Contest of Marvels II Thread 2

[Phaedrus45]

BRACKET 3,

Match 5:

Absorbing Man (KYTRIGGER) bio

vs.

Wallflower - House of M (JEWISHHOBBIT) bio

Match 6:

Gambit (ICEMAN/PSYLOCKE) bio

vs.

Shatterstar (JEWISHHOBBIT) bio

 

[Phaedrus45]

BRACKET 4,

Match 5:

Mysterio (PRIMEMOVER) bio

vs.

Gamesmaster (ICEMAN/PSYLOCKE) bio

Match 6:

Gorgon (HELLSTORMER) bio

vs.

Jesse Bedlam (JEWISHHOBBIT) bio

 

[Phaedrus45]

LOCATION: Asgard

Asgard is a planetoid existing in a alternate dimension within the mainstream Marvel Comics' universe, Earth-616. It is based on the Asgard of Norse mythology and is home to six different races. Asgard features prominently in tales of Thor. In the comic books, Asgard is an asteroid-like world suspended in a "Sea of Space". Gravity radiates from somewhere underneath this asteroid. The top of this "asteroid" is flat like a table. If someone stepped off of this "table", they would fall off the "asteroid" and down through space until they reached the "gravity-generator". Asgard can only be reached from Earth by crossing Bifrost, the Rainbow Bridge.

(Since the residents of Asgard wouldn't take to kindly to people invading their home and fighting, all residents of Asgard have been removed. Plus, nobody will have access to objects within Asgard that are specific to certain Asgardian individuals, like Odin. Simply put, it would be too difficult to access whether or not individuals would be able to lift or use these objects, and it's easier to go with that ruling.)

 

[kytrigger]

edit...stupid double post

 

[kytrigger]

Absorbing Man (KYTRIGGER) bio

vs.

Wallflower - House of M (JEWISHHOBBIT) bio

Okay, interesting match because it pits Absorbing Man, a slugger, against Wallflower, someone more known for winning without fighting. Even though these two have completely different styles, Absorbing Man just overpowers Wallflower in this match.

Powers:
Absorbing Man...absorbs stuff. He can take on teh properties of anythign he absorbs, and he can absorb almost anything. He can turn into diamond, wood, even absorb magical things greatly augmenting his durability and strength. He has also recently been shown to be able to control people with his mind.

Wallflower emits a pheremone that allows her to control the emotions her opponent has. From what I know, she doesn't really control their direct actions, but she can make them feel happy, or very scared etc.



Location is a HUGE advantage for Creel here. He has been to Asgard before. Hell, he has absorbed Asgard before, and it gave him a HUGE power boost and allowed him to actually defeat Odin himself in combat (although to be fair, Odin won in the end because he tricked Creel and sent him into space).

Another thing to note form that small story is that Odin sent him into space and Creel came back, which means Creel survived in space (more on this later).



Okay, so Creel wouldn't really get any info on Wallflower before hand, but it doesn't matter since his strategy would be the same no matter what.

I don't know if Wallflower would be able to get info on Creel, but his name kind of let's her know what he can do. it doesn't really matter for her either because her tactics would basically be the same no matter what as well.


Okay, so the very first thing Creel would do is start absorbing Asgard. He's done it before and he knows it made him ridiculously powerful, so he'd do it again instantly. Wallflower would try and secrete her pheremones into him, but like I said earlier, he survived space. By surviving in space, Creel has shown that he doesn't need to breathe. Add this to the extra resistance he has from absorbing Asgard and Wallflower is bascially powerless against him. After thsi, she has nothign else that can really harm him or anything, so he would make short work of her.


Winner- Absorbing Man

 

[Hellstormer]

Match 6:

Gorgon (HELLSTORMER) bio

vs.

Jesse Bedlam (JEWISHHOBBIT) bio

This is a fairly easy battle, lemme list the powers.

Gorgon:Superhuman strength and resilience,
Ability to generate seismic shockwaves

Jesse:Ability to disable any electronic equipment,
Ability to scan and perceive existing energy fields,
Ability to scramble the human brain's neural chemistry

Now Gorgon isn't exactly human so the neural scrambler might have limited effects on him and the fact his Jesse's fighting skills wouldn't work against the Inhumans royal gladiator. Not to mention the long distance capabilities of Gorgon's hoove making it nearly impossible for Jesse to stay up and use his powers or fight.

Winner=Gorgon

 

[JewishHobbit]

Holy Crap! Three matches in one thread! Voting will be easy for this one

I'll get my write ups in probably tomorrow, if not then Sunday.

 

[JewishHobbit]

Wallflower (House of M) Vs Absorbing Man

Okay, so at first glance it seems that Wallflower will be beat down in this match, but she's got one heck of a good shot at winning this one. First off, I will agree that Absorbing Man is at an advantage in this match, no denying it. He is stronger, more versatile powers, and familiar with the location. He can use Asgard as a weapon and he can do pretty much anything he wants. But there's several things that Wallflower has going for her, and in this case, I think Absorbing Man's lack of intel, and knowledge, will be what loses this match for him.

