Daredevil Daredevil General Discussion Thread - Part 8

Lilbaz said:
Agree. The "it's all connected" line was a bollox. Which i really hate. But i think it might have originally intended to be but the fall out with kev and ike killed it. With the new streaming and the merger i think we might see a rearrangement of things. With feige getting more control of certain of the tv aspects. Although this is just me wanting so it probably wont happen.
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The shows and the movies never crossing over doesn't bother. Heck, it still doesn't. If Daredevil was never in a movie or Spider-Man or someone never being on Daredevil happened, that is fine. I can look at it as they're paths just never crossed but they still exist in the same world. Rebooting these shows instantly devalues anything Marvel Entertainment ever did. Might as well cancel Runaways, Cloak & Dagger, AoS, etc. Because it one doesn't count, none do. Also, what will happen if a film comes out less than well received? Will we just retcon it too? What's the purpose of connecting everything then? For me, it devalues the entire connective concept of the MCU. It makes me care less going forward about seeing everything. Why should I care about Shang-Chi? Etc. I'll just start evaluating every movie on their own merit then, and not go out of my way to see new properties I don't care about.
 
Spider-Fan said:
The shows and the movies never crossing over doesn't bother. Heck, it still doesn't. If Daredevil was never in a movie or Spider-Man or someone never being on Daredevil happened, that is fine. I can look at it as they're paths just never crossed but they still exist in the same world. Rebooting these shows instantly devalues anything Marvel Entertainment ever did. Might as well cancel Runaways, Cloak & Dagger, AoS, etc. Because it one doesn't count, none do. Also, what will happen if a film comes out less than well received? Will we just retcon it too? What's the purpose of connecting everything then? For me, it devalues the entire connective concept of the MCU. It makes me care less going forward about seeing everything. Why should I care about Shang-Chi? Etc. I'll just start evaluating every movie on their own merit then, and not go out of my way to see new properties I don't care about.
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Agree. But there is no reason to rebooot anytime soon in the mcu. They have loads of ip's to go through. It could be a decade before we see dd again.
 
I was still rooting for Vincent D'onofrio's wish to be Wilson Fisk in a Spidey movie to come true. :(
 
Lilbaz said:
Agree. But there is no reason to rebooot anytime soon in the mcu. They have loads of ip's to go through. It could be a decade before we see dd again.
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I know, but I'd rather no new DD as opposed to reboot. Period.

At minimum, I want them to leave Daredevil's backstory vague enough to where the show's continuity can still work within the confines of whatever they do (even if DD is played by a different actor). In other words, don't contradict the show, but you don't have to outright reference it either (since Matt's accident, becoming blind, etc. would be similar events in any story and just saying those in exposition should not contradict any details in the show). But optimally, I want to see Charlie Cox continue the role. Tone it down, change the costume, do whatever you have to do. But keep Charlie Cox I say.
 
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flickchick85 said:
I was still rooting for Vincent D'onofrio's wish to be Wilson Fisk in a Spidey movie to come true. :(
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I am hoping it still happens and cooler heads prevail. They can always do the right thing still
 
Honestly I don't see Feige touches the Defenders team in the near future (more likely ever). He is already working on several movies (Eternals, Black Widows, sequels to current movies) and the Disney+ series (villains and secondary Avengers), I don't think he will bother with a property already cancelled by Netflix, no matter how well-received it is. Plus I get the impression that all Marvel series on Disney+ will be handled by Feige to cement its real connection with the MCU movies, so if Feige won't work on Defenders then Defenders characters likely won't be on Disney+ (not to mention the fact that if the series go to Disney+ then they will need to change their tone to be family-friendly).

As Netflix and Disney+ are competitors and Netflix already said that the existing Marvel series will be available for streaming for several years (so perhaps they won't sell the streaming right back to Disney), I think after the streaming right expires Marvel TV can continue producing these series and stream them on Hulu. Not everything Marvel from Disney will be on movies or Disney+ (i.e. not everything Marvel from Disney will be in the same universe "It's all connected" with the movies). ABC, Freeform, and likely Hulu will all report to Disney, and it's fine if their series (AoS, Cloak and Dagger, Runaways) exist in their own universe. We really don't need to pretend the Defenders characters to be in the movies' universe, it can continue on Hulu and be its own world just fine.

