BvS David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer! - Part 2

[Space Ghost]

Funny thing: The idea for Bruce´s traveling experience came after Goyer showed Nolan some pics of his trips to tibet.

 

[roach]

Goyer's Bafta lecture is at Slashfilm...i'd post it but it has bad no-no words

 

[Space Ghost]

Yeah, just watched that. Pretty cool. Still not a big fan of him as writer, but i like some of his ideas.

 

[STARMAN]

I don't think Goyer is the best writer in the world but I think some of the criticism of him is over the top.

 

[Space Ghost]

Just saw Sucker Punch. Lol. Didn´t love it, but it isn´t as bad and dumb as i thought it would be. It´s just badly executed in some aspects, has poor characterization, it´s full unnecessary scenes and sometimes can look too much like a music video. It has some interesting underlying messages but i think it can get a little confusing for most people.

Zack Snyder certainly has an eye for visual awesomeness. With a good script in his hands he might become the ideal person to direct a Batman movie. Just don´t let him write anything.

 

[DA_Champion]

Just saw Sucker Punch. Lol. Didn´t love it, but it isn´t as bad and dumb as i thought it would be. It´s just badly executed in some aspects, has poor characterization, it´s full unnecessary scenes and sometimes can look too much like a music video. It has some interesting underlying messages but i think it can get a little confusing for most people.

Zack Snyder certainly has an eye for visual awesomeness. With a good script in his hands he might become the ideal person to direct a Batman movie. Just don´t let him write anything.

Apparently the directors cut is a lot better.

I agree with your assessment. When got ny hands on SP, based on the reviews, inwas expecting something as bad as green lantern or battle: la. That was not the case.

 

[MrsKent26]

I thought Sucker Punch was bad. I've liked all of Zack's movies except for that one. The action scenes were the only good thing about it.

 

[Space Ghost]

Apparently the directors cut is a lot better.

I agree with your assessment. When got ny hands on SP, based on the reviews, inwas expecting something as bad as green lantern or battle: la. That was not the case.

Yeah. I understand why most people didn´t like it. It´s very edgy but i was entertained by it.

I guess expectations play a big role on the impact a movie as on me. The reviews are really really bad, so i expected something horrendous.

Anyway, Snyder is talented. He would make awesome music videos. Lol.

 

[Space Ghost]

I thought Sucker Punch was bad. I've liked all of Zack's movies except for that one. The action scenes were the only good thing about it.

His Batman is gonna kick so much ass. BvS is going to be a visually powerful movie, that´s for sure.

 

[The Guard]

I keep seeing people referencing character development in THE WINTER SOLDIER...

...there was character development in THE WINTER SOLDIER?

For what its worth, I'm of the opinion that while the quality of the scripts was similar, MOS explores its actual concepts and character conflicts much more thoroughly than TWS did, and the third act weaknesses it has, TWS also had.

Anyone else bored with these endless comparisons and rankings of films?

 

[charl_huntress]

Anyone else bored with these endless comparisons and rankings of films?

Yes, it's really unnecessary and not even warranted in most cases.

 

[Space Ghost]

I keep seeing people referencing character development in THE WINTER SOLDIER...

...there was character development in THE WINTER SOLDIER?

For what its worth, I'm of the opinion that while the quality of the scripts was similar, MOS explores its actual concepts and character conflicts much more thoroughly than TWS did, and the third act weaknesses it has, TWS also had.

Anyone else bored with these endless comparisons and rankings of films?

I agree with you. But i´m starting to think that i´m simply dumb and that´s why i can´t see the awesomeness behind that film. I really thought it was good but not great. And i do think MOS has much better character development and is, overall, a much more powerful film, even with all it´s flaws.

And i´m not bored by these endless comparisons. I´m bored by The_Endless.

 

[The Guard]

I agree with you. But i´m starting to think that i´m simply dumb and that´s why i can´t see the awesomeness behind that film. I really thought it was good but not great. And i do think MOS has much better character development and is, overall, a much more powerful film, even with all it´s flaws.

And i´m not bored by these endless comparisons. I´m bored by The_Endless.

Same.

It's a darn entertaining, well made film that gets the basics of the character right.

Which is a success, and something to be happy about, but that's about it, really.

 

[DA_Champion]

Sorry The Guard, some of us dig comparisons.

I am bored by rankings though.

 

[The Guard]

I guess comparisons I don't mind so much...discussing how themes and story and such relates...it's the need to constantly rank things that's getting old.

 

[Space Ghost]

An interesting thing is that the movie appears to be doing great on RT, with a 89% score. This means most critics liked it. But how much did they like it? The average rating is 7.5/10, wich means they think it is good, but not amazing.

CB fans are really crazy about this movie, but regular people won´t be, IMO. I know everyone has different experiences, but in my circle of friends nobody really loved the movie besides one girl. 90% of them thought it was "ok".

One big problem with this movie is that it tries very hard to be emotional, but does it with characters that most people who aren´t fans don´t really give a damn about. I mean, Bucky? I had to explain to my GF who Bucky was, and we had just watched TFA one night before TWS. That kind of tells you how much impact that character made in the audience, wich was very little. Now am i supposed to get emotional because of Bucky? Am i supposed to care about a forgettable character from a forgettable movie? I don´t think so.

And i also don´t think Peggy and Steve had a great love story. Yeah, the end of TFA was cool: "I had a date". I liked that. But other than that, what did they really have? Steve was a needy guy who thought peggy was hot and wanted to go out with her and dance. She also wanted him because he became a hot super soldier. Nothing really happens between them. Am i supposed to cry because two hot people didn´t get to dance?