First off, powers. I think we all know Absorbing man, or at least get the gist, but Wallflower's are less known, so here's the deal:

Okay, now I can't find a good bio on Laurie from the House of M, but I'll fill you in here. First off, Laurie's powers are that of pheromones. She can emit them from her skin and another person smells them and they bring out whatever emotion she chooses. She can make a person happy, sad, angry, etc. She can make people even so extreme where they are so unhappy that they choose to commit suicide, she can make a person so angry that they go on a blood rage, she can make someone so afraid that they would just hide and cower while crying, afraid of something as small as a spec of dust.

Now that sounds good, and while the 616 Laurie is mediocre at using the powers, the House of M version is quite a bit differant. Her powers are the same, but she's highly skilled at them and lethal. She's a trained agent of SHIELD. She is also slightly crazy and will (and did) use them to kill people, even friends. Her powers are not telepathically based, but rather, proved to be superior. She proved this in the House of M when she convinced Quentin Quire (Kid Omega) to commit suicide, forcing him to telepathically shut off his own brain. She was able to turn all of the Hellions and New Mutants against one another, making them kill quite a few of their own numbers. She can omit so many pheromones that they fill a room and many people simoultaneously. She is a major threat.

Okay, so that leads into my debate. Absorbing Man is the toughest foe that she would ever have to face. The bonus in that is that while the name "Wallflower" gives Absorbing Man nothing to guess from, "Absorbing Man" gives Wallflower enough information to figure out the basis of Absorbing Man's powers. Heck, he's a well known villain. A common internet search should give Laurie all the information she needs to take into this match. She'll go in knowing her foe, whereas A.M. won't know a thing about her, save she's a pretty petite little girl, and that's it. The location is nothing for Laurie, but it is a BIG advantage for Absorbing Man, as stated, but honestly, he won't have a chance to utilize it.

The match would begin. Wallflower is an intelligent girl and well trained, she will begin searching for Absorbing Man. A.M. isn't very bright, but he'll know he must be stronger, and so I can see him absorbing Asgard or whatever he can to make himself stronger. While it is possible that A.M. may be able to hold his breath... why would he? What could possibly make him think "Maybe I shouldn't breath"? He wouldn't. He'd breath, as it comes naturally. He can take on any substance he wants and do whatever the heck he chooses, but as long as he breaths (and he does) then he's still Laurie's to play with.

Now, Absorbing Man's never been the subtle type, so I figure it'd be easy for Laurie to find him. If this is the case, then the match is pretty much set. Laurie is a quick attacker. When she was in danger in the House of M comics from being discovered by Kid Omega, she instantly made him commit suicide and killed him. She will know that this Absorbing Man is a challenge, and so she'll quickly try to kill him. She will instantly begin to quickly secret her pheromones, and no matter how large A.M. is, he'll still be effected, as she can omit tons, enough to get the job done anyhow. He will begin to feel so horrendously suicidal, that he will commit suicide. This may seem too easy of a win, but it's in character and what Laurie has shown what she would do.

She can see that Absorbing Man is absorbing and becoming what's around him, and so she will convince him to release it all and go back to normal, and then make him break his own neck. Or she could just make him absorb the air and discipate himself. She can make him do whatever the heck he wants, and she won't even have to lift a finger, or get close. She can stand at a distance and just control him.

Honestly, unless my opponant can convince you that Absorbing Man chooses not to breath.... he CANNOT beat Laurie. He can't smell the pheremones, and even sharp minded individuals do not resist her. People of Magic are effected (as shown by Illyana Rasputin, as Magik, when she is controled... at least I'm pretty sure she's a sorcerous). The only person that can resist her is Mercury, because she doesn't breath.

So that's the debate... if someone dimwitted as Absorbing Man with no information on Wallflower can somehow randomly decide to not breath, then he can win the match. If he breaths at all once the match begins, then he's under Laurie's control, and he commits suicide and loses the match.

Laurie was a powerful but underestimated character, and we saw why in the House of M. She has the power to beat Absorbing Man, easily, it's just up to the readers to see that.

Winner - Wallflower (House of M)

 

[JewishHobbit]

Okay, interesting match because it pits Absorbing Man, a slugger, against Wallflower, someone more known for winning without fighting. Even though these two have completely different styles, Absorbing Man just overpowers Wallflower in this match.

I beg to differ. Absorbing Man's powers are more powerful in a slugfest type of match, but I think Laurie's powers are by far the greater threat and most powerful overall.

Powers:
Absorbing Man...absorbs stuff. He can take on teh properties of anythign he absorbs, and he can absorb almost anything. He can turn into diamond, wood, even absorb magical things greatly augmenting his durability and strength. He has also recently been shown to be able to control people with his mind.

Laurie can just make him turn all this off on a whim and he'll just say "yes ma'am". Also, if he can still control people with his mind, it doesn't matter... Laurie's powers are greater than that of telepaths, as proven when she took out Kid Omega.

Wallflower emits a pheremone that allows her to control the emotions her opponent has. From what I know, she doesn't really control their direct actions, but she can make them feel happy, or very scared etc.

She actually has great control over her foes actions. She specficially told Kid Omega what he'd do, and he did it without hesitation. She can pinpoint someone and tell them exactly what she wants to do, and they do it.

Location is a HUGE advantage for Creel here. He has been to Asgard before. Hell, he has absorbed Asgard before, and it gave him a HUGE power boost and allowed him to actually defeat Odin himself in combat (although to be fair, Odin won in the end because he tricked Creel and sent him into space).

