BvS David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer! - Part 2

[DA_Champion]

None of Nolan's films are shot-for-shot(panel for panel) adaptions of any Batman comics. Snyder's 300 and Watchmen are in many cases.My point was against the idea that adapting from a source material shouldn't be a knock on him. I think a direct adaption of a particular comic can be taken more literally than a direct adaption of a novel, like The Godfather, where the original author didn't have 'storyboards' in the original work. Therefore, I can understand this knock more so than people who often adapt novels or something. I don't think I made my point very clear. I don't particularly BELIEVE this, but I can understand why many people have this sort of perception of him. I personally love Watchmen and enjoyed Man Of Steel for the most part.

I think the guy has talent, but I still definitely believe he lacks the emotional points in his films. Watchmen was pretty good, but everything else he's done seems to lack any real character moments. Man of Steel tried, but didn't really get much aside from a scene or two between Michael Shannon and Russel Crowe. As for his writing ability, the only thing he himself wrote as an original idea was Sucker Punch, which was a complete piece of ****. I'd say overall, he's got potential and I'm 100% fine with him directing this film. I'm not OK with Goyer though. Everyone saying "Goyer's serviceable"....is that our expectations? Serviceable? This is ****ING BATMAN AND SUPERMAN! GET ME AN OSCAR WINNER!!!!....which Chris Terrio is.

It is not a legitimate criticism of Snyder that he chose to honor the source material in Watchmen and 300.

Snyder is actually original in doing such a rigorous adaptation, since nobody has done that before. There was no instruction manual for direct panel adaptations.

Sucker Punch was not a complete POS.

 

[weezerspider]

It is not a legitimate criticism of Snyder that he chose to honor the source material in Watchmen and 300.

Snyder is actually original in doing such a rigorous adaptation, since nobody has done that before. There was no instruction manual for direct panel adaptations.

Sucker Punch was not a complete POS.

What makes it a legitimate criticism is that many people consider those two of his best films, if not his only good ones, making it seem, without a comic book to start from, he doesn't have a strong directorial vision. Again, I don't necessarily believe that, but I also think its pretty ridiculous to completely ignore it and consider it illegitimate criticism. There's nothing wrong with adaptions, but when five of his six films are adaptions/remake and the only film that isn't was by far his least successful critically, an argument can be made.

In my opinion, Sucker Punch was. It's weak reviews from critics and audiences alike show that I am not alone in that opinion, though you are entitled to your opinion as well.

 

[Marvin]

His best reviewed film was Dawn of the Dead actually. I personally think there is alot more to watchmen than the zombie film but people have their standards of genre.

I also think making specific assertions based on a filmography of 6 isn't prudent. I can imagine if he had Spielberg quantity...

 

[TheBat812]

I don´t care if he is bad or simply not great. Lol. Don´t you think a movie like BvS needs the best screenwriter they can find? I mean, a really REALLY GOOD screenwriter? I think the movie deserves that. Try put Batman and Superman in the big screen together without a great writer behind and you´ll see what happens. Firework extravaganza with no substance.

Which is why he did what he does best and wrote a draft of the story with Chris Terrio (a much more talented writer) rewriting it to make sure it hits all the right notes and feels right. Goyer is hardly devoid of substance, it's his execution of it that sometimes is lacking. This is what Jonathan Nolan was able to enhance with TDK, and they seem to be using Terrio in the same role here.

 

[DA_Champion]

What makes it a legitimate criticism is that many people consider those two of his best films, if not his only good ones, making it seem, without a comic book to start from, he doesn't have a strong directorial vision. Again, I don't necessarily believe that, but I also think its pretty ridiculous to completely ignore it and consider it illegitimate criticism. There's nothing wrong with adaptions, but when five of his six films are adaptions/remake and the only film that isn't was by far his least successful critically, an argument can be made.

In my opinion, Sucker Punch was. It's weak reviews from critics and audiences alike show that I am not alone in that opinion, though you are entitled to your opinion as well.

Sucker Punch is severely underrated by the critics. I won't argue it's a masterpiece, but the fact garbage like Ender's Game, Thor 2, Iron Man 3, Star Trek into Darkness and Battle: LA got higher scores is ridiculous. There are a lot of strong points to that movie, and, it's original.

