DC Relaunching Everything? - Part 1

[TheIncredibleSk]

Female comic characters don't sell books these days, because they've barely ever sold books at any point in time. This character that you're crapping on here for her suit is actually about the only consisting selling female character in the history of comics. The only other one that's come close is Spider-Girl with 100 issues, and even that was a tough struggle to keep up. So maybe every female character should be wearing 'bikinis' then, or 'dressing like strippers' (though I'm beginning to wonder if the people who say that have even seen bikinis or strippers for real).

Your right, female heroes are a tough sale but I still think the general audience won't buy a women running in a bikini. If you want some legs, maybe something like this

 

[Tron Bonne]

Nah, I already watched Xena.

 

[Kurosawa]

As soon as someone says Wonder Woman is a warrior they prove they don't understand the character. Wonder Woman is a superheroine, not a warrior.

 

[TheIncredibleSk]

Well I don't know what to say. I just hope they don't back to bikini.

 

[Tron Bonne]

Haha, I just now realized this wasn't the Wonder Woman thread. I bet pretty much everyone else besides like two people hate this thread with a passion right now

 

[TheIncredibleSk]

As soon as someone says Wonder Woman is a warrior they prove they don't understand the character. Wonder Woman is a superheroine, not a warrior.

Wonder Woman comes from a race Warriors. She's a warrior first.

 

[Tron Bonne]

She comes from race warriors? Like NASCAR?

 

[Mr. Earle]

Alright, it's not even a movie thing, it's the average person If the average person looks at a WW(or any female character) cover and see her in a bikini, they won't pick up the book. Why doesn't female comic characters sell books these days? Their over sexualized.

I thought they over sexualized them to sell books to horny male readers. In any case, Marvel grossly outsells DC and i dont see them covering their ladies. In any case, yes, i think some suits are bad and need to be redesigned (Huntress and WW included), but they shouldnt be enforcing a silly mandate indiscriminately. Sometimes skirts and panties are just fine. I mean Ivy is a meta, she doesnt need a suit when she's covered in leaves and choking you with her vines.

While tight leather is still very sexy, it's better than a bikini, I mean I can see a women rescuing people in a tight pants more than panties. Wonder Woman needs to be showcased a warrior, not a stripper.

Its a complex issue.

So first of all she is from a different world and thus she doesnt have to adhere to our standards. On the other hand, she's an imaginary character created for us, with some artist sitting in his office and deciding how to dress her, so our preconceptions do matter, so i guess she shouldnt look bad even if she is from another world. She's aimed at us is she not?

Therefore, i think she needs to look different, bright and whatever, but not bad. So on the one hand we have the classic suit that's iconic but has 1000 colours thrown on it, and 1000 different design patterns (red + gold eagle, blue + white stars, red + white lines = Its like a rainbow threw up on her), and on the other this new suit that is simpler and more modest but doesnt reflect her character.

I vaguely remember a story where some female villains were fighting some heroes until WW arrived. When she did, they all shut up and surrended with a "she's wonder woman" look on their faces. Its like some archangel, or saint, or Ghandi appeared in front of them and put them to shame with just a glare. Now do you see Diana having this stature in this pair of pants and bustier?

 

[Mr. Earle]

But then she wouldnt be as hip...Though I dont mind the arm band as much as the choker.

Its just that this silver WW logo has been copypasted all over her. I wouldnt mind the band so much if it looked different. Ideally i'd like JMS' golden straps and golden details back and some sort of skirt.

Like... make her and the amazons look cool, not like ancient greek relics and certainly not like Hannah Montana.

Female comic characters don't sell books these days, because they've barely ever sold books at any point in time. This character that you're crapping on here for her suit is actually about the only consisting selling female character in the history of comics. The only other one that's come close is Spider-Girl with 100 issues, and even that was a tough struggle to keep up. So maybe every female character should be wearing 'bikinis' then, or 'dressing like strippers' (though I'm beginning to wonder if the people who say that have even seen bikinis or strippers for real).