Thing is, what good is all that power and advantage if he can't utilize it? Absorbing Man can be as powerful as he was in Earth X (20 times powerful than this version) and still it wouldnt' matter. Laurie would make him depower himself and he'd be normal old Creed... or he'd make him somehow kill himself with his own powers. Any number of things.

Okay, so Creel wouldn't really get any info on Wallflower before hand, but it doesn't matter since his strategy would be the same no matter what.

Agree on this

I don't know if Wallflower would be able to get info on Creel, but his name kind of let's her know what he can do. it doesn't really matter for her either because her tactics would basically be the same no matter what as well.

I think she'd know him, as he's a common villain. He's a known baddie that a computer search can find enough info to know what he does and his mindset. She'd come in completely prepared.

Okay, so the very first thing Creel would do is start absorbing Asgard. He's done it before and he knows it made him ridiculously powerful, so he'd do it again instantly.

I agree

Wallflower would try and secrete her pheremones into him, but like I said earlier, he survived space. By surviving in space, Creel has shown that he doesn't need to breathe. Add this to the extra resistance he has from absorbing Asgard and Wallflower is bascially powerless against him. After thsi, she has nothign else that can really harm him or anything, so he would make short work of her.

Completely Wrong on this regard. He can survive in space, showing he can hold his breath... but why would he hold his breath in asgard? There's no reason for him to do so, and since he won't know anything about Wallflower, there's no reason for him to do it now. He can have whatever resistance he wants, but it sill doesn't change the fact that he breaths. If he breaths, he loses, that simple. She can harm him, take control of him, kill him, make him cry like a baby, or make him pick his nose so hard he puts a hole in his brain.

Just because he shows he don't have to breath, doesn't mean he won't. Breathing is his common state, and he'll do it in this match. As long as he's breathing when Laurie gets her first pheremones out, he's done for. Honestly... I don't see how Absorbing Man has a chance with this match.

Winner - Wallflower (House of M)

 

[JewishHobbit]

Jesse Bedlam Vs Gorgon

Gorgon's a cool character, and Jesse isn't as cool, but this is a match Jesse can win. It's a physical battle, placing it in Jesse's ball field. Neither would know anything about each other, and the location does nothing for either character. Gorgon would know nothing about Jesse, as he's a very minut character, but if I'm not mistaken, the Inhumans are known by the government. Jesse would have his government contacts through X-Force (remember, this is during their Counter X days) and I'm going to assume that he can learn about Gorgon, or at least basic info about him through that. So that puts Jesse at a slight advantage.

Now as for the match... Gorgon is at an advantage in that he is more experienced, but it will turn on him quickly. He is hotheaded and that will hurt him. The main thing is that Gorgon will probably announce himself, possibly even send a shockwave at him, knocking him to the ground. Thing is, that's as far as it would go.

From there Jesse will do as he did in the scans below, and get Gorgon's mind to believe that his legs have broken. Gorgon will be in much pain and won't be able to walk, let alone stomp. He will know that he isn't actually hurt, but it won't matter, his brain is telling him he is hurting and there's nothing he can do about it. Below are the scans showing Jesse doing this...

If his powers work on aliens, humans, mutants, and other creatures... I don't see why they wouldn't work on an Inhuman. This attack is a line of sight attack, so as long as Gorgon doesn't do a sneak attack (and he typically doesn't) then Jesse's got this in the bag. As he made the woman (a trained assassin) pass out from pain (by making her brain fall asleep and fall into a coma I believe, haven't read it in a while) he will do the same to Gorgon, winning the match.

In a physical fight, especially one where the initial attack doesn't take Jesse out, Jesse can win the match, and he will win this one as well. Gorgon's going down.

Winner - Jesse Bedlam

 

[JewishHobbit]

This is a fairly easy battle, lemme list the powers.

Gorgon:Superhuman strength and resilience,
Ability to generate seismic shockwaves

Jesse:Ability to disable any electronic equipment,
Ability to scan and perceive existing energy fields,
Ability to scramble the human brain's neural chemistry

Now Gorgon isn't exactly human so the neural scrambler might have limited effects on him and the fact his Jesse's fighting skills wouldn't work against the Inhumans royal gladiator. Not to mention the long distance capabilities of Gorgon's hoove making it nearly impossible for Jesse to stay up and use his powers or fight.

Winner=Gorgon

You've serverely underestimated Jesse. I agree that his fighting skills won't do much against Gorgon, and I'm assuming that he'll know that to and won't even try to go that route. He's no one to go that route anyhow truth be told. Gorgon has long range attacks, but so does Jesse. I can easily see Gorgon getting the first shockwave out, and then leaping for his foe, but while Jesse will be taken down by the shockwave, he will be quick to focus on Gorgon, and it will be checkmate. Jesse just sees Gorgon and 'CRACK' his legs are now useless and his powers rendered unusable. From there he will put him into a coma, and he'll be down for the count.

Winner - Jesse Bedlam

 

[Hellstormer]

J

Now as for the match... Gorgon is at an advantage in that he is more experienced, but it will turn on him quickly. He is hotheaded and that will hurt him. The main thing is that Gorgon will probably announce himself, possibly even send a shockwave at him, knocking him to the ground. Thing is, that's as far as it would go.

