain if she is in his presence so he needs to get a hold of her before he can do so and that I also question giving her warrior prowess.

Well Desak was harmed by the bloodaxe and killed by Thor I would say he isn't immune. The Asgardians are not that much different than humans or mutants. If they were, then no asgardian would be mind controlled or anything, they would be completely immune, but they aren't. They are stronger, denser, live longer, and that's about it.

How would he know the physiology of an Asgardian? And just because she is Thor's wife does not make her a warrior. Amora was no warrior.

No, but it makes her an Asgardian which means he will know the basics. And if she wasn't a warrior, why the hell would she even be in a tournament. Sauron wouldn't expect to fight someone completely helpless, so he would go in with the notion that she is an Asgardian warrior, and he would be correct.

Here are a couple of birds eye views of forests:

This is a few examples of modern forests which are not as dense as forests in 1602 so unless he has x-ray vision I do not understand how he will be able to track her from above the trees. i think he would have to penetrate the forest for him to do so which makes flight very difficult for his size.

The problem here is that you are uising real life forests and applying them to a fictional universe. In real life, you are right that a pterodactyl fighting a Norse mytholgical figure and seeign her throught the forests is a bit of a stretch...in more ways than one. But the fact is that in the Marvel universe, Sauron has been shown seeing and attacking through the harshest, densest jungle there is. There is also the fact that since many of his attacks are psychic that he can locate her physically.

Well I do not assume it because he requires considerable energy to do so and his hunting humans for prep time seems an unlikely scenario to me and I question whether it is valid.

I really don't see how it would be invalid in any way. The basis of these fights are to pit two characters against each other in their most well known forms. This is Sauron vs. Sif, not Karl Lykos vs. Sif.

And if that is the case, could Sif during her prep time ask Odin or Thor as the case may be for Gungnir, which never misses its target, that she will then simply throw at Sauron killing him. If she cannot and Sauron can, I would like to ask why not.

Because Sauron isn't asking people for their lief force, he is taking it, much like how a hacker steals info from other databases. If you think Sif could steal the spear, then go ahead say that, because that would be legal, but I highly doubt she would steal from Odin.

None of his long range attacks, if he is transformed, are enough to dispose of her and his close range attacks puts him in danger of her sword.

none of them alone, but he has many attacks that will be draining her, especially the psychic scream. Not to mention that if he is able to hypnotize her, she's pretty much screwed.

And he is an expert at sneaking up on people. Sif's senses aren't at teh level of Wolverine's ridiculously enhanced senses, but he was able to sneak up on him and drain him. Even thogh I am not a fan of Wolverine, I will admit that sneaking up on him is damn near impossible with his senses. ANd once he gets a hold of her, she won't be able to swing her sword. The people he drains collapse in pain and pass out form being drained of their life. Even if she could resist passing out, she won't have nearly enough strength to mount a good assault and he could easily just fly away and attack her from afar again.

Winner- Sauron

 

[Hellstormer]

I wouldn't say that he is a lot smarter. Sure he can think of different strategies at once, but so can Karima. Think about it, sure Fantomex has multible brains. That means he can think of multiple things, it doesn't mean he can think faster. You put three brains next to each other, they don't think any faster than they would if they were seperate.

Karima on the other hand is a sentinel, which is a machine. Computers can compute and "think" faster than the human brain as well as compute different scenarios at the same time. While Fantomex can think of multiple things, so can Karima, but bottom line, Karima can do it faster and will use it to her advantage to win this match.

But she doesn't have the file access like Fantomex does. Fantomex has EVA who's on the outside of the battle. He'd be tapping into her to get any information he needs. EVA was built by Weapon X so she has files almost the same as SHIELD. She'd have files on the Sentinels and all their factions.

I agree Fantomex cannot think faster but he can think of more possibilities and also in the comics he was able to switch brains to avoid feeling pain. This means if he gets severly injured he'll turn off that particular brain and let the healing factor take care of it. He'll go in with guns...lots of guns. Karima's only flesh and metal things bullets can easily tear through. He gets a bullet hole tries to get close before the nanotech recovers it then tears out the guts.

