Daredevil General Discussion Thread - Part 8

Discussion in 'Daredevil' started by Thread Manager, Mar 29, 2016.

  1. psylockolussus Disco Mutant

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    I'm finally down to the final episode. Unlike season 1 and 2, I didn't watch this season 3 right away except for the 1st episode. And the other day, I started to watch the rest of season 3 for completion. Personally, it doesn't hold my attention and I'm always on the phone checking things.
     
  2. Jumonji Registered

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    Ok, I'm only on episode 4, season 3 - Loved the first one, tolerated the second, and just watching this one. I'm totally sick of Daredevil being a wimp second rate hasbeen "hero." I miss the Ben Affleck version (pre stupid king pin fight) where he was a REAL SUPER HERO. Come on - give us a daredevil we can be proud of!
     
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  3. Whatupman Registered

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    Lay off the booze, Ben.
     
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  4. dmcreif Registered

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    Someone did the numbers, and in season 3, Matt and Foggy were only together onscreen for all of 18 minutes; Matt and Karen were only together onscreen for all of 36 minutes (much of that being from the church attack and the aftermath); and all three only had nine minutes where they were all on-camera together.

    I think those numbers should've been way way way higher.
     
  5. Lilbaz Registered

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    Why? You could have an hour of them playing pool in the bar but it wouldn't make the story any better.
     
  6. dmcreif Registered

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    Well there were a lot of missed opportunities in season 3 that could've been hit with more teamwork between Matt, Karen and Foggy:

    One is the prison fight. I know the series is constrained by time, but they should've explored the fallout from that scene in more depth, its impact on Matt, and maybe let others in on what happened. They only really brought it up once with Nadeem questioning Foggy. But legally, it could have sooo many implications. I think Matt's actions here should've had some consequences for Foggy by causing Foggy to end up being put under investigation on Fisk's direction. I'd have lived for a scene where Foggy chewed Matt out for stealing his ID and using it at the prison. (In fact, come to think of it, Matt never told them about the visit he paid to Fisk in prison in season 2 after Frank escaped either. And that visit was the whole reason Fisk orchestrated this whole trap for Matt in the first place)

    But as it stands, the prison fight and several other moments in season 3 basically exist in a vacuum. Season 2's writing had the same issue, where key details would often be left out of conversations in order to simplify conflicts and streamline the plot. (Like when Karen found Elektra and Stick at Matt’s apartment, for instance: in the next episode, she goes to Foggy having only noticed Elektra in Matt's bed, because the writers felt that it was easier to write Karen being angry with Matt for seemingly cheating on her, rather than contend with Karen, a talented investigator, interrogating Stick at the apartment and discovering Matt’s secret five episodes earlier).


    Season 3 arguably actually did a much better job with building tension than Seasons 1 and 2, but it came at the expense of some subtle character beats. More teamwork would've also allowed us more insight into how Foggy, Karen, and Matt were actually coping with being separated from each other so much. It would've solved the problem of where it seemed like there were too many moments where everyone just seemed to go lone wolf and got nothing done. Giving more interaction between the characters would've also helped in the later episodes where things felt a little rushed (as it goes, it seems like only three days pass during the period from episode 9 to episode 13).

    Admittedly, I'd say a lot of these missed opportunities were a consequence of the structure of season 2 and The Defenders. This results in a lot of threads in season 3 that would've been better if they were resolved earlier or differently.

    For instance, Karen's confession to Matt about killing Wesley. It would've made as much sense, if not more, to have her do that confession in season 2 in the middle of Frank's trial. That would've solidified the development of her season 3 arc. The confession between Karen and Matt in the crypt also rehashes a lot of the beats from the exchange Matt and Frank have on the Blacksmith's boat in season 2, without the nuance that would have provided greater dimension for the exchange. Karen was changed by killing Wesley, and that's supposed to make her stand as a validation of Matt’s faith, since she has committed to being better in spite of committing bad deeds in the past.

    That the writing in her confession to Matt was framed around why Karen didn’t tell Matt or Foggy rather than the circumstances under which Karen killed Wesley, also seems to be the writers trying to avoid discussing the fact that it was an act of self-defense. Making the order in which Karen confesses to people about Wesley be Matt, then Fisk, then Foggy, or just writing the scene with Foggy differently, would have allowed for the conversation to tackle the more important questions of Wesley’s death.

    Karen's confession to Matt about Wesley also highlights another flaw which is that the show rarely gives Matt enough space to process revelations. Charlie Cox actually complained in some post-Defenders interviews about Matt never getting room to mourn Stick's death. The same goes for Father Lantom's death here in season 3, which is kinda overshadowed by the Wesley confession and by the first half of the episode being Matt and Karen hiding from the feds, which too falls under this. Putting the Wesley confession here--and so late in the season to boot--kinda defused a lot of the tension from that revelation. And Karen is just telling Matt "trust me, killing people is bad for your soul" without really communicating anything meaningful for him to understand. Telling him onscreen what she did to Wesley and why, would help him to know better. Same for her telling him about her brother.

