Daredevil Daredevil General Discussion Thread - Part 8

[Kuwolski]

 

[Drizzle]

No surprise there, thanks to the absence of fan favorites like Game of Thrones and Stranger Things. I can get behind DDs3 being the best show of 2018.

 

[Lolo]

Hi,
Sorry for my english, i’m french.
In the third season, Mr Fisk lives in a hôtel room.
He decorates it with some paintings.
A vertical one, with à long blue stripes is interesting.
Does someone know who’s the author or where to find the information?
Many thanks

 

[BarryAllen]

Not that I think recasting is required, but even if you want to go that route, then recast. Again, there is no need to reboot. Did we need another Banner origin movie when they got Ruffallo? No. Also, upon recasting both Cheadle and Ruffallo played their roles VERY differently from their previous counterparts. So yes you can. Also to use a non CBM example, watch Rocky. Then go watch Rocky IV. Do you see how differently Rocky is portrayed? That was written by the same guy. Characters being written differently is common in cinema/TV.

Fiege won't do that. They rebooted Spiderman and they are going to reboot FF4 and X-men. The Netflix shows suffered from piss poor writing and terrible characterization that would serve as bloat and baggage if they ended up keeping the majority of the same lore.

As for them not being comic accurate, honestly that is a matter of preference. But even the MCU movies have made drastic changes to comic characters. Remember Thanos? The guy who is obsessed with Mistress Death? Oh wait, she isn't a thing in these movies. Well that's not comic accurate. Where is the masked glued to Zemo's face (or a mask at all)? Didn't Hank Pym build Ultron? When did Hela become Thor's sister? Etc. I can do this all day. There is no real indicator that "more accurate versions" would have been any more popular.

There's a difference between taking deviations of a character but keeping the core essence of the character still there and just a totally different, in-name-only version of a character that sucks. Netflix Cage is nothing like comics Cage, from backstory to personality, and the show suffered because of those reasons since nothing flowed properly. And "a more accurate" Iron Fist would be way more popular since Danny wouldn't portrayed in an unlikeable, uncharismatic and incompetent fashion. I mean, at the very least the movies are able to make the main character look good. That's a major step up from the low bar the Netflix show gave and def would've been popular.

I mean, a bulletproof black man from the streets and a ninja with glowing fists with a great lore should not be hard to make popular nor would be hard to concieve of as popular. I mean, do you really think the general public wouldn't find Iron Fist's whole schtick cool? Especially when characters like Ant-Man and now Eternals and Shang-Chi are going to be household names.

 

[KillerMcQueen]

Yes, Charlie Cox Signed the #SaveDaredevil Petition



Still don't think S4 will ever happen, but this shows how awesome Charlie is!

It probably won't change a thing, but I couldn't not sign the petition, if it was a Netflix decision, it could cost them my subscription, if it's a Marvel one, then I sure as hell am not gonna watch whatever BS reboot they put out. Not about to settle for any less than bringing back Cox and D'onofrio at the least.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Fiege won't do that. They rebooted Spiderman and they are going to reboot FF4 and X-men. The Netflix shows suffered from piss poor writing and terrible characterization that would serve as bloat and baggage if they ended up keeping the majority of the same lore.

Matter of opinion. I don't agree.

There's a difference between taking deviations of a character but keeping the core essence of the character still there and just a totally different, in-name-only version of a character that sucks. Netflix Cage is nothing like comics Cage, from backstory to personality, and the show suffered because of those reasons since nothing flowed properly. And "a more accurate" Iron Fist would be way more popular since Danny wouldn't portrayed in an unlikeable, uncharismatic and incompetent fashion. I mean, at the very least the movies are able to make the main character look good. That's a major step up from the low bar the Netflix show gave and def would've been popular.

I mean, a bulletproof black man from the streets and a ninja with glowing fists with a great lore should not be hard to make popular nor would be hard to concieve of as popular. I mean, do you really think the general public wouldn't find Iron Fist's whole schtick cool? Especially when characters like Ant-Man and now Eternals and Shang-Chi are going to be household names.

You act like the MCU movies have not done this. RDJ's Stark is a vast departure of the classic Stark persona I grew up with in comics. Same for Thor in Thor: Ragnarok. When was Ultron ever snarky like in AoU? I can do this all day. The Netflix shows did nothing the movies didn't do. Guys like Danny or Luke can just be written differently and accomplish the same task.

 

[BarryAllen]

Matter of opinion. I don't agree.

What other way is there to describe the Iron Fist show we got? Or even the Defenders crossover? Pacing issues aside, there was a clear lack of planning and fundamental misunderstanding of the characters beyond Daredevil.

