Daredevil Daredevil General Discussion Thread - Part 5

[DigificWriter]

Don't get me wrong; I like the MCU. It just doesn't feel to me like anything is truly gained by the show being set in that universe.

 

[Man in the Suit]

And it doesn't lose anything.

It just so cool knowing that Matt Murdock is on the streets while Spidey is swinging through buildings, and the Avengers are in the Tower or off fighting a global threat. That's what makes the MCU so interesting.

 

[DigificWriter]

It just so cool knowing that Matt Murdock is on the streets while Spidey is swinging through buildings, and the Avengers are in the Tower or off fighting a global threat. That's what makes the MCU so interesting.

What, exactly, is 'so cool' about Daredevil being part of the MCU if the series doesn't tangibly benefit in any way from being part of that universe?

Personally, I think that if you're going to make something part of a shared universe, said thing needs to benefit in some way from being part of said universe, and, at least in the episodes I've watched thus far, I'm not seeing anything that would strike me as being of tangible benefit for the series.

I guess what I'm saying, when you get right down to it, is that, as of now, I'm not really seeing the point of making the series part of the MCU and would really like to (see the point of doing so).

 

[Man in the Suit]

MATT MURDOCK AND STEVE ROGERS LIVE IN THE SAME UNIVERSE!! If that's not cool, then I don't know what to tell you.


Oh, and season 1's story is very much connected to the Battle of NY. There's that.

 

[DigificWriter]

^ Other than an offhand mention in Episode 1, I haven't noticed any real connection between The Avengers and this show.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

No connection? The entire plot of season one directly arises from the aftermath of the Chitauri invasion.

 

[DigificWriter]

I haven't gotten that feeling, but I AM only four episodes into the series.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

You should have mentioned that beforehand.

 

[FataLethal]

It's an added value and a good investment that DD is part of the MCU. Leave DD alone and establish its universe first if they want to giving the illusion that it is separated (like the Marvel Knights imprint). Then secondly connect him with the greater MCU if they want to extending his stories, themes, awesomeness to other characters. HOW COOL IS THAT?

 

[Whiskey Tango]

It's pretty cool.

 

[SirStrangefolk]

Loeb said he heard that the New York Bulletin will also be used in the movies in the future, and that he fully believes that a crossover between the netflix shows and other parts of the MCU is possible, if it seems like a good idea (and isn't too forced)

 

[HunBoy]

Jeph Loeb Reveals Details On The Future Of Marvel TV

http://mcuexchange.com/jeph-loeb-reveals-details-on-the-future-of-marvel-tv/

 

[Bruce Malone]

I don't have a problem with it existing in that universe, I just don't want anything forced on the show by Marvel that aren't part of the wishes of the show-runners.

They have Agents of Shield for that.

Besides getting into the DD comics now, especially the Bendis run, DD really does operate mostly like he's in his own universe. Very street and gritty.

 

[Spiderdevil]

^ Other than an offhand mention in Episode 1, I haven't noticed any real connection between The Avengers and this show.

Why does it need to be connected? I seriously don't get this obsession to make everything connected to 'The Avengers', it was tonically miles and miles away from 'The Avengers' or any other Marvel property for that matter and I am glad they kept the show as separate and not littered by stupid TA reference

As for expanding the MCU, Marvel plans to create a mini-universe for street level heroes, we will have Jessica Jones, Luke Cage, Iron Fist and finally 'The Defenders' in the near future, DD was the start just like Iron Man back in 2008

 

[Mai]

Im happy for it to be connected, although the tone does feel completely different in the series to the movies. For example my younger brother (11) absolutely adores marvel and the mcu, however could not get past the first few episodes of Daredevil because they were to violent for him. He doesn't want them to be connected because of this.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

... the tone in Winter Soldier is vastly different than avengers as well... just because something is connected or taking place in the same Universe does not mean it's appropriate for all ages...

and it's also what sets marvel apart... the whole universe they've built is pretty amazing and is a major appeal to the franchise.

 

[Naked Shia]

The winter soldier is still closer in tone than it is to daredevil though. It doesn't bother me that DD is in this shared universe though. I like how in season 1, it was basically about him dealing with the consequences of the avengers carelessness. They did nothing to save hell's kitchen, and it's up tp matt and his crew to try to save the neighbourhood.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

i don't understand the logic between people needing the same tonality of all these films.. that's the last thing they need ... it will get incredibly boring and formulaic if they keep it all the same

i look at things this way... do you want all comics to have the same tone? do you want your kid reading every comic out there? no... there's a reason why some people buy comics that others dont. same should go for movies.

 

[Mai]

Who said there was a need... If daredevil was to make an appearance in a future movie with the mcu cast, im pretty sure the violence would go from realistic to toned down, because thats what its like in the movies.

The different tones dont bother me personally at all. I loved daredevil, it was brilliant. My little brother assumed as it was in the mcu, the violence would be at the same level, but it wasnt, so he stopped watching, that is all.

(I was only reffering to the violence when i said tone, i didnt mean the storyline etc... I wasnt really clear)

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Who said there was a need... If daredevil was to make an appearance in a future movie with the mcu cast, im pretty sure the violence would go from realistic to toned down, because thats what its like in the movies.

The different tones dont bother me personally at all. I loved daredevil, it was brilliant. My little brother assumed as it was in the mcu, the violence would be at the same level, but it wasnt, so he stopped watching, that is all.