 

[Jumpman]

Sucker Punch is severely underrated by the critics. I won't argue it's a masterpiece, but the fact garbage like Ender's Game, Thor 2, Iron Man 3, Star Trek into Darkness and Battle: LA got higher scores is ridiculous. There are a lot of strong points to that movie, and, it's original.

I agree with you on Sucker Punch, especially the extended cut. I think it's a very flawed masterpiece. It is the work of an artist with vision and something to say. He may have not completely figured it out but it's a hell of a film, in my opinion.

 

[Micromind]

Sucker Punch is severely underrated by the critics. I won't argue it's a masterpiece, but the fact garbage like Ender's Game, Thor 2, Iron Man 3, Star Trek into Darkness and Battle: LA got higher scores is ridiculous. There are a lot of strong points to that movie, and, it's original.

Agreed, how those movies got high scores from critics is beyond my understanding.

 

[FeedOnATreeFrog]

I enjoyed Sucker Punch quite a bit...

But what do I know? I enjoy Spider Man 3 more than The Avengers...

 

[Micromind]

Anyway, back to Milo & Sage.. t:

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Anyway, back to Milo & Sage.. t:

Which one is the dog, and which one is the cat?

 

[D.P.]

I think if Sucker Punch had somebody elses name attached to it, it would have been lauded as genius.

Sucker Punch by Darren Aronofsky for example (with the exact same story) would have been salivated over by critics.

Snyder has a stigma and people give him a hard time.

 

[Micromind]

I think it Sucker Punch had somebody elses name attached to it, it would have been lauded as genius.

Sucker Punch by Darren Aronofsky for example (with the exact same story) would have been salivated over by critics.

Snyder has a stigma and people give him a hard time.

Yep.

Same with "Sucker Punch by David Cronenberg"

 

[DA_Champion]

Yep.

Same with "Sucker Punch by David Cronenberg"

The fact there's an irrational hate against Snyder probably makes me like him more. I don't like it when mobs bully people.

 

[super85]

I would have been seriously dissapointed if Cronenberg or Aranofsky would have made "Sucker Punch". That said, I think Snyder is a hit and miss. Some of his stuff I like, some of it I don't.

 

[D.P.]

It was just as surrealist as Black Swan but with more special effects. I won't sit up and act like it was better than Swan, but it wasn't horrible.

Far as Cronenberg, I felt Cosmopolis was pretty bad. He actually has far MORE misses than Snyder. Snyder's slightest missteps are magnified though.

 

[Lord]

It's because some of his biggest mistakes are horrible, i wouldn't consider his work hit or miss, it's pretty average with some good films, some alright film and some terrible films. Hell, he actually does better when he just makes mindless fun.

The mixed result of The Man of Steel pretty much reflects his works, with one half of critics liking it and another disliking it.

 

[DA_Champion]

I'll note that the no-name actresses selected by Snyder for Sucker Punch are doing decently.

Jena Malone almost outshone Jennifer Lawrence in Catching Fire. Everybody loved her portrayal.
Abbie Cornish has three 2014 movies, was good in Robocop.
Emily Browning was in Pompeii... oops.

He is very good at casting, which is all that is containing my frustration over Gadot, a voice in the back of my head going "maybe the expert with an excellent track record knows better".

ETA: Emily Browning would be a good choice for Kara Zor El.

 

[DA_Champion]

It's because some of his biggest mistakes are horrible, i wouldn't consider his work hit or miss, it's pretty average with some great films, some alright film and some terrible films.

The mixed result of The Man of Steel pretty much reflects his works, with one half of critics liking it and another disliking it.

We're suggesting that Snyder is exceptionally penalized by critics.

 

[Lord]

And i disagree with it, i think he deserves the criticism he gets.

 

[D.P.]

It's because some of his biggest mistakes are horrible

Horrible? Eh, an opinion shared by some, not all. I take issue with people making black/white statements about the quality of his work as if he is delivering Daredevil/F4-esque comic book films. They are solid movies enjoyed by many worldwide. No nitpicks in the world can change that.

We're suggesting that Snyder is exceptionally penalized by critics.

I believe he is. Glad someone else can see it.

 

[super85]

It was just as surrealist as Black Swan but with more special effects. I won't sit up and act like it was better than Swan, but it wasn't horrible.