You act like the MCU movies have not done this. RDJ's Stark is a vast departure of the classic Stark persona I grew up with in comics. Same for Thor in Thor: Ragnarok. When was Ultron ever snarky like in AoU? I can do this all day. The Netflix shows did nothing the movies didn't do. Guys like Danny or Luke can just be written differently and accomplish the same task.

I never said that the movies haven't changed the source material. But for the main characters, the ESSENCE is still there. You can point to an MCU main character and see the appeal of the comics version come through. RDJ's Stark quips more, but him being a genius billionaire playboy philanthropist still comes across. Thor in Thor: Ragnarok was as boisterous as comics Thor when it came to battling. Ultron was one of the most controversial parts of Age of Ultron and I thought the film suffered for it.

But saying "The Netflix shows did nothing the movies didn't do" is just false. Danny was written in such a whiny, unlikeable and most importantly incompetent way. When has a MCU movie gone out of it's way to depict one of it's main character in such a terrible fashion? He wasn't a good martial artist, they made him the butt of jokes in the Defenders, and he lost his powers to Colleen. Finn Jones still never got shredded even after having time to for Iron Fist Season 2. Why would anyone in their right mind want to keep this version of Iron Fist? Not to mention on bathrobe Kun-Lun and the whole lore being bungled. Why would Fiege want any of this?

Guys like Danny or Luke can just be written differently and accomplish the same task.

If they are written differently but with the old cast, it would just be jarring. Fiege does not want that (see Spiderman, X-men, and FF4). It's unnecessary baggage, the actors (Mike Colter and Finn Jones) are terrible and can easily be replaced with be way more engaging and accurate versions.

 

[TheVileOne]

I highly doubt Feige cares about the Netflix shows. If he ever wants to use those characters I'd bet dollars to donuts he'd just cast different actors. The Twitter *****ing would be glorious.

 

[MadVillainy]

I don't think that many people will care about recasting. Especially if the next actors we get are good.

I like Charlie Cox as Daredevil, Bernthal as Punisher (one of the few times one of my fancast choices came true) and Ritter as Jones for the most part.

But they're replaceable. I think there are for sure other actors out there that can do as good of a job or better than the current Defenders cast. D'Onofrio is the only one I have a hard time picturing someone else except maybe Ray Winstone.

I was reading in another thread of people saying they won't watch if they bring back the shows and recast...I mean sure. To me that's ridiculously immature, but different strokes for different folks.

 

[TheVileOne]

Maybe for Danny Rand yes. But for Matt Murdock, I'd need to be convinced. Same with D'Onofrio as Wilson Fisk.

 

[Whatupman]

I don't think that many people will care about recasting. Especially if the next actors we get are good.

I like Charlie Cox as Daredevil, Bernthal as Punisher (one of the few times one of my fancast choices came true) and Ritter as Jones for the most part.

But they're replaceable. I think there are for sure other actors out there that can do as good of a job or better than the current Defenders cast. D'Onofrio is the only one I have a hard time picturing someone else except maybe Ray Winstone.

I was reading in another thread of people saying they won't watch if they bring back the shows and recast...I mean sure. To me that's ridiculously immature, but different strokes for different folks.

I disagree. I find Charlie Cox to be the best superhero casting that Marvel has done, so I doubt that they're gonna be able to top that. Daredevil is my favourite comic book character, and Cox and the writers just nailed it. It was like seeing the character I fell in love with on the page finally brought to life.

 

[Iceman]

Well deserved.

 

[MadVillainy]

You guys aren't getting my point. I said many won't care. You two saying "I'll care" doesn't mean much. They don't care about us nerds on the web. They're going for wide GA appeal. Going for just the nerd fanbase doesn't keep profits soaring with TV and movies. So even if nerds act like they won't watch or care that doesn't matter much in the mainstream.
And I haven't seen any evidence that a majority of real people are so attached to these iterations of characters that it'll matter. Sorry. It's just not there. This isn't like RDJ as Stark or Jackman as Wolverine or something of that nature.

Everyone is replaceable.

 

[Whatupman]

You guys aren't getting my point. I said many won't care. You two saying "I'll care" doesn't mean much. They don't care about us nerds on the web. They're going for wide GA appeal. Going for just the nerd fanbase doesn't keep profits soaring with TV and movies.
And I haven't seen any evidence that a majority of real people are so attached to these iterations of characters that it'll matter. Sorry. It's just not there. This isn't like RDJ as Stark or Jackman as Wolverine or something of that nature.

Everyone is replaceable.

Well, actually you said a couple of things, so I guess there were more than just one point to be made. And saying "Many won't care" doesn't say much. It's quite relative. How many people are many? Or how many people do you consider many?

Of course, then you also talked about how you PERSONALLY find the actors replaceable, and I responded how I, also personally, don't find Cox to be replaceable.