WW has been grossly outsold even by Batgirl. She hasnt sold well in ages. So yeah maybe back in the Trojan War she was fine, but there's clear indication that she hasnt kept up with times unlike say Superman, Batman or Spiderman, who although look practically the same, their stories, villains, and general setup were constantly retooled over the years to stay modern and relevant.

I think its more than just putting a good writer on the book. WW needs to reconnect with the modern audience, the way Johns took the flailing GL franchise and made it shine at the center of the DCU.

 

[Kurosawa]

Wonder Woman comes from a race Warriors. She's a warrior first.

No, she isn't. She is an ambassador of peace who only fights when she has to and the war the Amazons specialized in was defensive war. She is an ambassador of peace and an advocate of Amazon society first, a superheroine second and a defender, not a warrior, third. All the crap (and it IS crap) declaring Wonder Woman as a savage warrior has been written by people who never learned the characters' origins or studied her creators original intentions.

 

[Mr. Earle]

And judging by JMS' story that's bound to affect her post FP, the choice of a writer famous for his gritty street level stories, and the suit she's sporting (similar to JMS' and that's gotta mean something), she probably wont be like that at all. I feel like its going to be like in JMS' story so Themiscyra will be destroyed and Diana will have been raised in man's world in a small society of surviving Amazons. Apparently you need dead parents and a big loss in your past to be able to become a superhero.

At least that's what it looks like to me.

 

[TheIncredibleSk]

No, she isn't. She is an ambassador of peace who only fights when she has to and the war the Amazons specialized in was defensive war. She is an ambassador of peace and an advocate of Amazon society first, a superheroine second and a defender, not a warrior, third. All the crap (and it IS crap) declaring Wonder Woman as a savage warrior has been written by people who never learned the characters' origins or studied her creators original intentions.

Amazons are Superhuman warriors. I never called her a savage warrior but she is a warrior. Hell, Im pretty sure you used pre-crisis Wonder Woman origins. I don't know, but I do know that the best characterization of Wonder Woman was in Wonder Woman DVD and The George Perez reboot, and in those stories amazons were warriors and Diana came to man's world to find something or someone.

 

[Kurosawa]

Amazons are Superhuman warriors. I never called her a savage warrior but she is a warrior. Hell, Im pretty sure you used pre-crisis Wonder Woman origins. I don't know, but I do know that the best characterization of Wonder Woman was in Wonder Woman DVD and The George Perez reboot, and in those stories amazons were warriors and Diana came to man's world to find something or someone.

I did, because that is Wonder Woman as she was intended to be by her creator and how she was when she was the most relevant and successful.

The "ambassador of peace" bit came from Perez, actually. In the original she came to man's world to help fight the Nazis and to return Steve Trevor to America. And because she was in love with him.

 

[SuperFerret]

Diana is both an ambassador and a warrior. Just because someone is a warrior doesn't mean that they're going to just run around stabbing things at random.

Also, and this goes double for Marston than it has for anyone else because his version of Wonder Woman was god awful, **** what she was created as.

 

[Mr. Earle]

Well yeah. I mean we're probably splitting hairs here but arent Diana and her fellow amazons some sort of female Spartans? I am not saying they invade and kill or whatever, but they re soldiers serving Themiscyra. WW is a superhero as well.

 

[TheIncredibleSk]

I did, because that is Wonder Woman as she was intended to be by her creator and how she was when she was the most relevant and successful.

The "ambassador of peace" bit came from Perez, actually. In the original she came to man's world to help fight the Nazis and to return Steve Trevor to America. And because she was in love with him.

You do know characters are meant to evolve right. You cant and shouldn't be stuck in the silver age forever. That whole ambassador of peace is dumb. Women Warriors? True amazons? Now thats a cool idea. Not a idea from the 1940's. . Plus the original creator stories might have been successful but they were god awful. I hope you don't want that.

