DC Relaunching Everything? - Part 8

[Anubis]

Then he was either being gracious or his taste in comics is drastically different from his own skills. Like Kirkman's favorite artist being Leifeld.

 

[Scarecrow_King]

nobody's going to say at a press event "I don't like this other person working on the same character as me." That's a good way to get into trouble with DC.

He was being gracious. And just hyping the fact that the Court of Owls crosses over into all Batbooks.

 

[Mystirious]

Not only that but I think that some changes should stay.

What DC should do IMO is see what changes do work and which ones don't and get rid of the ones that don't.

I think they should just keep it as is

No more reboots or retcons, just work on making the pist flashpoint DCU as good as it can possibly be with good stories, characters and artwork

I don't think many people would read Batman stories if Batman weren't Bruce. Maybe if it were Dick. But past that? I doubt it.

I think I could accept someone else as Batman like Dick or Tim or maybe even Damian at some point

Meaning Batwoman will get thrown out, but everything in Detective will be the basis of Batman for the next 10 years.

Dont even joke about that 'Nubsy

If Batwoman was ever erased/cancelled/killed off i would just stop buying any DC comics

And Detective Comics by Tony Daniels is just an abomination.

You know that scene in Event Horizon where we find out the entire crew became psychotic

It was reading Tony Daniels Detective Comics that caused that

 

[Watchman]

If Batwoman was ever erased/cancelled/killed off i would just stop buying any DC comics

You can't really fault them for that one. If the book has bad numbers then what's the point of keeping it going? I would have stop reading DC like twenty times over if books that I loved were canceled.

And Detective Comics by Tony Daniels is just an abomination.

You know that scene in Event Horizon where we find out the entire crew became psychotic

It was reading Tony Daniels Detective Comics that caused that

An issue was laying in the Ark of the Covenant.

 

[Mystirious]

Tony Daniels

So awful his writing will melt Nazi's faces off

 

[CConn]

He already cut Joker's face off, so why not Nazis too.

 

[Mystirious]

He hates faces almost as much as he loves long lost evil family members

 

[RoughNTumble]

he should cut his own face off imo

 

[HighFivingMF]

Face.

 

[CConn]

Face?

 

[RoughNTumble]

one-face

 

[CConn]

Played by Billy Dee Williams.

 

[RockSP]

 

[CConn]

[YT]QzIN3EgBIHg[/YT]

 

[Primal Slayer]

I don't think many people would read Batman stories if Batman weren't Bruce. Maybe if it were Dick. But past that? I doubt it.

If Batman Beyond can survive 3 seasons and gain loads of fans I am sure a Bruce Wayneless Batman comic could survive if it were good enough.

 

[Hush]

Bruce Wayne played a pivitol role in Batman Beyond. If Bruce is around he needs to be Batman in the comics.

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

Wasn't the Dick Grayson as Bats era incredibly successful?

 

[Phatman]

The New 52 has been a big success for DC. It's not going to change back. There's really no question about that.

The nature of the comic book business is cyclical. Everything ALWAYS reverts back to classic after a period of "new and improved". It's been the way the business has been run since the mid-1980s.


Bucky had a great run as Captain America. But Who is Cap now? Steve Rogers.

Kyle Rayner had solid run as GL for over 100+ issues. But Hal Jordan is Back as the main GL.

Wally West is the Most popular Flash over the past 20 years. But Barry Allen is back form the dead and running around.

Dick Grayson Was a popular Batman. Wildly popular. But Bruce is back as Batman.

Holly Was Catwoman, but Selina is back in the suit.

In the 80's we had Jim Rhodes Iron Man, and John Walker Cap. The 90's had Azbats. But eventually, things went back to status quo.

Once you catch onto the gimmicks you just learn to sit it out and wait for the point where said gimmick stories end.

The return of Wally to the pages of comics is similar to Avengers Vol 2 no. #10 or 11 where Classic Thor came through a portal to the Heroes Reborn Universe at the end of the issue. That set events in motion for the END of the Heroes Reborn Universe and a return of Marvel's Heroes to the 616 and the reboot to a reboot. Been there done, that.

 

[CConn]

I think we all realize it'll revert back eventually. It's just that, due to its success, it won't be any time soon.

 

[Anubis]

Again, it wont revert back. If they change it, it'll be something else entirely. They will not take it back to the late 90's/Early 2,000s. Or even pre-Crisis.

In other words, if you don't like it now, then you're really not gonna like what they do in the next reboot.

 

[Saint]

The nature of the comic book business is cyclical. Everything ALWAYS reverts back to classic after a period of "new and improved". It's been the way the business has been run since the mid-1980s.

Bucky had a great run as Captain America. But Who is Cap now? Steve Rogers.

Kyle Rayner had solid run as GL for over 100+ issues. But Hal Jordan is Back as the main GL.

Wally West is the Most popular Flash over the past 20 years. But Barry Allen is back form the dead and running around.

Dick Grayson Was a popular Batman. Wildly popular. But Bruce is back as Batman.

Holly Was Catwoman, but Selina is back in the suit.

In the 80's we had Jim Rhodes Iron Man, and John Walker Cap. The 90's had Azbats. But eventually, things went back to status quo.

Once you catch onto the gimmicks you just learn to sit it out and wait for the point where said gimmick stories end.