 

[MadVillainy]

Well, actually you said a couple of things, so I guess there were more than just one point to be made. And saying "Many won't care" doesn't say much. It's quite relative. How many people are many? Or how many people do you consider many?

Of course, then you also talked about how you PERSONALLY find the actors replaceable, and I responded how I, also personally, don't find Cox to be replaceable.

The first and main point I made was that "I don't think that many people will care about recasting." and that they're replaceable.
I don't really care about personal feelings because that's just different strokes for different folks stuff.

By many people, I mean enough people that it matters. There are not going to be enough people who care that Charlie Cox, Jon Bernthal, Krysten Ritter, Vincent D'onoforio, Mike Colter, Finn Jones that it's going to matter. People will complain, like they always do but it doesn't mean a thing. I don't see any evidence that these portrayals of the characters are so significant that a significant amount of people will revolt or refuse to watch the new show when they're recast.

For example, again RDJ has been so significant to Stark that you can see bits of his portryal be used in cartoons, video games, etc.

I also don't subscribe to the idea that just because one person did something good or great that no one else can do it. That's silly to me.
We've gone through 3 iconic portrayals of Bond, we've gotten 2 great portrayals of Hannibal Lecter, 2 great iterations of Norman Bates, 2 great portrayals of Peter Parker, 2 great portrayals of the Joker in a row. We'll be fine. If we can survive recasting those truly iconic characters, I'm not concerned about the Marvel Netflix cast. Even if we have misteps ala a George Lazenby, Gaspard Ulliel, Jared Leto, it'll be alright in the end

 

[Whatupman]

The first and main point I made was that "I don't think that many people will care about recasting." and that they're replaceable.
I don't really care about personal feelings because that's just different strokes for different folks stuff.

By many people, I mean enough people that it matters. There are not going to be enough people who care that Charlie Cox, Jon Bernthal, Krysten Ritter, Vincent D'onoforio, Mike Colter, Finn Jones that it's going to matter. People will complain, like they always do but it doesn't mean a thing. I don't see any evidence that these portrayals of the characters are so significant that a significant amount of people will revolt or refuse to watch the new show when they're recast.

For example, again RDJ has been so significant to Stark that you can see bits of his portryal be used in cartoons, video games, etc.

I also don't subscribe to the idea that just because one person did something good or great that no one else can do it. That's silly to me.
We've gone through 3 iconic portrayals of Bond, we've gotten 2 great portrayals of Hannibal Lecter, 2 great iterations of Norman Bates, 2 great portrayals of the Joker in a row. We'll be fine. If we can survive recasting those truly iconic characters, I'm not concerned about the Marvel Netflix cast. Even if we have misteps ala a George Lazenby, Gaspard Ulliel, Jared Leto, it'll be alright in the end

The weird thing is that in my first response I didn't say anything about how people will revolt or refuse to watch a new show when the actors are recast. I was only talking about how I personally found Cox to be the perfect Daredevil. And then I got the response that I wasn't getting the point, even though I was only talking about how I personally felt about Cox being replaced.

 

[MadVillainy]

Alright sure man you got it. No doubt. My first and main point wasn't that many people won't care that they replace the actors

 

[Lencho01]

Netflix's Marvel Cancellations Signal Start of the New Streaming World Order

 

[Lencho01]

When Marvel Starts Selling Off Props, It's Time to Really Say Goodbye to Those Netflix Shows

 

[dmcreif]

When Marvel Starts Selling Off Props, It's Time to Really Say Goodbye to Those Netflix Shows

That doesn't mean anything. All it really confirms is there will be no more need for items that were part of the Netflix shows. If the shows are to be revived elsewhere, it would just be industry standard to create new costumes, props and sets anyways, and not reuse the former ones.

I mean, I'll post the petition link again for everyone to see: Sign the Petition

 

[dmcreif]

I disagree. I find Charlie Cox to be the best superhero casting that Marvel has done, so I doubt that they're gonna be able to top that. Daredevil is my favourite comic book character, and Cox and the writers just nailed it. It was like seeing the character I fell in love with on the page finally brought to life.

I'm with you. To the point that I'm like, a recasting would be a poor choice. I doubt anything else would come close to this show in terms of quality. If a revival on another network is unfeasible (I'm not giving up hope yet, because I know contracts can be renegotiated and bought out if Disney can be convinced to put money on the table), they should just shelve Daredevil rather than try to create some new take on the character. A rebooted show would lose all the magic and would be counterproductive at this moment in time. It also would be insulting to the very talented actors involved.

 

[Lencho01]

That doesn't mean anything. All it really confirms is there will be no more need for items that were part of the Netflix shows. If the shows are to be revived elsewhere, it would just be industry standard to create new costumes, props and sets anyways, and not reuse the former ones.

