The Dark Knight Rises Design a new Cowl for Robin

[Ronny Shade]

Guidance as in training an underage boy to put his life under risk every night? I don't think any 16 y.o. kid needs that as a guidance or as a picnic day for that matter. It's not helping the kid either. It is condemning the kid to follow a very twisted way of thinking/acting.

Also, prevent Dick to find a true family and keep him living with an adult bachelor is no guidance either. Robin can think he's quitting his childhood, but everybody's else obligation (Bruce's one included) is to help the kid to find a normal/healthy life. Robin is the exact opposite of that.

Because Dick reflects Batman is why Batman shouldn't and wouldn't use the kid as a extension of himself, whether Dick wants it or not.

Bruce Wayne is an inherently obsessive person. He can convince himself that this sort of thing is indeed the "right thing to do" or at least is the best necessary path even if it blatantly isn't. That gives Robin A) a flawed premise, B) a troublesome relationship with his mentor, and C) a very interesting character to explore. I say do it.

 

[S_H_F_4839]

I personally think that they should change the mask, have it cover his head, similar to the old cyclops mask, but have the eyes be like goggles so he can see out, I mean if batman is going to put on the headpiece to protect his head in fights, why would he let this kid go out without some kind of protection over his head. I mean, I like the character of robin, but the costume is flawed if you want to use him in a realistic sense, and I know some will say its impossible to use him in a realistic sense, but I think it could be done, maybe have the mask part be like a sweater hood that comes up, but the goggles are not attached to it.

 

[El Payaso]

Bruce Wayne is an inherently obsessive person. He can convince himself that this sort of thing is indeed the "right thing to do" or at least is the best necessary path even if it blatantly isn't. That gives Robin A) a flawed premise, B) a troublesome relationship with his mentor, and C) a very interesting character to explore. I say do it.

Well, it makes Bruce Wayne a corrupter for a starter. Then we could assume he's really after training more than one kid (if he thinks it's the right thing to do, why limit to one? he needs as much allies as possible).

This makes Batman anything but a hero, more like a sexual obssessive. That could be interesting yes, but dunno if for the wrong reasons.

I still fail how an entire society would allow a womanizer bachelor to take a poor orphan kid and bring him home. Of course all Gotham wills ee a lonely Batman, then Bruce "adopts" Dick, then suddenly there's a Robin next to the bat, but no one will put two and two together.

 

[Ronny Shade]

Well, it makes Bruce Wayne a corrupter for a starter. Then we could assume he's really after training more than one kid (if he thinks it's the right thing to do, why limit to one? he needs as much allies as possible).

This makes Batman anything but a hero, more like a sexual obssessive. That could be interesting yes, but dunno if for the wrong reasons.

I still fail how an entire society would allow a womanizer bachelor to take a poor orphan kid and bring him home. Of course all Gotham wills ee a lonely Batman, then Bruce "adopts" Dick, then suddenly there's a Robin next to the bat, but no one will put two and two together.

First of all, it's not sexual. Never has been.

Second of all, isn't everything Batman does for the wrong reasons? I mean, a healthy way of doing it would be to donate money and help clean out the Gotham PD of all the crooked cops. He lives for vengeance that he can never take. He assaults people on a nightly basis.

3, Batman is a creature of the shadows. Nobody ever sees him. The people who do are scared out of their wits and don't know what's going on. Someone like Gordon might peice it together, but he's not gonna tell anyone. Robin would have to be nearly just as invisible.

 

[El Payaso]

First of all, it's not sexual. Never has been.

No? I don't wanna make a list of every time people laugh at Batman and Robin undisclosed relationship.

Second of all, isn't everything Batman does for the wrong reasons? I mean, a healthy way of doing it would be to donate money and help clean out the Gotham PD of all the crooked cops. He lives for vengeance that he can never take. He assaults people on a nightly basis.

Then it's the wrong ways but not the wrong reasons (justice).

3, Batman is a creature of the shadows. Nobody ever sees him. The people who do are scared out of their wits and don't know what's going on. Someone like Gordon might peice it together, but he's not gonna tell anyone.

And THAT's why Robin isn't wanted or needed.

One, because it would ruin Batman invisibility.
Two, because Batman have help anough in Gordon.

Robin would have to be nearly just as invisible.

With yellow and red and a little mask that destroy the theory of the 'animalistic creature'?

 

[Ronny Shade]

No? I don't wanna make a list of every time people laugh at Batman and Robin undisclosed relationship.

I get pissed every time.

Then it's the wrong ways but not the wrong reasons (justice).

Good point. Still relevant.

And THAT's why Robin isn't wanted or needed.

One, because it would ruin Batman invisibility.
Two, because Batman have help anough in Gordon.