That's within character, but not the stopping part. Gorgon was born and raised a warrior. He finds vantage points and uses them until they're dry.

From there Jesse will do as he did in the scans below, and get Gorgon's mind to believe that his legs have broken. Gorgon will be in much pain and won't be able to walk, let alone stomp. He will know that he isn't actually hurt, but it won't matter, his brain is telling him he is hurting and there's nothing he can do about it. Below are the scans showing Jesse doing this...

*note: took the pictures out to make the page as short as possible, scans above^*Gorgon is a fighter, he's not one to give up because of pain. That has always been the draw to him. He never quits even when near death. He's a noble warrior that lives and dies by the sword. A broken leg and a little pain means nothing to a warrior of his calibur.

In a physical fight, especially one where the initial attack doesn't take Jesse out, Jesse can win the match, and he will win this one as well. Gorgon's going down.

The innitial attack will knock him off balance and then a stream of other attacks will hammer him.

You've serverely underestimated Jesse.

Admitted but I was not familier with the charaxter...at all.

Winner=Gorgon
Jeez three straight matches with you.

 

[JewishHobbit]

That's within character, but not the stopping part. Gorgon was born and raised a warrior. He finds vantage points and uses them until they're dry.

*note: took the pictures out to make the page as short as possible, scans above^*Gorgon is a fighter, he's not one to give up because of pain. That has always been the draw to him. He never quits even when near death. He's a noble warrior that lives and dies by the sword. A broken leg and a little pain means nothing to a warrior of his calibur.

Thing is, though he knows he won't give up, the pain is still there. He has two broken legs and his legs won't work because they will believe that they are broken as well. Unless he learns to walk on his hands, he won't be doing much of anything. And if he does try to keep it up, Bedlam can just place him into a coma and take him out.

The innitial attack will knock him off balance and then a stream of other attacks will hammer him.

If my initial idea works, these other attacks will never get the chance to come.

Admitted but I was not familier with the charaxter...at all.

Winner=Gorgon
Jeez three straight matches with you.

Not many do know Bedlam unless they've been X-Fans for a while now. He was a lame character until the Counter X run, then he became interesting... the he died off panel... sucky.

And yeah, stop trying to beat me I Am THE GREATEST!

 

[JewishHobbit]

Shatterstar Vs Gambit

I'm so mad, I just typed up a great debate for this match and my daughter just messed it up and somehow got rid of it. Okay, so here I go again.

This is one of those matches where it could go either way and have a differant outcome 10 times out of 10. Each character knows one another well and have probably fought in the past. The location does nothing for either one either.

We all know Gambit... but here's Shatterstar's bio:

Shatterstar possesses enhanced strength, speed, agility, and reflexes as a result of the extra dimensional genetic engineering that created him. He is an excellent strategist and has had extensive training in many forms of the martial arts of Mojoworld; in particular, he is a master swordsman. His bones are hollow, making him far lighter than he looks and further increasing his athletic skill. Enhanced learning capabilities, quickly understanding languages and technology. He customarily wields two swords and on occasion carries other weaponry as well. Shatterstar is able to regenerate damaged or destroyed tissue much faster than an ordinary human. Injuries such as slashes, puncture wounds, and bullet wounds heal completely within a matter of hours. He has also has the mutant ability to channel and generate powerful vibratory shock waves and bio-energy through these blades.

They mention his healing factor, but it isn't very accurate. In X-Force 31 I believe, he was fighting in Arcade's place and rammed his own sword through his own chest. A few minutes later he healed and won the day. The bio says it takes hours, but that's an example to show that that is not the case. This dude has a major healing factor!

Okay, so I'll lay out how Shatterstar is better than Gambit and why he'd win this one, and I'll let it be, as it's really hard to debate this.

Preptime: Gambit will probably go sleep around, party, or just relax in preparation... whereas Shatterstar is a warrior and will more steadily prepare. He will know Gambit and will probably train his body in preparation for a battle with him. He will find video of Gambit (as I'm this won't be a problem) and he will study Gambit's moves, his fighting style, his powers, etc. He will prepare himself completely for this match. I think Shatterstar will utilize preptime much better than Gambit.

Now to compare traits:

Agility, Strength, reflexes, and Speed: While Gambit isn't lacking in these, he's not gifted in them. Shatterstar has genetically enhanced agility, speed, reflexes, and strength, and so in that regard, he is placed over Gambit. And to add to this, he really knows how to use these traits to his advantage as well, as he did so daily for years, and continues to do so. He keeps these traits sharp, so he will be in tip top shape to take out Gambit.

Durability: Both are durable, but while Gambit can tire and succumb to wounds, Shatterstar can heal as he fights. Simply put, he can outlast Gambit.

Hand to Hand: Again, Gambit isn't lacking, but Shatterstar is just superior. He's raised in constant battle and hand to hand is his fortay. Gambit is pretty mean with his staff, but it's pretty juvenile compared to the hand fighting skills of Shatterstar. Gambit trained to be a thief all his life, whereas Shatterstar trained for just this type of thing. If it comes down to Hand to Hand, Shatterstar owns this match!