I mean, I'll post the petition link again for everyone to see: Sign the Petition

It means the shows are dead and these actors have already prepared to move on from them.

 

[dmcreif]

It means the shows are dead and these actors have already prepared to move on from them.

Not true. The items being auctioned off are from the Netflix production, and while it's true they hold a lot of value, it means very little for the future of the shows on a different platform. As sentimental as these items are, sets, props, and costumes can and WILL be remade if the shows do get a new home. It doesn't make sense for Marvel to hold onto anything long term other than to retain a piece of Marvel TV history. All of that being said, no one has assumed anything about the shows' future post-cancellation.

Read this article if you haven't: "Feeling The Churn: Why Netflix Cancels Shows After A Couple Of Seasons & Why They Can’t Move To New Homes". The important thing is, at the end of the day, money talks, and Disney, Marvel's parent company, has a lot of it. The petition is about convincing them to go back to Netflix and try to buy out the contracts so they can resume the shows on Hulu. There are so many questions we don't have the answers to.

I strongly believe that if Marvel decided against reviving the shows, they would've told us by now, rather than leaving it open for interpretation. This is an unusual cancellation that don't have an exact precedent. It's not a traditional cancellation like Lucifer or Brooklyn 99, where the production studio is allowed to shop the cancelled property around to new networks. It is clear, in the case of these cancellations and One Day at a Time, that there are secretive and very sticky IP / rights / legal / contract related issues between Disney / Marvel + Netflix, ones that we simply aren't privy to and won't ever be. And with Jessica Jones season 3 still yet to be released, there's probably an obligation for the studios to finish out this partnership before moving forward with any next steps or making more specific and public remarks.

As for the thing about actors moving on, well, this sort of thing happens a lot. We know they’ve all been released from their contracts, so they'll have to find other work; but that doesn't necessarily preclude them from returning to another show. Many of them sound like they would jump at the chance to get back to work, so if the powers that be will allow that to happen, it can. This whole #SaveDaredevil campaign has openly endorsed by Vincent D’Onofrio, Charlie Cox, Amy Rutberg, Geoffrey Cantor, Matt Gerald, Royce Johnson, Peter Halpin, Sunita Deshpande and others.

 

[Lencho01]

Not true. The items being auctioned off are from the Netflix production, and while it's true they hold a lot of value, it means very little for the future of the shows on a different platform. As sentimental as these items are, sets, props, and costumes can and WILL be remade if the shows do get a new home. It doesn't make sense for Marvel to hold onto anything long term other than to retain a piece of Marvel TV history. All of that being said, no one has assumed anything about the shows' future post-cancellation.

Read this article if you haven't: "Feeling The Churn: Why Netflix Cancels Shows After A Couple Of Seasons & Why They Can’t Move To New Homes". The important thing is, at the end of the day, money talks, and Disney, Marvel's parent company, has a lot of it. The petition is about convincing them to go back to Netflix and try to buy out the contracts so they can resume the shows on Hulu. There are so many questions we don't have the answers to.

I strongly believe that if Marvel decided against reviving the shows, they would've told us by now, rather than leaving it open for interpretation. This is an unusual cancellation that don't have an exact precedent. It's not a traditional cancellation like Lucifer or Brooklyn 99, where the production studio is allowed to shop the cancelled property around to new networks. It is clear, in the case of these cancellations and One Day at a Time, that there are secretive and very sticky IP / rights / legal / contract related issues between Disney / Marvel + Netflix, ones that we simply aren't privy to and won't ever be. And with Jessica Jones season 3 still yet to be released, there's probably an obligation for the studios to finish out this partnership before moving forward with any next steps or making more specific and public remarks.

As for the thing about actors moving on, well, this sort of thing happens a lot. We know they’ve all been released from their contracts, so they'll have to find other work; but that doesn't necessarily preclude them from returning to another show. Many of them sound like they would jump at the chance to get back to work, so if the powers that be will allow that to happen, it can. This whole #SaveDaredevil campaign has openly endorsed by Vincent D’Onofrio, Charlie Cox, Amy Rutberg, Geoffrey Cantor, Matt Gerald, Royce Johnson, Peter Halpin, Sunita Deshpande and others.

Actors aren't going to sit around waiting on the whims of corporations and what's above their pay grade. They need to make money too. It's why it's never surprising to hear of the various projects these actors are now taking on.

Shows or films featuring the characters may come back someday, sure. That's the nature of the business and that's the nature of having IP/characters such as these. They tend to come back at one point or another. But, it's highly unlikely any continuation of the shows as they are will happen. Thus, they start selling stuff off since they're unlikely to be used again.

Petitions don't really work when it comes to TV shows, so that's a "whatever" for me.

 

[Slick]

I want this show to come back and the other series but I’m at peace with it now.