Winner=Fantomex

 

[Hellstormer]

I am sorr but it is rare for me to have the comics where the charcater has appeared

I know what you mean.

Actually , Sinister would harm a puppy and feel no qualms about it...is he a nice guy no but he is deadly. Actually after the mind wipe he would be open to anything he hears.

When you mindwipe someone they become a vegetable, Gazer already is a vegetable using basic motor functions. Mindwiping won't do much.

Actually he will turn his back on him and be stabbed in the back and I am basing this on the following:

Shape Shifting - Sinister has total control over his body's cellular structure, allowing him to peform limited shapeshiftng. He can assume the form of any one he wishes, and once reduced himself into a semi-liquid state.

This is Sinister in Apocolypse's form....

I read your last thing I thought it said:

First, Sinister will look at Apocolypse and second once he is completely empty he will follow any command he hears from anybody. Lets not forget Mr. Sinister is a master of manipulation and a genius. i think he could out smart Gazer.

but it says:

First, Sinister will look like Apocolypse and second once he is completely empty he will follow any command he hears from anybody. Lets not forget Mr. Sinister is a master of manipulation and a genius. i think he could out smart Gazer.

My mistake. Anyway if Apocalypse tell him to hurt himself he'll question what's happening he may be able to overcome the illusion.


Winner=Gazer

I close the book on this battle

 

[kytrigger]

CLOSING ARGUMENTS SAURON VS. SIF

Alright, I'll try to keep this relatively short:

Powers:

- Sif has the upperhand in strength (but not by too much) and has her sword. She also has better footspeed and is a good warrior. Her punches would hurt Sauron as woudl her sword

- Sauron has a number of long ranged attacks whereas Sif doesn't have any. He has a wide variety of attacks to use and can fly so he can keep a good distance away form Sif. All of his attacks would hurt Sf especially the psychic attacks, and would keep him a distance from her.


Prep:

-Sif would find no info on Sauron...at all.

- Sauron would know of Sif's name form Norse mythology (he's very smart after all) and could guess Sif's general strength level as that of an Asgardian. He wouldn't know any specifics about her though.

Location:

-Doesn't help are hurt Sif really.

- Definately helps Sauron. He is used to fighting and hunting in the Savage Land, the biggest, harshest, densest jungle in the world. he will feel right at home, and still be able to see Sif even when flying above the trees.

Battle Strategy:
-Sif is a warrior and will look to chop Sauron up with her sword or punch him with her fists.

- Sauron has no real honor and is perfectly fine with keeping a distance from Sif negating all her attacks and using his long range attacks. He will keep this up until she is badly injured or even just distracted from the forest fire he created around her and will then go in and drain her of her life energy. Once he does this, she is as good as gone.

Winner- Sauron

 

[wiegeabo]

Joystick vs Hybrid

During the first battle, Joystick would be able to learn all about Hybrid. How he fights, reacts, potential weaknesses she couldn't get otherwise, and how he uses the symbiotes. This is far more valuable to Joystick than to Hybrid (since he has more tricks up his symbiotic sleeve for her to learn about.)

The battlefield helps Hybrid far more than Joystick. The woods provide cover and plenty of places to websling. And he's got the power and agility to back his attacks up.

Joystick is no slouch either. She's at least on par with Spider-Man when it comes to strength, agility, durability. And being the 'living embodiment of action', there's no doubt she'll give Hybrid a run. Hybrid doesn't have a spider-sense, but it's more of a "border-line warning sense." Not sure what that means, but it's doubtful it's as good as Spidey's.

But, even then, Hybrid would most likely take this fight unless Joystick can hit him from a distance with her blasts.

Except...

Joystick's speed is now enough to keep up with Speed Demon. (I wish I had known this during the last round.) And since Speed Demon can break the sound barrier, Joystick has at least enough speed to keep Hybrid busy. She can get to him before his warning sense can give him enough time to act. Even getting close enough to hit him with her blasts at point blank range. Hybrid may be faster than Spider-Man, but he's not that fast.

Combining her speed with her fighting skills and knowledge of Hybrid from the last round, Joystick is more than capable of winning this fight.