TL; DR: The best I think we can hope for is the series continuing on Hulu. Reboot to movies or moving to Disney+ aren't impossible, but I don't think that will ever happen, considering Disney+ is perhaps considered nearly as prestigious as the movies and the movie/ Disney+ staff likely won't touch something originated from TV shows and already cancelled.
 
Once again, the shows on Hulu, Freeform, etc. I have no issues considering they're in the same universe as the movies. Just a different corner of it that is largely smaller in scale. I do agree the shows on Disney+ will likely all be Marvel Studios based shows (until they migrate your AoS and such over). I think waiting for whatever deal to expire, then bringing them to Hulu is optimal for me. I'd rather wait a few years and get these shows back as they are then get reboots with new actors.
 
Honestly if I were Feige I'd find someone he trusts to head a Marvel Knights imprint on Hulu or FX, maybe have movies with that imprint as a different department to be released under Fox, that will have ties to the MCU
 
I saw this report. Don't buy it. Every report we have seen from other insiders conflicts this report. I would have to see more insiders report the same.
 
It's not an implausible theory but I think it will become obvious one way or the other if Daredevil finds a new home. The only reason Disney would have to not continue the show on Netflix is if they wanted to use the property on their streaming service. Short of a reboot (which has been speculated on, but that's about it), there doesn't seem to be any momentum to save the show either on Disney+ or Hulu.
 
It sounds like a question of semantics. Marvel may have said no to season 4 AFTER Netflix imposed cost and episode reductions. Both sides refused to play nice and here we are.

I would have preferred that the Netflix versions of these characters were fully immersed within the cinematic MCU from the beginning, but now that they are D-U-N it's probably for the best that they exist in an Elseworlds/Expanded Universe. It would be a bad idea to saddle the next creative taking on the characters with 135 episodes of backstory, some of it quite shaky, and at least partially controlled by a competing media company.

One idea for a reboot would be to (after a proper period of mourning) go with Joe Carnahan's 70s era version of Old Horn Head and other street level Marvel heroes. That's an MCU era that could use some exploring.
 
Zarex said:
It sounds like a question of semantics. Marvel may have said no to season 4 AFTER Netflix imposed cost and episode reductions. Both sides refused to play nice and here we are.

I would have preferred that the Netflix versions of these characters were fully immersed within the cinematic MCU from the beginning, but now that they are D-U-N it's probably for the best that they exist in an Elseworlds/Expanded Universe. It would be a bad idea to saddle the next creative taking on the characters with 135 episodes of backstory, some of it quite shaky, and at least partially controlled by a competing media company.

One idea for a reboot would be to (after a proper period of mourning) go with Joe Carnahan's 70s era version of Old Horn Head and other street level Marvel heroes. That's an MCU era that could use some exploring.
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Honestly, I don't see how it would be that daunting to just have future appearances be vague sequels like they do with Hulk currently. Just have them be backstory that they don't reference often (if at all). You can hit notes like Matt mentioning his dad and such, and keep the details consistent enough to maintain continuity fairly easily. I don't think anyone is saying they need to reference 135 episodes of backstory every 5 seconds or anything. But having Matt already established as Daredevil, already having a history with Fisk, etc. I don't think is much to ask for. At all. Nor is that hard to accomplish. Just leave it vague. You don't have to reference specifics to keep it consistent. Heck, given the time line confusion with the shows anyway, whatever new equilibrium they establish for them can just be excused as passage of time. Daredevil can have a new suit, Danny can have come back to NY and formed HFH with Luke, etc. This is all fairly easy to do.
 
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I suppose Marvel could sign up all of the Netflix folks to new contracts, set clear guidelines as to how the stories should go moving forward (Wilson Fisk and Matt have an established history. And he knows DD's secret identity. But they have come to an temporary agreement based on the Kingpin's desire to keep Vanessa out of prison. Go!) and set the new stories in this established continuity. But I don't see what benefit is to be gained from doing that.