    It would've made more sense for Karen and Matt to flee to Matt’s apartment so they could then talk things out, so that Matt could properly mourn Father Lantom, and he and Karen could talk out the Sister Maggie reveal and everything else. (It doesn’t make sense that the Feds don’t ever check the basement again after the initial search)
     
  7. Spider-Fan SHHFFL 2014/2019 Champion

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    I stopped reading. Season 3 was amazing and I just don't care for whatever alternate suggestion ya got there
     
  8. Mike Murdock Registered

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    I loved Season 3. I thought it was a near perfect season. I thought it might be a perfect season if Nelson, Murdock, and Page were a team. But it's also a different season. I was hopeful that a new season could go with that, but I'd also be glad if it ended the way it did.
     
  9. hellblazer103 Nasty Piece of Work

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    Gee, it's almost as if the whole point of the season is that Matt is alone (save for the church) and his regular life outside of Daredevil is seemingly destroyed so he chooses to believe that Matt Murdock is dead and Daredevil is all that's left and it takes the end of that season for him to realize that's not the case and he needs his friends after all or something . Woah, who woulda thunk :o
     
  10. samsnee Ok

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    After hearing how we are getting a Moon Knight and She-Hulk series on Disney+, I wonder if Feige wishes Marvel TV never did a deal with Netflix. While there were some really amazing things on the shows, it’s frustrating to know we most likely will never see these characters on the big screen or integrated like the Disney+ shows will be.

    I bet if Iron Fist wasn’t a show, we would have gotten that as a movie instead of Shang Chi.
     
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  11. Lencho01 Shazoogle! Shazoogle!

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    This is trending today...

     
  12. BobJM Uncle Charlie

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    lol at that pic.

    Love that I got an alert for the Daredevil thread <3
     
  13. TheVileOne Registered

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    It is frustrating, but it was a different time when those deals were made. We weren't aware of the division between Marvel Studios and Marvel TV.
     
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  14. samsnee Ok

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    Big rumor
    he’s in Spider-man 3
     
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  15. craigaat World's Greatest Spy

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  16. ernesth100 The Writing Avenger

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    Hopefully so. If Charlie appears there then its a no-brainer for him to eventually have a bigger role in the MCU down the line.

    I also heard he might be in She Hulk. Both huge rumors. But very likely considering the nature of his lawyer half.
     
  17. Yowza Registered

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    I think a soft-reboot miniseries on Hulu would provide a basis for subscribing to that platform as it seems like a lot of the shows Marvel TV was planning to put on it have been scrapped but afterall Disney does own most of Hulu now so...

    The show could focus on an older Daredevil going on some sort of overseas adventure Far From Home style.

    I remember how the Black Panther comics in 1998 re-introduced the character through the narrative lens of a reporter initially and I think a similar kind of narrative lens would work well to re-introduce the character through a montage of events with '70's vibe similar to the movie Fox was planning before it was scrapped. It would be a one and done homage to the hero himself without need for a 2nd season; just various one-shot Fall specials every other year or so from the career of Matt Murdock I think would be great.

    Special 1 would be a return to Hell's kitchen one December night as something seems amiss borrowing from the Elektra Lives comic as Matt reminisces on the past. I think each special should feel like a jarring different approach to the character that is still cohesive yet quite different at various points in his career.
     
    #1617 Yowza, Jan 17, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2021
  18. DyeLorean will return

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    For my money, Daredevil is the only Netflix show/character that was good enough to be in the same league as the other Marvel Studios properties. Punisher too, maybe. Although I don't know if he fits the tone of the entire MCU.
     
  19. NotNickFury Registered

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    After Helstrom just came and went without any fanfare, would there even be any desire to do Marvel shows on Hulu? Sure, Helstrom wasn't part of the Marvel TV stuff that Feige is working on now with Wandavision and onward, but are there even any future plans for more MCU TV stuff on Hulu? I say MCU specifically, since there's that M.O.D.O.K. show, but I don't believe that's going to be MCU-related.
     
  20. Yowza Registered

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    Yeah, Marvel Studio's unfortunately wanted to cancel everything from Marvel TV. The Hulu acquisition Disney should put added value on post-Covid.

    Deadpool being rated R seems an indication there might be some mature rated content Marvel may consider at some point. The specials idea I think works as at least it isn't like Marvel is committing to anything beyond for each given project and I think this Covid situation may have Marvel Studio's re-thinking things as far as theatrical release windows goes.

    The likelihood is slim though for sure.
     
  21. Arrow1987 Registered

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    I keep hoping for season 4.
     

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