Far as Cronenberg, I felt Cosmopolis was pretty bad. He actually has far MORE misses than Snyder. Snyder's slightest missteps are magnified though.

Black Swan wasn't really that great. Good acting, and competent made, but othervise nothing that I found overly fantastic. Aranofsky used to be more interesting earlier in his carrer i think. He is a bit different, these days artsy red wine drinking critics seem to like him becouse it is an "real artist" making fairly commercial stuff.

Cosmopolis wasn't good, but with a guy like Cronenberg...he has made like 30-40 films, of course there will be bad ones over there. Snyder has made like what, 5-6 films?

 

[STARMAN]

This thread is supposed to bash Goyer not Snyder.

 

[D.P.]

Black Swan wasn't really that great. Good acting, and competent made, but othervise nothing that I found overly fantastic. Aranofsky used to be more interesting earlier in his carrer i think. He is a bit different, these days artsy red wine drinking critics seem to like him becouse it is an "real artist" making fairly commercial stuff.

Cosmopolis wasn't good, but with a guy like Cronenberg...he has made like 30-40 films, of course there will be bad ones over there. Snyder has made like what, 5-6 films?

I knew that point woud arise. But out of that 5-6, I'd say he is on track to be a legendary director. 300, MOS, Watchmen, and DOTD alone are enough for him to be considered pretty talented at what he does. If he can continue to fend off legions of haters and silence them with each cinematic effort, even better.


I don't know the exact number on Cronenberg's filmography, but being 15 for 30 (ball park for arguments sake) isn't a good look regardless of who you are.

 

[Space Ghost]

Honestly, what´s so bad about Zack Snyder? I agree that he is not the best director around, but he has made good movies, including MOS.

I know a lot of people don´t like it, but i don´t understand what´s the big problem with the movie. It is a pretty decent origin story. Most of the fight scenes are amazing. Everything looks great. We have good character development. We see more from young Clark, The Kents, Jor-El and Krypton than we see in any other Superman movie. We have a pretty good Zod whose motivations go a little further than simply "I want to rule the earth, for the sake of ruling something".

I mean, what else can you want from a Superman movie? MOS was a movie about Superman. It was more about Superman than the 1978 film, wich felt like a love story between Superman and an ultra dumb Lois Lane.

People say MOS has no substance. Really? What movie has substance? TA? Thor? Iron Man? None of those movies made me feel anything for any of it´s characters. They´re hollow. At least MOS gave me a couple of deep scenes. At least i could feel Clark´s dilemma. At least it felt like there were lifes at stake. Just look at the last scene with Zod. Look at Superman´s look of desperation. That´s a scene that sells very well the idea that something horrible is about to happen. Many acclaimed super hero movies couldn´t even do that.

 

[Superman_200]

Honestly, what´s so bad about Zack Snyder? I agree that he is not the best director around, but he has made good movies, including MOS.

I know a lot of people don´t like it, but i don´t understand what´s the big problem with the movie. It is a pretty decent origin story. Most of the fight scenes are amazing. Everything looks great. We have good character development. We see more from young Clark, The Kents, Jor-El and Krypton than we see in any other Superman movie. We have a pretty good Zod whose motivations go a little further than simply "I want to rule the earth, for the sake of ruling something".

I mean, what else can you want from a Superman movie? MOS was a movie about Superman. It was more about Superman than the 1978 film, wich felt like a love story between Superman and an ultra dumb Lois Lane.

People say MOS has no substance. Really? What movie has substance? TA? Thor? Iron Man? None of those movies made me feel anything for any of it´s characters. They´re hollow. At least MOS gave me a couple of deep scenes. At least i could feel Clark´s dilemma. At least it felt like there were lifes at stake. Just look at the last scene with Zod. Look at Superman´s look of desperation. That´s a scene that sells very well the idea that something horrible is about to happen. Many acclaimed super hero couldn´t even do that.

What I don't understand is why at first the movie was well liked on here, and now it seems like the opinion is slowly declining about the movie as we are approaching the production of the sequel. Is it because the novelty has worn off? I don't understand why at first the majority seemed to really like and praise the film and the only complaint was the ending and now we are seeing a change. People were praising Snyder and now people are doubting him again.