Energy projection/range: The one category where Gambit truly has an advantage... however, this won't win it for him, as Shatterstar isn't defenseless to this. His advanced agility and reflexes will help him dodge much of this, and his healing will help him heal from it. He is familiar with Gambit's powers, and so he will expect it. Also, though he doesn't use it often, Shatterstar is not without his own powers. He can fire an energy blast from his swords. Gambit would nto expect this as he seldom does it, but he could pull it out and get himself an edge in this regard.

There we go. I won't go into detail of the match because it could go any number of ways, so I'll leave the above info for you to read and vote off of. I believe that it's enough to prove that Shatterstar can pull this one out over Gambit.

Winner - Shatterstar

 

[kytrigger]

Rebuttal

Wallflower (House of M) Vs Absorbing Man

Okay, so at first glance it seems that Wallflower will be beat down in this match, but she's got one heck of a good shot at winning this one. First off, I will agree that Absorbing Man is at an advantage in this match, no denying it. He is stronger, more versatile powers, and familiar with the location. He can use Asgard as a weapon and he can do pretty much anything he wants. But there's several things that Wallflower has going for her, and in this case, I think Absorbing Man's lack of intel, and knowledge, will be what loses this match for him.

agree..except for the "absorbing man losing" part of course

Now that sounds good, and while the 616 Laurie is mediocre at using the powers, the House of M version is quite a bit differant. Her powers are the same, but she's highly skilled at them and lethal. She's a trained agent of SHIELD. She is also slightly crazy and will (and did) use them to kill people, even friends. Her powers are not telepathically based, but rather, proved to be superior. She proved this in the House of M when she convinced Quentin Quire (Kid Omega) to commit suicide, forcing him to telepathically shut off his own brain. She was able to turn all of the Hellions and New Mutants against one another, making them kill quite a few of their own numbers. She can omit so many pheromones that they fill a room and many people simoultaneously. She is a major threat.

Agree except for one HUGE factor on her powers. Range. Since her powers are biological and not psychic she has a very set range for her powers to work.

The match would begin. Wallflower is an intelligent girl and well trained, she will begin searching for Absorbing Man. A.M. isn't very bright, but he'll know he must be stronger, and so I can see him absorbing Asgard or whatever he can to make himself stronger. While it is possible that A.M. may be able to hold his breath... why would he? What could possibly make him think "Maybe I shouldn't breath"? He wouldn't. He'd breath, as it comes naturally. He can take on any substance he wants and do whatever the heck he chooses, but as long as he breaths (and he does) then he's still Laurie's to play with.

How do you know for certain that he breathes? There is evidence that he doesn't have to breathe, so why would he? He is a magical creature and his anatomy is completely different form a human or mutant. This is especialyl true when he is absorbing Asgard and is a mixture of magic, stone, and metal. When he absorbs these thigns, this is what he is composed of. i have never sene stone or metal affected by pheremones.

Now, Absorbing Man's never been the subtle type, so I figure it'd be easy for Laurie to find him. If this is the case, then the match is pretty much set. Laurie is a quick attacker. When she was in danger in the House of M comics from being discovered by Kid Omega, she instantly made him commit suicide and killed him. She will know that this Absorbing Man is a challenge, and so she'll quickly try to kill him. She will instantly begin to quickly secret her pheromones, and no matter how large A.M. is, he'll still be effected, as she can omit tons, enough to get the job done anyhow. He will begin to feel so horrendously suicidal, that he will commit suicide. This may seem too easy of a win, but it's in character and what Laurie has shown what she would do.

Yes, it would be very easy for her to spot Creel since he would be absorbing Asgard and would be over 100 feet tall. This brings up another point. Wallflower's pheremones are just liek all other pheremones, and they don't have that great of a distance. Those pheremones of hers actualyl have to get all the way up to Creel's nose before he just decides to step on her. Another thig is that she just emits pheremones. She can't control really where they go (they just go inall directions). It's not like she can "shoot" a blast of pheremones in his face. All she can do is emit them and pray to god they even reach him.

Honestly, unless my opponant can convince you that Absorbing Man chooses not to breath.... he CANNOT beat Laurie. He can't smell the pheremones, and even sharp minded individuals do not resist her. People of Magic are effected (as shown by Illyana Rasputin, as Magik, when she is controled... at least I'm pretty sure she's a sorcerous). The only person that can resist her is Mercury, because she doesn't breath.

First I'll adress teh Illyana comment.

Illyana isn't magical. She can cast spells, but she is a normal mutant. Creel is actually magical in nature. he doesn't cast spells or anything, he is just made up of magic. VERY different.

Also, the pheremones won't even get to him or affect him. He's not a normal human/mutant. He is magical, going to be composed of stone and steel, and will have a ridiculous amount of magical restistance as well. Every single thign that has been shown about Creel shows that he is completly different from humans now. He doesn't need to eat, drink, breathe or anyting, so if ALL of these thigns are differnet, why would the one thing that is the same be that he is affected by pheremones like humans? That makes no sense.

So that's the debate... if someone dimwitted as Absorbing Man with no information on Wallflower can somehow randomly decide to not breath, then he can win the match. If he breaths at all once the match begins, then he's under Laurie's control, and he commits suicide and loses the match.

I see the debate more like:

1) Creel doesn't need to breathe, eat, sleep, or do anyting else that normal humans/mutants must do. His anatomy is completly differnt and magical, so why would pheremones stilll affect him the same way?