It never hurts to have another pair of eyes. And good luck getting a not-so-impressionable, not-so-angst-ridden adult to help out with something like that.

With yellow and red and a little mask that destroy the theory of the 'animalistic creature'?

Never said it wasn't problematic. That's certainly possible.

 

[The Infernal]

I would like to see Robin introduced in this version of the movieverse but I think I read that Nolan has no interest at all in his character. I think it's a shame but it should be that way for a number of reasons.

1. It is probably too soon to introduce him. Right now Bruce is still finding his feet and the next couple of movies should be him on his own, introducing Robin brings a new dynamic and takes away that Batman and shows us the mentor side of Batman.

2. Bruce Wayne is too young in my opinion. I think they would have to jump significantly forward in the timeline to an older Batman to introduce him. That isn't to say that in a couple of sequels they couldn't introduct Dick Grayson and then introduce Robin a film later.

3. Batman already has The Joker and other classic villains to face, then you have to involve a whole bunch of other characters just to give progress to Robin's story.

Though as I said I would like to see how they could introduce Robin and how he would look. Though I've also thought that it would be cool to see Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman in the same movie as a sort of precursor to a JLA movie.

Though if he were introduce I'm betting that it may involve removing a lot of the colouring that people identify as Robin.

 

[Ronny Shade]

I would like to see Robin introduced in this version of the movieverse but I think I read that Nolan has no interest at all in his character. I think it's a shame but it should be that way for a number of reasons.

1. It is probably too soon to introduce him. Right now Bruce is still finding his feet and the next couple of movies should be him on his own, introducing Robin brings a new dynamic and takes away that Batman and shows us the mentor side of Batman.

2. Bruce Wayne is too young in my opinion. I think they would have to jump significantly forward in the timeline to an older Batman to introduce him. That isn't to say that in a couple of sequels they couldn't introduct Dick Grayson and then introduce Robin a film later.

3. Batman already has The Joker and other classic villains to face, then you have to involve a whole bunch of other characters just to give progress to Robin's story.

Though as I said I would like to see how they could introduce Robin and how he would look. Though I've also thought that it would be cool to see Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman in the same movie as a sort of precursor to a JLA movie.

Though if he were introduce I'm betting that it may involve removing a lot of the colouring that people identify as Robin.

I agree with pretty much everything you just said Robin should not be in the sencond film. The earliest we should see the character MAYBE at the end of part 3. If it is true that Nolan is quitting after 3 films, another director might be willing to bring in Robin.

 

[El Payaso]

1. It is probably too soon to introduce him. Right now Bruce is still finding his feet and the next couple of movies should be him on his own, introducing Robin brings a new dynamic and takes away that Batman and shows us the mentor side of Batman.

Robin in the fourth movie would make this the greatest trilogy.

Though if he were introduce I'm betting that it may involve removing a lot of the colouring that people identify as Robin.

Wise desicion.

 

[Keyser Sushi]

Guidance as in training an underage boy to put his life under risk every night? I don't think any 16 y.o. kid needs that as a guidance or as a picnic day for that matter. It's not helping the kid either. It is condemning the kid to follow a very twisted way of thinking/acting.

You don't listen well, do you? Is there a problem with your reading comprehension skills? I'm going to try and explain this as clearly as I can, but I make no guarantee that you're intelligent enough to understand it. That part is beyond my control.

Suppose, just for a second, that Dick Grayson, teenage acrobat, is orphaned by a killer. Suppose, further, that the circus life is all Dick has ever known. He has friends there, and it's rough life, it involves a lot of travel and a lot of hard work, and he has never had a real home outside of a train car or a truck or bus or whatever they use these days. His family are acrobats. He has already been putting his life on the line every day for as long as he has been physically able to perform on the trapeze.

When his parents are gone, his usefulness to the circus is gone as well. His friends care for him and maybe he tags along with them for a while but he has no real job in the circus any longer.

Now I need you to consider. Dick is not a legal resident of ANY city. He lives on the road. He is a carnie, basically a drifter, and he is a teenager.

In case you sprung, fully grown and in armor from your father's forehead, allow me to explain to you what it is like to be a teenage boy. You are moody. You are, sometimes, a git, and for no reason other than you woke up feeling that way that day. It's a hormonal thing. It happens.

Furthermore, in case you have never experienced the death of a loved one, let me explain to you that it is usually accompanied by a bit of anger and helplessness. And because Dick was present when it happened, he is also going to feel some survivor's guilt.

Now then. As we have established, Dick is a carnie. Therefore, he is used to having to solve his own problems. He's angry at the guy who killed his parents? No problem, the solution is to go kill the guy. He feels helpless for the first time in his life? The solution is to go do something proactive, like, let's say, hunt down his parents' killer. He feels survivor's guilt? Risking his life to avenge his parents deaths would seem to address this concern as well. Dick is going to go out into the night and try to find his parents' murderer. And he isn't going to need Batman's help to do it.