(I was only reffering to the violence when i said tone, i didnt mean the storyline etc... I wasnt really clear)

well daredevil would be depicted similarly to black widow in terms of fighting i'd imagine.. especially widow in the opening scene of hers in Avengers. which is a bit darker than the rest of the avengers.

also keep in mind, i doubt DD would be facing off against ruthless street villains in a cross-over film

 

[Mai]

Yeah thats true he would be, hopefully we will see it one day if its true hes signed on to the possibility of a movie appearance.

 

[Mike Murdock]

I don't have a problem with it existing in that universe, I just don't want anything forced on the show by Marvel that aren't part of the wishes of the show-runners.

They have Agents of Shield for that.

Besides getting into the DD comics now, especially the Bendis run, DD really does operate mostly like he's in his own universe. Very street and gritty.

Bendis's run is kind of anti-superhero in philosophy and is not entirely indicative of Daredevil as a whole. Even then, there's a crossover with Black Widow, who was a long-time girlfriend of Matt Murdock.

The defining author for Daredevil is Frank Miller. He did keep crossovers relatively light - with the exception of the most obvious example: The Kingpin. Without borrowing from Spider-Man, we wouldn't have Wilson Fisk on Daredevil. Likewise, he used the Punisher. Daredevil wasn't confined to Daredevil characters. Finally, read Born Again. There's a crossover with the Avengers from Matt's perspective that I think is very important (and an extended crossover with Captain America).

So even the runs that moved away from crossovers benefited from them (and none ever treated themselves as just in their own universe). On top of that, there are writers like Ann Nocenti, D.G. Chichester, Karl Kesel, Andy Diggle, and Mark Waid who made it clear Daredevil is not a character alone in his own world.

 

[Flint Marko]

What, exactly, is 'so cool' about Daredevil being part of the MCU if the series doesn't tangibly benefit in any way from being part of that universe?

Personally, I think that if you're going to make something part of a shared universe, said thing needs to benefit in some way from being part of said universe, and, at least in the episodes I've watched thus far, I'm not seeing anything that would strike me as being of tangible benefit for the series.

I guess what I'm saying, when you get right down to it, is that, as of now, I'm not really seeing the point of making the series part of the MCU and would really like to (see the point of doing so).

You're only four episodes in and questioning it's role/worth in the MCU? Knowing that Daredevil could possibly one day interact with Captain America and Iron Man is undeniably cool. Watching Kingpin chop someone's head off with a car was a great moment in and of itself, but knowing that somewhere out there in the night sky is a raccoon with a gun fighting alongside a talking tree makes the whole thing more expansive. You can't tell me that isn't cool.
And to bring up a better point, what does it hurt having them all in the same universe, especially since that's how these characters were created to begin with? They were all born in the same sandbox, and they play together very nicely. Again, it's worth mentioning that the catalyst for this entire series was the Avengers. The aliens tearing up Hells Kitchen is what Fisk used to get a foothold, and that set everything in motion.

 

[The Overlord]

I'd love Gladiator to appear some more. But, leaving him aside:
To me, Ann Nocenti created the best B-Villains (Miller elevated some previous ones to A-Villains, but didn't really create many new characters except the Hand, Brubaker also elevated a few, but they are corny ones like the Matador. I'd argue Bendis did the opposite and actually brought down some characters while making fun of others without elevating them). I suspect the season is crowded enough that any ones used will just be In Name Only as Easter Eggs to the fan (like the Masked Marauder in season one), but Bullet would be easy enough to adapt as a big strong guy and you have Ammo and the Wildboys as gang members. Moving away from early Nocenti, you could go with Shotgun as a guy who really loves military tech (and could sort of be an anti-Punisher in the military aspect of the story). Another example (one invented by Miller) would be Nuke. I'd prefer to save him for a Born Again adaptation, but he could be similar to Shotgun.

Man, Nocenti sure had a thing for gun based villains, most of the villains she created were gun related in some way.

I think the Wildboys would somewhat interesting, if they are a giant street gang rather just 2 or 3 guys, you can have the poor and desperate youths join the gang to make some money and have a place to belong. The Wildboys could be errand boys for more powerful crime bosses, doing the grunt work for them.

Cranston could be interesting as a corrupt lawyer with a past with Matt.

I like Bushwacker, but he would tricky to do on a TV budget and I'm not sure he would fit in with the more realistic tone they going for, though if they could make work and make him interesting (I do find him a very hit or miss character in the comics) then I would happy to see him, but he is not necessary.

But clearly the most important villain is the sinister Stilt-Man. t:

 

[Bruce Malone]

Bendis's run is kind of anti-superhero in philosophy and is not entirely indicative of Daredevil as a whole. Even then, there's a crossover with Black Widow, who was a long-time girlfriend of Matt Murdock.

The defining author for Daredevil is Frank Miller. He did keep crossovers relatively light - with the exception of the most obvious example: The Kingpin. Without borrowing from Spider-Man, we wouldn't have Wilson Fisk on Daredevil. Likewise, he used the Punisher. Daredevil wasn't confined to Daredevil characters. Finally, read Born Again. There's a crossover with the Avengers from Matt's perspective that I think is very important (and an extended crossover with Captain America).

So even the runs that moved away from crossovers benefited from them (and none ever treated themselves as just in their own universe). On top of that, there are writers like Ann Nocenti, D.G. Chichester, Karl Kesel, Andy Diggle, and Mark Waid who made it clear Daredevil is not a character alone in his own world.

I know what you're saying but truthfully the Bendis run reminds me the most of the show actually.

I don't think the show has to fit in all versions and interpretations of DD they should just find the one that fits it best. I think the Bendis vision is the best compromise between superhero and street which seems to be the direction the show is going.

I did enjoy the Black Widow crossover in the comics and I think her character is one of the superhero types that works in the DD world.

The Punisher being another obvious one.