2) Could the pheremones even reach Creel? he is going to be HUGE during this fight just like he was the last time he absorbed Asgard. The pheremones (not known for being able to travel long distances) have to still go all the way up to his nose before he just steps on Wallflower.

3) Creel is not onyl magical, but he is made of the thigns he abosrbs, which in the case of Asgard would be stone, metal, and magic. Coudl the pheremones even pass through his stone and steel menbrane to affect him?

There are just way too many factors for Wallflower to overcome in this match.


Winner - Absorbing Man

 

[kytrigger]

Rebuttal

Laurie can just make him turn all this off on a whim and he'll just say "yes ma'am". Also, if he can still control people with his mind, it doesn't matter... Laurie's powers are greater than that of telepaths, as proven when she took out Kid Omega.

They are greater than telepaths when they are in her limited range. Absorbing Man has shown the ability to control people over a large distance, and if he did use this method (not saying he would necessarily) she would be helpless. Not the normal route for him to defeat people, but he has done it before.

She actually has great control over her foes actions. She specficially told Kid Omega what he'd do, and he did it without hesitation. She can pinpoint someone and tell them exactly what she wants to do, and they do it.

okay. I agree

Thing is, what good is all that power and advantage if he can't utilize it? Absorbing Man can be as powerful as he was in Earth X (20 times powerful than this version) and still it wouldnt' matter. Laurie would make him depower himself and he'd be normal old Creed... or he'd make him somehow kill himself with his own powers. Any number of things.

Obviously the main debate here is whether or not her powers would even work on Creel, which I went into in detail on my last rebuttal. From here on, I'll just stop commenting on this part since it's repetetive

I think she'd know him, as he's a common villain. He's a known baddie that a computer search can find enough info to know what he does and his mindset. She'd come in completely prepared.

amd her being compeltely prepared by knowing internet info would be the exact same as the way she would come inif she knew nothing. Both characters would do the exact same strategy no matter what.

Completely Wrong on this regard. He can survive in space, showing he can hold his breath... but why would he hold his breath in asgard? There's no reason for him to do so, and since he won't know anything about Wallflower, there's no reason for him to do it now. He can have whatever resistance he wants, but it sill doesn't change the fact that he breaths. If he breaths, he loses, that simple. She can harm him, take control of him, kill him, make him cry like a baby, or make him pick his nose so hard he puts a hole in his brain.

when has it ever shown that he actualyl does breathe? His entire anatomy is different than a human and I have at elast shown a case where he doesn't breathe. Can you show me a case where he actually does breathe? Also, can you show me in any place where Absorbing Man actually has teh same biologicalk anatomy of a normal human. he doesn't eat or drink, so why would pheremones affect him like they would a normal human? it just makes no sense that everythign about him woul dbe different except for pheremones.

Just because he shows he don't have to breath, doesn't mean he won't.

it doesn't mean he will either. At least there is evidence of him not breathing.

Breathing is his common state, and he'll do it in this match.

No, it was his common state when he was alive. So was eating and drinking, bu the doesn't do those either. If anytign, I think his months in space not breathing would have broken him of the breathing habit.

As long as he's breathing when Laurie gets her first pheremones out, he's done for.

Completely wrong. I have shown he doesn't need to breathe, that he is a magical creature with magical resistances, will be over 100 feet tall so her phereomens won't even reach him, AND has in no way the same pysiology of a human. her pheremones are obsolete

Honestly... I don't see how Absorbing Man has a chance with this match.

funny, I don't see how Wallflower can last more than 30 seconds in this match.

Winner - Absorbing Man

 

[JewishHobbit]

Agree except for one HUGE factor on her powers. Range. Since her powers are biological and not psychic she has a very set range for her powers to work.

Honestly, it seems very braud from her comic appearances.

How do you know for certain that he breathes? There is evidence that he doesn't have to breathe, so why would he? He is a magical creature and his anatomy is completely different form a human or mutant. This is especialyl true when he is absorbing Asgard and is a mixture of magic, stone, and metal. When he absorbs these thigns, this is what he is composed of. i have never sene stone or metal affected by pheremones.

In the Marvel Knights: Spiderman "Wild Blue Yonder" arc, he snorts cocaine through his nose and becomes cocaine. He's got to breath to be able to suck it up his nose like that... thus, that's good enough reason for me to believe he breaths. Don't think it is? Try sucking something up your nose without breathing! He can possibly not breath if he chooses, but he's a human first and formost and it's instinct to breath if it's possible, so he'll be breathing.

And out of curiosity, what was going on when he was thrown into space? What about his powers did he absorb to help him not breath? Just curious.

And as for becoming magic, steel, etc... doesn't matter. As long as he's breathing, he's controlled.

Yes, it would be very easy for her to spot Creel since he would be absorbing Asgard and would be over 100 feet tall. This brings up another point. Wallflower's pheremones are just liek all other pheremones, and they don't have that great of a distance. Those pheremones of hers actualyl have to get all the way up to Creel's nose before he just decides to step on her. Another thig is that she just emits pheremones. She can't control really where they go (they just go inall directions). It's not like she can "shoot" a blast of pheremones in his face. All she can do is emit them and pray to god they even reach him.

In House of M, she shows great control with Kid Omega's getting taken over. And he fills a whole building full of them. I don't think it'd be hard for her to get them to Creel's nose. Not to mention that she won't waste time getting to Creel when he starts to grow. I really don't think his size will be much of a problem.