 

[SuperFerret]

The ambassador of peace thing is good, especially when done with the olive branch in one hand and the sword in the other. It's the constant "hey, here's this strong, independent woman, oh, and here she is, getting tied up, again" bull**** that made Golden Age Wonder Woman absolute ****.

 

[The Batman]

as far as im concerned, ideas were much better back then. Its the execution of today's stories that is superior.

WW should basically be what Marston intended, but modernized accordingly.

 

[TheIncredibleSk]

as far as im concerned, ideas were much better back then. Its the execution of today's stories that is superior.

WW should basically be what Marston intended, but modernized accordingly.

So she should be a superhero woman who gets tied in a S&m type way every comic.

 

[HighFivingMF]

So she should be a superhero woman who gets tied in a S&m type way every comic.

That's the complete opposite of what he said.

 

[X Knight]

Based on Cassie's and Diana's new costumes, do you think Kara's new costume will ditch the skirt and be less revealing ( as that seems to be the trend )?

also, any word yet on Cassandra Cain?

 

[TheCorpulent1]

as far as im concerned, ideas were much better back then. Its the execution of today's stories that is superior.

WW should basically be what Marston intended, but modernized accordingly.

Ideas are always better when you're starting with a blank canvas rather than 70 years of other people's ideas.

 

[Kurosawa]

You do know characters are meant to evolve right. You cant and shouldn't be stuck in the silver age forever. That whole ambassador of peace is dumb. Women Warriors? True amazons? Now thats a cool idea. Not a idea from the 1940's. . Plus the original creator stories might have been successful but they were god awful. I hope you don't want that.

They've been doing idea for 25 years now, and all it has done is fail. It's not going to suddenly start working now.

The ambassador of peace thing is good, especially when done with the olive branch in one hand and the sword in the other. It's the constant "hey, here's this strong, independent woman, oh, and here she is, getting tied up, again" bull**** that made Golden Age Wonder Woman absolute ****.

She did most of the tying up. It can be executed in a more up-to-date manner, but Wonder Woman worked best when it was wild and imaginative and kinky as well. The character has actually done nothing but decline and fail since WMM died. They first made her a very generic superhero character, then from 68-on they've tried new directions with her every 5 minutes. None of them have done anything but fail. The only Wonder Woman that ever worked was the original. All other versions have failed with brief periods of slight success. If WW is to matter, then she needs to be handled and marketed with the target audience people like Mysti, not typical comics fans who want the grimdark warrior thing. Because it's a proven loser.

 

[TheIncredibleSk]

They've been doing idea for 25 years now, and all it has done is fail. It's not going to suddenly start working now.



She did most of the tying up. It can be executed in a more up-to-date manner, but Wonder Woman worked best when it was wild and imaginative and kinky as well. The character has actually done nothing but decline and fail since WMM died. They first made her a very generic superhero character, then from 68-on they've tried new directions with her every 5 minutes. None of them have done anything but fail. The only Wonder Woman that ever worked was the original. All other versions have failed with brief periods of slight success. If WW is to matter, then she needs to be handled and marketed with the target audience people like Mysti, not typical comics fans who want the grimdark warrior thing. Because it's a proven loser.

I can' take this post seriously .

 

[SuperFerret]

She did most of the tying up. It can be executed in a more up-to-date manner, but Wonder Woman worked best when it was wild and imaginative and kinky as well. The character has actually done nothing but decline and fail since WMM died. They first made her a very generic superhero character, then from 68-on they've tried new directions with her every 5 minutes. None of them have done anything but fail. The only Wonder Woman that ever worked was the original. All other versions have failed with brief periods of slight success. If WW is to matter, then she needs to be handled and marketed with the target audience people like Mysti, not typical comics fans who want the grimdark warrior thing. Because it's a proven loser.

That "decline" and "failure" is all your opinion there, buddy. I'd much rather read the modern depiction of Wonder Woman than that near-smut level of sexism that Marston pumped out.

And when you say target "people like Mysti" I take it you mean "female", right?