Hell, at this point he doesn't even KNOW Batman.

Now, there is no social services person coming for Dick, because he is not a legal resident of anyplace. There is nobody looking to adopt this kid. And then Bruce Wayne shows up and offers to give him a home. I think Dick is going to resist this, but he's not an adult and the people at the Circus are going to think that Bruce can give Dick a more normal life than they can.

Dick just wants to avenge his parents' deaths. And Bruce... Bruce wants to protect Dick. Bruce wants to save him. Not to make him into his sidekick. Batman works alone. Bruce wants to PROTECT THE KID.

But he can't stop Dick from trying to find his parents' murderer. He just can't. It would be a full-time job and Bruce already ha a full-time job wearing a cape. He wants to protect the innocent and among them is Dick, but he can't protect Dick AND protect everybody else at the same time. And Dick doesn't want protection. Dick is not helpless, and he is not content to stay home or go to school or do any of those things.

Bruce knows the anger that drives Dick. He wants to take that anger away from Dick, but he can't, and Dick is actually SAFER if he is where Batman can keep an eye on him; Dick is SAFER if he has been taught Keysi Fighting Method; Dick is SAFER if he has body armor and tools. Because make no mistake about it: Dick is GOING TO SEEK VENGEANCE regardless of whether Bruce helps him or not. Bruce's guidance could be the difference between a dead child and a living one. (Bruce's guidance being the force that keeps him alive, of course).

So, it IS helping him. Because without Bruce's training, Dick is going to get himself killed. And there's NOT A DAMN THING ANYBODY CAN DO ABOUT THAT.

Also, prevent Dick to find a true family and keep him living with an adult bachelor is no guidance either. Robin can think he's quitting his childhood, but everybody's else obligation (Bruce's one included) is to help the kid to find a normal/healthy life. Robin is the exact opposite of that.

Spare me. Dick never HAD a normal life. He had a happy life with the circus, but it sure as hell wasn't NORMAL. That's kind of the point, isn't it? Dick never had a normal life. He didn't grow up in suburbia playing stickball with Billy and Tim. He grew up shoveling elephant dung and listening to drunken old clowns telling dirty jokes. He grew up with bearded ladies and triple-breasted ****es, he grew up a sort of star in his own little world, learning the family trade and learning to do it right so that he would not die attempting it.

Being Robin sure as hell is not healthy or normal. But for Dick it's the better of his options once his parents have been killed. And if you don't see that, then you are, and I mean this from the bottom of my heart, a fool. Life doesn't fit in a box. Not everybody meets your textbook definition of "normal." Welcome to the world. It's WEIRD here.

Because Dick reflects Batman is why Batman shouldn't and wouldn't use the kid as a extension of himself, whether Dick wants it or not.

I disagree. If you think of Batman as the Burtonized self-loathing obsessive personality, then I can understand how you arrive at that conclusion. But the Batman I know is a hero. He puts his life on the line to save innocent people. Policemen, firefighters, soldiers, Marines, and sailors do it every day. And it was their choice, too. They may not have chosen the war they fight, but they chose to be the ones who fight it.

That's what heroes do; they put aside their own safety to ensure the safety of others. A certain Jew famously did exactly that two-thousand years ago when he allowed himself to be executed by the Roman Empire as an example to Jewish radicals in Israel. Funny how that worked out.

If Robin chose to be a warrior, Batman can't make him take back that choice. And the world needs heroes. A properly trained soldier is always preferable, and less a danger to himself, than one who has no idea what he is doing.

You can moralize all you want. But you'll still be wrong.

 

[Ming]

Secrectly, when I lie in bed after a hard day of classes and enduring over-grown high-school girls gabbering on and on about crap, I smile. Only one thing brings this grin to my face and I love it dearly. You want to know what it is? Listen, I'll tell you:

Robin will never be in the Batman movies that Christopher Nolan directs.

 

[StorminNorman]

Very well stated keyser - it would be very similar to Dark Victory's introduction of Robin.

 

[El Payaso]

You don't listen well, do you? Is there a problem with your reading comprehension skills? I'm going to try and explain this as clearly as I can, but I make no guarantee that you're intelligent enough to understand it. That part is beyond my control.

Ok, we have had a nice talking wiothout idiot boys trying to project themselves.

 

[Katsuro]

Secrectly, when I lie in bed after a hard day of classes and enduring over-grown high-school girls gabbering on and on about crap, I smile. Only one thing brings this grin to my face and I love it dearly. You want to know what it is? Listen, I'll tell you:

Robin will never be in the Batman movies that Christopher Nolan directs.