 

[Black Narcissus]

Just a heads up! Goyer also did an interview for DP/30 on youtube. I haven't seen it and don't know if he talks BvS.

 

[D.P.]

I keep seeing people referencing character development in THE WINTER SOLDIER...

...there was character development in THE WINTER SOLDIER?

For what its worth, I'm of the opinion that while the quality of the scripts was similar, MOS explores its actual concepts and character conflicts much more thoroughly than TWS did, and the third act weaknesses it has, TWS also had.

Anyone else bored with these endless comparisons and rankings of films?

Because the fact of the matter is people are terribly biased against MOS. I'll give it a couple more years and see if people calm down.

Just a heads up! Goyer also did an interview for DP/30 on youtube. I haven't seen it and don't know if he talks BvS.

I think it deals mostly with that Da Vinci show he has out right now. Which I'm not a fan of btw for those who think I defend all things Goyer.

 

[sebandres23]

An interesting thing is that the movie appears to be doing great on RT, with a 89% score. This means most critics liked it. But how much did they like it? The average rating is 7.5/8, wich means they think it is good, but not amazing.

CB fans are really crazy about this movie, but regular people won´t be, IMO. I know everyone has different experiences, but in my circle of friends nobody really loved the movie besides one girl. 90% of them thought it was "ok".

One big problem with this movie is that it tries very hard to be emotional, but does it with characters that most people who aren´t fans don´t really give a damn about. I mean, Bucky? I had to explain to my GF who Bucky was, and we had just watched TFA one night before TWS. That kind of tells you how much impact that character made in the audience, wich was very little. Now am i supposed to get emotional because of Bucky? Am i supposed to care about a forgettable character from a forgettable movie? I don´t think so.

Yeah I completely agree with this post. I myself am a semi-geek (I've read maybe 2 comic books in my life, but I do love watching CBM's and then reading character stories), and the movie was really solid (8), but nothing that will last for me.

I actually also went to watch it with my girlfriend and she had the same reaction. She didn't know who Bucky was and didn't care for the reveal or for the Winter Soldier for that matter. The general audience just doesn't feel emotionally invested in these characters, so they don't care as much. I'm not taking anything away from the movie, I still haven't met someone who didn't like it, but it isn't the classic that it's put out to be if you ask me.

I kinda compare it to my experience watching TDKR (went 4 times). I know it's silly, but the Talia Al Ghul twist had people gasping (not many, but it was audible). The Bucky twist, no one cared about.

 

[Ms. Marvel]

You do realise TA has an 8 average rating, IM has a 7.6, TDKR has an 8, BB has a 7.7 and TDK has an 8.5 right? Those are seen as among the best in the genre. Most CBMs with an average rating above 7 are seen as among the best in the genre. Also, the Bucky twist was not a twist as Marvel weren't trying to hide it. And not many people cared for the Talia twist either (this is coming from someone who loved TDKR).

 

[roach]

I often wondered how Goyer is able to write all of these scripts and in the interview it mentions he writes three to four scripts at a time. I felt like I was a pioneer for two at a time

 

[Krumm]

I often wondered how Goyer is able to write all of these scripts and in the interview it mentions he writes three to four scripts at a time. I felt like I was a pioneer for two at a time

It probably keeps him from getting bogged down in any particular one. If he gets stuck on one and can just refresh by working on another; at least that I've read from Ed Burns who does the same thing.

Seeing as you're a writer, I'm sure you know all that already.

 

[Space Ghost]

You do realise TA has an 8 average rating, IM has a 7.6, TDKR has an 8 and TDK has an 8.5 right? Those are seen as among the best in the genre. Most CBMs with an average rating above 7 are seen as among the best in the genre. Also, the Bucky twist was not a twist as Marvel weren't trying to hide it. And not many people cared for the Talia twist either (this is coming from someone who loved TDKR).

Yeah. Except the Talia/Bane story was way cooler than the story of a guy getting brainwashed. It was also better delivered. And it was also much more meaningful in the context of the film and the trilogy in general. And Bane was also a much more important and interesting character than TWS. IMO, of course. To me the Bane/Talia thing was actually a very cool and unexpected moment. The Bucky reveal was more like "hummm...ohh, that guy from the other movie was brainwashed. Ok."

I just don´t think the characters in the two Captain movies are as strong as the characters in TDK trilogy, wich makes it more difficult to care about them.

And i´m no fan of Talia either.

 

[InJustice]

I keep seeing people referencing character development in THE WINTER SOLDIER...

...there was character development in THE WINTER SOLDIER?

For what its worth, I'm of the opinion that while the quality of the scripts was similar, MOS explores its actual concepts and character conflicts much more thoroughly than TWS did, and the third act weaknesses it has, TWS also had.

Anyone else bored with these endless comparisons and rankings of films?

One of the obvious arcs was Captain America having to pretty much change his outlook on the world since he was first revived. Going from a trusting soldier, to being wary about even his own allies. The subtle thing I found is that it helps re-position Captain as leader in current times, going from someone who appeared to be out of place, to someone who has the confidence to lead an army.

 

[Ms. Marvel]

@Space Ghost Well that's your opinion which is fine.

My primary point was that the average scores should be compared to other CBMs not what you personally consider a "great score". TDK (which is seen as the best) was given an 8.5 and TA got an 8. I'm not saying Cap 2 is seen as a masterpiece by critics but the score it got is very good for a CBM. Sorry for straying from the topic, I just had to add that.

Back to the topic, Goyer's MOS script isn't as bad as some people make it out to be but I thought the dialogue was a bit off. I liked the plot though.