First I'll adress teh Illyana comment.

Illyana isn't magical. She can cast spells, but she is a normal mutant. Creel is actually magical in nature. he doesn't cast spells or anything, he is just made up of magic. VERY different.

I'll give you that one. However, I don't see what about magic will do anything to protect him from her pheromones. To the best of my knowledge, the magic specifically hasn't prevented any other type of power. It just gives him his abilities.

Also, the pheremones won't even get to him or affect him. He's not a normal human/mutant. He is magical, going to be composed of stone and steel, and will have a ridiculous amount of magical restistance as well. Every single thign that has been shown about Creel shows that he is completly different from humans now.

Again, I don't see how the magic will change anything. It isn't a shield of armor that prevents bad things. It helps him absorb and copy... that' show the magic worked on him. His magic doesn't work how you're stating. The rest of this is up to the debaters to decide, but personally, his not being a normal human isn't a big deal. Who in this tounament is?

He doesn't need to eat, drink, breathe or anyting, so if ALL of these thigns are differnet, why would the one thing that is the same be that he is affected by pheremones like humans? That makes no sense.

I think you're assuming too much on the first line there, leading to the rest of this part to be meaningless. He does breath (as per my earlier mention of MK Spiderman) and he has no reason to go into this match planning not to. And the state of his skin and boy doesn't matter, as long as he's breathing. And again, can you prove he doesn't eat or drink? They're basic functions, so unless you can prove otherwise, I think it's safe to assume he does these things. In that same MK Spiderman arc, he is shown swollowing pills as well... so I think that can show that he eats. (who knew he was such a druggy!)

I see the debate more like:

1) Creel doesn't need to breathe, eat, sleep, or do anyting else that normal humans/mutants must do. His anatomy is completly differnt and magical, so why would pheremones stilll affect him the same way?

2) Could the pheremones even reach Creel? he is going to be HUGE during this fight just like he was the last time he absorbed Asgard. The pheremones (not known for being able to travel long distances) have to still go all the way up to his nose before he just steps on Wallflower.

3) Creel is not onyl magical, but he is made of the thigns he abosrbs, which in the case of Asgard would be stone, metal, and magic. Coudl the pheremones even pass through his stone and steel menbrane to affect him?

I think I've proven why none of these will be the case.

There are just way too many factors for Wallflower to overcome in this match.

I think you're creating factors that aren't really there (respectfully, it's the route I'd take if I were you as well, though I wouldn't buy it then either). He can eat, he can breath, he can drink.... those aren't factors. His skin will be made of stuff that's odd, but that doesn't matter one lick... he breaths, and that's what matters.

The only real point I think you've made is his potential size and Laurie's distance, but I think she can cover the distance. Pheremones and such are carried on winds, and if he's sucking everything into himself, absorbing it, the winds will be a roaring, and they'll make it up to his nose eventually. Even if Laurie can't get them there herself (and I still think she can) the wind can take them to his nose for her. With so much shifting due to his absorbing, I think it's safe to assume wishing motions and winds will be created, if not there already.

Winner - Wallflower (House of M)

 

[JewishHobbit]

Hey,... another thought!

When Absorbing Man is popping the pills in the MK Spiderman story, a few panels later they start to take effect on him. If simple pills will work with his biology the same it would us, I think that shows that his biology can't be that differant. If the pills will work, so will Laurie's pheremones. He's also in metal form during this, so it doesn't matter that his outer form isn't normal... it still applies on the inside.

Once again... Winner - Wallflower (House of M)

 

[JewishHobbit]

Well, I'm going to take a break for the night. To be continued.... unless you want to concede the match.

 

[kytrigger]

Hey,... another thought!

When Absorbing Man is popping the pills in the MK Spiderman story, a few panels later they start to take effect on him. If simple pills will work with his biology the same it would us, I think that shows that his biology can't be that differant. If the pills will work, so will Laurie's pheremones. He's also in metal form during this, so it doesn't matter that his outer form isn't normal... it still applies on the inside.

Once again... Winner - Wallflower (House of M)

I'll just respond to all the ihaling/drug abuse in this rebuttal so as not to needlessly take up space.

Yes, he inhaled cocaine, but that is not the sme as breathing. I know it sounds stupid, but scientifically it is very different ( and I use science, since that is what her powers are based on) Breathign is also taking in oxygen, and having that oxygen go into the bloodstream and into the brain. He can still inhale, and still not have it do these things. in fact, the cocaine is evidence of this, because he has to actually absorb teh cocaine for it to take affect. By the same token, breathign is actualyl absorbing oxygen into your system. If he was still absorbing oxygen into his system by breathing, then he would actually be in a gaseous state the entire time, which he is not.

The same can easily be said for the pills. He absorbs them into himself as to feel the effects. Absorbing Man may not be that bright, but he is VERY good at controlling what he absorbs. He basically controls every single thing he touches and chooses whether or not to absorb it.

The absolute worst case scenario is that if he abosrbed her pheremones, he would actaulyl become pheremones himself. In this condition, she can't hurt him anyway and can't control him (she can't actually control teh pheremones themselves once they leave her body, they're just normal pheremones). He would basically just keep going until he was out of her striking distance and reconstitute himself. He woudl nto only then know whast her powers are, but in all likelihood, she would think he was dead. her guard would be let down and he would strike.