You know, this is something that really gets to me every time. People just love to put words into Chris Nolan's mouth. I cant remember him saying half the crap that people quote him on about Robin. What I remember hearing is that at this point in Batman's career, it's too early to introduce him, and by the time the story advances to where Robin could be introduced, he doens't think he'll be involved anymore. This isn't to say he refuses to do Robin, or that he'll quit as soon as they do Robin. It simply means that he only plans to do Batman films for a short while, and that he'll probably be done with his films before it's time to bring in Robin. I mean, you cant expect the guy to do comic book adaptations for very long, can you? The guy's gonna want to go off and direct his own films soon, and that's acceptable (Prestige and The Exec sound like interesting films).

So I'm just saying, you probably are right that Robin wont ever be in a Nolan film, but when i hear people say "Nolan said he hates Robin and that he'd rather die than make a movie with him!", I just get a little upset.

 

[Leto Atrides]

I'm not sure on the timetable for the films, but I think Dick could be around as a subplot. Introduce him, and indicate Bruce is beginning to train him. In later films, he could be around, helping Bats but usually on his own patrols. It's not as if Robin has to follow Bats around all of the time. He could be in the background, and help on occasion. If I'm not mistaken (while its Tim and not Dick) Robin as currently written is fairly independent.

 

[Ming]

You know, this is something that really gets to me every time. People just love to put words into Chris Nolan's mouth. I cant remember him saying half the crap that people quote him on about Robin. What I remember hearing is that at this point in Batman's career, it's too early to introduce him, and by the time the story advances to where Robin could be introduced, he doens't think he'll be involved anymore. This isn't to say he refuses to do Robin, or that he'll quit as soon as they do Robin. It simply means that he only plans to do Batman films for a short while, and that he'll probably be done with his films before it's time to bring in Robin. I mean, you cant expect the guy to do comic book adaptations for very long, can you? The guy's gonna want to go off and direct his own films soon, and that's acceptable (Prestige and The Exec sound like interesting films).

So I'm just saying, you probably are right that Robin wont ever be in a Nolan film, but when i hear people say "Nolan said he hates Robin and that he'd rather die than make a movie with him!", I just get a little upset.

Ming-hater.

 

[StorminNorman]

Ok, we have had a nice talking wiothout idiot boys trying to project themselves.

Congrats, you managed not to respond to his actual post.

 

[Keyser Sushi]

Congrats, you managed not to respond to his actual post.

Yep, I noticed that too. I guess he doesn't have what it takes.

Secrectly, when I lie in bed after a hard day of classes and enduring over-grown high-school girls gabbering on and on about crap, I smile. Only one thing brings this grin to my face and I love it dearly. You want to know what it is? Listen, I'll tell you:

Robin will never be in the Batman movies that Christopher Nolan directs.

See, you're probably right.

The funny part is that it doesn't bother me. I prefer Batman to work alone. But people who think Robin can't be done seriously are wrong, so I like to prove them wrong whenever I can. Funny how there are three sides to every argumet.

 

[El Payaso]

Congrats, you managed not to respond to his actual post.

Congrats? There wasn't anything new/worthy to respond.

 

[Keyser Sushi]

Congrats? There wasn't anything new/worthy to respond.

You wish that was true. In actuality, I proved you wrong.

 

[El Payaso]

Yes. Insulting a repeating yourself constitute a proof.

Your prize:

 

[StorminNorman]

Congrats? There wasn't anything new/worthy to respond.

There wasn't? Wow, those last 18 paragraphs must not come up on your computer. Either that or you chose not to see'em.

 

[Keyser Sushi]

Yes. Insulting a repeating yourself constitute a proof.

Your prize:

Oh, very clever! A gay joke! Nobody's ever done that before! Your wit is truly staggering and original. How am I ever going to compete with such a clever intellect?

I actually never insulted you, nor did I repeat myself more than was necessary to make my point to you, and had you actually read my post, you would know that. However, you did not. Which has proven me more right than you can ever know.

 

[El Payaso]

There wasn't? Wow, those last 18 paragraphs must not come up on your computer. Either that or you chose not to see'em.

You kidding? I had a big fight against falling asleep. Good lord I saw that.

 

[El Payaso]

Oh, very clever! A gay joke! Nobody's ever done that before! Your wit is truly staggering and original. How am I ever going to compete with such a clever intellect?

Oh, very clever! A Robin happy fan! Nobody's ever done that before! Your wit is truly staggering and original. How am I ever going to compete with such a clever intellect?

I actually never insulted you, nor did I repeat myself more than was necessary to make my point to you, and had you actually read my post, you would know that. However, you did not. Which has proven me more right than you can ever know.

You really liked your prize