Joystick wins

 

[Ahura Mazda]

Rebuttal But the sword has never shown any other enhanced properties besides teh dimensional rift thingy, which you have said you aren't even using. It's prett presumptuous to think it has extra power we have never seen before and that has never been alluded to.

Just to be clear I am not stating that the sord can do anything but cut through what it is aiming at. This discussion is pretty useless anyway because I was just making it clear that if he gets hit by the sword he will be cut up, otherwise there is no bolt being shot out of it.

Well Desak was harmed by the bloodaxe and killed by Thor I would say he isn't immune. The Asgardians are not that much different than humans or mutants. If they were, then no asgardian would be mind controlled or anything, they would be completely immune, but they aren't. They are stronger, denser, live longer, and that's about it.

The bloodaxe was a special weapon and Thor killed him using a Odinpower infused Mjollnir - this thing might have taken out Galactus. Whereas he would absorb any other Godly blast sent at him. So there is something that sets the Norse deities apart so that they are Gods in the Marvel universe. To be more clear, the eternals are not gods yet the Greek gods are gods (sorry for the phrasing). I am not saying they are completely immune just that I am not sure suaron can absorb the Asgardian life force. He so far has abosrbed humans, mutants and animals not Asgardian deities.

No, but it makes her an Asgardian which means he will know the basics. And if she wasn't a warrior, why the hell would she even be in a tournament. Sauron wouldn't expect to fight someone completely helpless, so he would go in with the notion that she is an Asgardian warrior, and he would be correct.

I still do not understand how he would know. He has not faced Asgardians aûnless you can tell me different. and does he have access to some big database I do not know about.

The problem here is that you are uising real life forests and applying them to a fictional universe. In real life, you are right that a pterodactyl fighting a Norse mytholgical figure and seeign her throught the forests is a bit of a stretch...in more ways than one. But the fact is that in the Marvel universe, Sauron has been shown seeing and attacking through the harshest, densest jungle there is. There is also the fact that since many of his attacks are psychic that he can locate her physically.

That is a bit of a stretch. It is being claimed that the forset in 1602 Marvel can be seen through because Sauron was able to attack through clear patches in the jungle of the Savage lands, so it is claimed.

I know we are in a fictional world but if there is a tree between two creatures they still have to go around it, which would be the case here. He cannot just shoot at her through the trees.

I really don't see how it would be invalid in any way. The basis of these fights are to pit two characters against each other in their most well known forms. This is Sauron vs. Sif, not Karl Lykos vs. Sif.
Because Sauron isn't asking people for their lief force, he is taking it, much like how a hacker steals info from other databases.

I am not sure the idea that we can during prep time go out and hunt humans is valid but if it is then I am fine with it. But please see below for my prep time.

If you think Sif could steal the spear, then go ahead say that, because that would be legal, but I highly doubt she would steal from Odin.

I said nothing about stealing. Sif would explain to the all father as an honored member of his hall if she could borrow it. Odin would freely lend to her the spear knowing it would help her in combat given he has entrusted her with the Odin power before when he has had to take the Odin sleep. It really would not be any stretch for him to lend her his spear Gungnir.

And to be very clear on Gungnir, it is a spear that never misses its target. Sauron would have no defense against it and could not dodge it.

none of them alone, but he has many attacks that will be draining her, especially the psychic scream. Not to mention that if he is able to hypnotize her, she's pretty much screwed.

Well given he has had a spear thrown through him I do not see what attcks he will be able to do. But if by any chance she did not throw the spear, he would have to locate her and that I question he will be able to do at a distance.

And he is an expert at sneaking up on people. Sif's senses aren't at teh level of Wolverine's ridiculously enhanced senses, but he was able to sneak up on him and drain him. Even thogh I am not a fan of Wolverine, I will admit that sneaking up on him is damn near impossible with his senses. ANd once he gets a hold of her, she won't be able to swing her sword. The people he drains collapse in pain and pass out form being drained of their life. Even if she could resist passing out, she won't have nearly enough strength to mount a good assault and he could easily just fly away and attack her from afar again.