A rebooted version of DD (and Luke Cage, Danny Rand and Jessica Jones) is by necessity going to bring with it a lot of the stuff from the Netflix series simply because that's how it is in the comics. But I don't want ALL of it going forward, including at least some of the actors in the Netflix versions. A clean break is best for everyone. Folks have recently accepted a rebooted Batman and Spider-Man, so I don't see most folks rejecting DD 3.0 (4.0 if you include Matt Smith) out of hand. The other option is keeping them on the shelf, and I would prefer Marvel doesn't opt for that.
 
Zarex said:
I suppose Marvel could sign up all of the Netflix folks to new contracts, set clear guidelines as to how the stories should go moving forward (Wilson Fisk and Matt have an established history. And he knows DD's secret identity. But they have come to an temporary agreement based on the Kingpin's desire to keep Vanessa out of prison. Go!) and set the new stories in this established continuity. But I don't see what benefit is to be gained from doing that.

A rebooted version of DD (and Luke Cage, Danny Rand and Jessica Jones) is by necessity going to bring with it a lot of the stuff from the Netflix series simply because that's how it is in the comics. But I don't want ALL of it going forward, including at least some of the actors in the Netflix versions. A clean break is best for everyone. Folks have recently accepted a rebooted Batman and Spider-Man, so I don't see most folks rejecting DD 3.0 (4.0 if you include Matt Smith) out of hand. The other option is keeping them on the shelf, and I would prefer Marvel doesn't opt for that.
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But ultimately, what is gained by rebooting them outright? The core story is the same. Do we always want to see the same 2 or 3 stories covered for Daredevil? Do we need to see Danny come back to NY from Kun Lun or Luke break out of prison again? These stories have been done. When the MCU introduced us to T'Challa, he was already established with his own backstory. Granted, there was not a Black Panther show done before CW, but you can approach the Defenders the same exact way, only with the shows acting as backstory. I would rather see them approached like BP in that way. We never see T'Challa earn or train for the mantle of Black Panther. He just is Black Panther and we moved forward. Matt is already DD. Luke and Danny started HFH. Jessica is a PI. Etc. Just start them there and move forward. It's not exactly rocket science and the general audience wouldn't be anymore confused than they were for T'Challa, and fans can use the show for backstory to make it better for them. It's win/win. Even in this model, the actor playing the Defenders wouldn't ultimately matter (though I would prefer to keep Cox and the DD cast myself).
 
I don't think we're that far apart. I suppose you COULD keep a loose continuity. Something akin to how The Incredible Hulk sorta/kinda picks up the story from The Hulk. But if a creative comes up with a fantastic story involving Ben Urich or an initial meeting between Matt and Wilson should Feige (or whoever gets these characters next) reject it out of hand due to a continuity error?

I say keep what you like, dump the rest and move forward in a new continuity. The fact that there are 135 episodes of these characters available for viewing should streamline the re-boot. We got over double what we originally were expecting to get from the Netflix Defenders, so the series goes down in the "win" column even after new versions of these classic Marvel characters are introduced.
 
Zarex said:
I don't think we're that far apart. I suppose you COULD keep a loose continuity. Something akin to how The Incredible Hulk sorta/kinda picks up the story from The Hulk. But if a creative comes up with a fantastic story involving Ben Urich or an initial meeting between Matt and Wilson should Feige (or whoever gets these characters next) reject it out of hand due to a continuity error?

I say keep what you like, dump the rest and move forward in a new continuity. The fact that there are 135 episodes of these characters available for viewing should streamline the re-boot. We got over double what we originally were expecting to get from the Netflix Defenders, so the series goes down in the "win" column even after new versions of these classic Marvel characters are introduced.
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I am very much of the opinion that the initial meeting you're referencing will just end up being lower quality than the show. For people who never saw the show, it might be great. But given how amazing the show chronicled those events, I don't see a world where I am not wishing I was watching the show instead for those moments. I love Feige and what he has done, but I have no faith Fisk and Matt meeting and coming to odds in a movie will top Season 1. So I'd rather they take a new approach and have them as established nemesis instead and keep that past history vague enough for fans of the show.
 
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