The return of Wally to the pages of comics is similar to Avengers Vol 2 no. #10 or 11 where Classic Thor came through a portal to the Heroes Reborn Universe at the end of the issue. That set events in motion for the END of the Heroes Reborn Universe and a return of Marvel's Heroes to the 616 and the reboot to a reboot. Been there done, that.

Yes, the industry is cyclical (less so if you observe more than the past thirty years), but this is largely irrelevant to the concern of whether the New 52 is going anywhere.

Heroes Reborn was designed as a contained and finite event; the New 52 is a line-wide and long term shift in the publishing approach of the company. Just like we never switched back to Pre-Crisis continuity, we are never switching back to pre-Flashpoint continuity. Changes will be made moving forward,s not backwards, even if those changes resemble backwards steps. As Kurosawa so frequently points out, even though the DC Universe has been changed to superficially resemble the silver age, it is not the silver age. It will never be the silver age. Barry Allen may be back, but we will never go backwards.

Even when the comic book industry restores classical elements (like the pre-Crisis elements of Superman that have been bleeding back in ever since Crisis), it's done by moving forwards, not backwards. This goes for every single example you cited. The reason for this is twofold: 1) the comic book industry is run by creative people, and creative people do not want to spend their time regurgitating someone else's art (even if the distinction is miniscule), and 2) business. Contrary to what you suggested above, even changes that ostensibly involve returning to the "classic" characters and elements are always presented as the "new and improved" approach. Everything is always "new and improved" in comics, because that's business.

Or, simply put: there's a reason every comic book solicitation tells you that "nothing will ever be the same again!" You will never read a solicitation that says "Everything will always be the same again," because that's not how these people sell comics. Pre-Flashpoint continuity is never coming back. Wally will absolutely come back some day, as will plenty of pre-Flashpoint story elements, but the New 52 isn't going anywhere--until they decide to do the next "new and improved" thing.

 

[Anubis]

Which is pretty much what I just said....in five sentences.

 

[Cain]

Heroes Reborn was designed as a contained and finite event

Thank You. I really don't get why people try to use that as a comparison with the DCnU. From the beginning back in '96 Marvel readers knew that it was just an extension of the outcome of Franklin Richards' reaction to the Onslaught event. Nobody ever expected it to stick on a permanent level unlike the New 52.

 

[Kurosawa]

Yes, the industry is cyclical (less so if you observe more than the past thirty years), but this is largely irrelevant to the concern of whether the New 52 is going anywhere.

Heroes Reborn was designed as a contained and finite event; the New 52 is a line-wide and long term shift in the publishing approach of the company. Just like we never switched back to Pre-Crisis continuity, we are never switching back to pre-Flashpoint continuity. Changes will be made moving forward,s not backwards, even if those changes resemble backwards steps. As Kurosawa so frequently points out, even though the DC Universe has been changed to superficially resemble the silver age, it is not the silver age. It will never be the silver age. Barry Allen may be back, but we will never go backwards.

Even when the comic book industry restores classical elements (like the pre-Crisis elements of Superman that have been bleeding back in ever since Crisis), it's done by moving forwards, not backwards. This goes for every single example you cited. The reason for this is twofold: 1) the comic book industry is run by creative people, and creative people do not want to spend their time regurgitating someone else's art (even if the distinction is miniscule), and 2) business. Contrary to what you suggested above, even changes that ostensibly involve returning to the "classic" characters and elements are always presented as the "new and improved" approach. Everything is always "new and improved" in comics, because that's business.

Or, simply put: there's a reason every comic book solicitation tells you that "nothing will ever be the same again!" You will never read a solicitation that says "Everything will always be the same again," because that's not how these people sell comics. Pre-Flashpoint continuity is never coming back. Wally will absolutely come back some day, as will plenty of pre-Flashpoint story elements, but the New 52 isn't going anywhere--until they decide to do the next "new and improved" thing.

You make it sound much better than I see it as being, but then again my stance is that if you disrespect a character, you disrespect it's creator and if you change/disregard/retcon a creators work then you are spitting in their face. This is why I will always maintain that Pre-Crisis and Pre-Crisis only is the legitimate DC continuity and history. Only then did every story count and have to be accounted for.

NOT A SINGLE STORY that Bill Finger ever wrote for Batman, that Jerry Siegel ever wrote for Superman, that Gardner Fox wrote for the JLA or that John Broome wrote for Hal Jordan is canonical in the DCU, and hasn't been for decades. And that's just a small example. The message is clear: the corporation is more important than the artist. And from a business standpoint, it's a reasonable move. From an artistic standpoint, it is disgusting and disrespectful.

So the real problem is not that they go forward-they go back and they disregard the stories written by the characters creators, replacing them with their own versions of the character's history. So Geoff Johns, for example, does not go and read and study John Broome's Green Lantern, and make his "Hal Jordan" consistent with what Broome wrote-he simply disregards EVERYTHING the character's creators did, and replaces it with his own version.

To me, that is insulting and unacceptable.

 

[hippie_hunter]

I think they should just keep it as is

No more reboots or retcons, just work on making the pist flashpoint DCU as good as it can possibly be with good stories, characters and artwork

There are just somethings from the previous universe that should not have been gotten rid of. Simple things like Superman's costume, the Martian Manhunter being a founding member of the League, Superman's marriage to Lois Lane, the legacy of the Teen Titans being rich and vibrant, Wally West, and so on.

But a lot of things such as lefty Superman, the nuGreek style of Wonder Woman, Darkseid being the threat to unite the League, and whatnot, should most definitely remain.