Also, abotu the space thing. From what I remember, he didn't absorb anything while in space to survive. He basically just floated there. He could survive, but had no real way to propel himslef anywhere. Eventually he Latched onto a meteor and absorbed that so he could control the trajectory and shot himself back towards earth.

 

[kytrigger]

Well, I'm going to take a break for the night. To be continued.... unless you want to concede the match.

gee, it's tempting, but I'll think I stick this one out. We can debate more later on (although I think we are almost to the point where we both just leave it alone and let the voters decide)

 

[Hellstormer]

Thing is, though he knows he won't give up, the pain is still there. He has two broken legs and his legs won't work because they will believe that they are broken as well. Unless he learns to walk on his hands, he won't be doing much of anything. And if he does try to keep it up, Bedlam can just place him into a coma and take him out.

He can still fight with his two arms using basic grappling techniques. He fought many battles, I'm sure he has found a way to overcome that handicap. It comes down to expierience and in this case there's nothing Gorgon can't overcome. And after that first hit Jesse won't get a chance to make that happen.

Not many do know Bedlam unless they've been X-Fans for a while now. He was a lame character until the Counter X run, then he became interesting... the he died off panel... sucky.

Cuz he is weak in comparision to Gorgon.

And yeah, stop trying to beat me I Am THE GREATEST!

In the immortal words of Hulk "Me strongest there is."

 

[Iceman]

GAMESMASTER Vs MYSTERIO

BRACKET 4,

Match 5:

Mysterio (PRIMEMOVER) bio

vs.

Gamesmaster (ICEMAN/PSYLOCKE) bio

As my omega level debating skills have gone into retirement (for the foreseeable future) I will let mutanthigh.com put up a token defence for this character. t:

Gamesmaster is an omnipath, a telepath so powerful that he can hear the thoughts of every being on the planet.

WINNER = GAMESMASTER

 

[JewishHobbit]

Yeah, I think we're about to the standstill part of the match so I'll respond to this then I'm willing to let it go to the voters.

I'll just respond to all the ihaling/drug abuse in this rebuttal so as not to needlessly take up space.

Yes, he inhaled cocaine, but that is not the sme as breathing. I know it sounds stupid, but scientifically it is very different ( and I use science, since that is what her powers are based on) Breathign is also taking in oxygen, and having that oxygen go into the bloodstream and into the brain. He can still inhale, and still not have it do these things. in fact, the cocaine is evidence of this, because he has to actually absorb teh cocaine for it to take affect. By the same token, breathign is actualyl absorbing oxygen into your system. If he was still absorbing oxygen into his system by breathing, then he would actually be in a gaseous state the entire time, which he is not.

I think this is almost stretching it a bit, but I think I'll let the voters decide if they agree with me or not. To me, inhaling and breathing are the same. Science shmience. I think it's a good enough example to show that he breaths. Up to the voters.

The same can easily be said for the pills. He absorbs them into himself as to feel the effects. Absorbing Man may not be that bright, but he is VERY good at controlling what he absorbs. He basically controls every single thing he touches and chooses whether or not to absorb it.

I see no point to really debate this,,, it isn't important to the debate

The absolute worst case scenario is that if he abosrbed her pheremones, he would actaulyl become pheremones himself. In this condition, she can't hurt him anyway and can't control him (she can't actually control teh pheremones themselves once they leave her body, they're just normal pheremones). He would basically just keep going until he was out of her striking distance and reconstitute himself. He woudl nto only then know whast her powers are, but in all likelihood, she would think he was dead. her guard would be let down and he would strike.

What makes you think she can't control the pheremones? She sends them out, to people, and then uses the pheremones to control them. I think she controls the pheremones just fine. And if Creel does absorb the pheremones (if he even knows they're coming at him)... then that makes it easier for Laurie.

1) She CAN control pheremones, and if he absorbs her pheremones, they're in him even without his needing to breath, thus, he can then control him, as they'd still effect him (same as when he absorbed the cocaine and the pills, they effected him, so would these). She can then control him easier and it takes the whole breathing argument out of the argument.

2) If he does just kinda flitter away in pheremone pieces, would that effectively remove him from the playing field and end up with his defeat? He could pull himself together again, but I figure it'd take some time. When Sentry blew him up, it was considered a win, why not now? (granted, that fight took place during Civil War, but it's just an example).


So completely taking away the Breathing argument, if he CAN absorb the pheremones, then they are now in him and she can control them. He is then taken care of. She can make him discipate, kill himself, bow to her eternally, whatever. She would win the match then easily.

Winner - Wallflower (House of M)

 

[JewishHobbit]

He can still fight with his two arms using basic grappling techniques. He fought many battles, I'm sure he has found a way to overcome that handicap. It comes down to expierience and in this case there's nothing Gorgon can't overcome. And after that first hit Jesse won't get a chance to make that happen.

This is true, but can he win with grappling techniques? Possibly, but he'd have to keep Beldam out of his brain in order to do it, and that'd be very difficult. You can't stop a guy from mentally putting you into a coma with grappling techniques. Gorgon's going down!

And I'm okay with letting this match go to the voters at this point.

Winner - Jesse Bedlam