First of all, Wolverine is no Goddess and is a mutant making him especially vulnerable to Sauron. Second of all, she will no to swing her sword immediately if he is at all close. Third of all, I am not sure he can drain her and bnothing that he has done in his past has shown that he can. And last, he will be dead because of Gungnir, the spear that never misses its target.

Winner- Sif

 

[Ahura Mazda]

I will not rebut this much but I would like to clarify a couple points.

CLOSING ARGUMENTS SAURON VS. SIF

Alright, I'll try to keep this relatively short:

Powers:

- Sif has the upperhand in strength (but not by too much) and has her sword. She also has better footspeed and is a good warrior. Her punches would hurt Sauron as woudl her sword

The strength difference is a class 30 (Sif) against a class 10 (Sauron). She is therefore 3 times as strong and not strong "not by too much". She is faster in every compartmant and is second only to valkyrie regarding female asgardian warriors. She is master swordswoman. And one swing is all it would take to kill Sauron.

- Sauron has a number of long ranged attacks whereas Sif doesn't have any. He has a wide variety of attacks to use and can fly so he can keep a good distance away form Sif. All of his attacks would hurt Sf especially the psychic attacks, and would keep him a distance from her.

She would have Gungnir based on all above that gives her the best range weapon there is.

Prep:

-Sif would find no info on Sauron...at all.

- Sauron would know of Sif's name form Norse mythology (he's very smart after all) and could guess Sif's general strength level as that of an Asgardian. He wouldn't know any specifics about her though.

In mythology, Sif appears as a goddess who has her hair stolen from her and Thor threatens Loki who was playing a trick who then gets hair to replace hers (it is golden hair made by the dwarven smiths in exchange for Loki's head). Sif in no way is a warrior in the myths and really does not have much of a role except to be known as Thor's wife. He cannot infer she is a warrior from that.

Also, Sauron as far as I know, has no access to some database which has information on Asgardians. So apart from knowing she is a God, he could not know anything else.

Location:

-Doesn't help are hurt Sif really.

- Definately helps Sauron. He is used to fighting and hunting in the Savage Land, the biggest, harshest, densest jungle in the world. he will feel right at home, and still be able to see Sif even when flying above the trees.[/quote ]

Well I claim based on pictures of forests that he cannot see through them and it is claimed that he can. he does not have x-ray vision and just because he does see through clear patches in the Savage Lands does not mean he can see through a forest from above giant trees and spot a goddess who lays wait in hiding.

Also, another thing regarding location, Sif would know it having lived through it.

Battle Strategy:
-Sif is a warrior and will look to chop Sauron up with her sword or punch him with her fists.

- Sauron has no real honor and is perfectly fine with keeping a distance from Sif negating all her attacks and using his long range attacks. He will keep this up until she is badly injured or even just distracted from the forest fire he created around her and will then go in and drain her of her life energy. Once he does this, she is as good as gone.

Sif will either use her sword or use Gungnir, if the moderators accept. if it is Gungnir, the battle is over very quickly.

If it is a sword, she will lay wait in hiding and make Sauron approach her. She will then attack him and using her superiour speed and strength would cut him up using her sword which will cut right through him.

This is not some clear grassland in which he can hover and just shoot attacks at her while she sits and waits to eventually lose. It is a dense forest making flying all but impossible and ranged combat very difficult. In close combat she has the upper hand as she is faster, stronger, more skilled and better armed.

Winner- Sif

I am done as well now, thanks to those that have read all that we wrote

And kytrigger, as always, excellent debate.

 

[Ahura Mazda]

Final thoughts:

When you mindwipe someone they become a vegetable, Gazer already is a vegetable using basic motor functions. Mindwiping won't do much.

It would simply make him more trusting and more open to orders.

My mistake.

No problem, words do get jumbled when reading sometimes.

Anyway if Apocalypse tell him to hurt himself he'll question what's happening he may be able to overcome the illusion.

Just to be very clear, I never stated that he would be required to hurt himslef just that he turns his back for an instant on Mr. Sinister who he thinks is Apocolypse. At which point Mr. Sinister will stab him through the heart killing him.


Winner=Mr. Sinister