Arrow Dinah Laurel Lance/Katie Cassidy Thread - Part 3

[Paradox1]

@Slade W they did that with Roy last year they made him Arsenal then kill him off. I understand Haynes wanted to leave to pursue his movie career but while he was there he was irrelevant most times to the story kinda sounds familiar to BC.

 

[SpideyVille]

Yeah, I didn't mind Colton leaving, but at least give him something to do for the 18 episodes he was in.

His best episodes were when Oliver was gone, but even then, they had entitled/angry Grandma Felicity calling the shots.

 

[Primal Slayer]

Black Siren.....well I didn't have high hopes of her sticking around but those hopes are gone now.

 

[sleekstereo]

Black Siren.....well I didn't have high hopes of her sticking around but those hopes are gone now.

Actually, that should probably give you more hope.

If the order came down from WB to remove Black Canary from Arrow because they have plans for her on the big screen, this could be the shows way of keeping Katie, by making the the Golden Age Black Siren.

 

[Jake Cassidy]

Actually, that should probably give you more hope.

If the order came down from WB to remove Black Canary from Arrow because they have plans for her on the big screen, this could be the shows way of keeping Katie, by making the the Golden Age Black Siren.

Yeah and keep her on The Flash or, maybe even, LoT. t:

 

[regnak]

Yeah and keep her on The Flash or, maybe even, LoT. t:

Her going to LoT would be great. Not counting on it though.

 

[KillerMcQueen]

Yeah, I'm not the hugest KC fan, but like many others, I hated Laurel in season 2 and grew to appreciate her by season's end and beyond, but to see how the show itself has changed, and how a character like this has been treated because they don't fit with the overall direction that the show has suddenly decided to go in, it just makes me sick.

It's not about being a shipper or hating certain characters, it's about being invested in the show overall, and right now, the show isn't even half a shell of what it used to be.

I think the biggest shame is that this is a comicbook show, and what they've decided to do is take a direction that alienates a lot of comic fans in favor of pandering to the shipper crowd. Arrow used to be a show that was leading the charge helping to steer the CW towards being a network that didn't have a reputation for just pandering to relationship obsessed viewers, and now it's one of their worst examples of it.

 

[KillerMcQueen]

Yeah and keep her on The Flash or, maybe even, LoT. t:

E-2 Laurel on Legends? I'd love that.

 

[Slade W]

My feeling is that the reason Laurel is the one that they are going to kill off is because she is the least popular Team Arrow member. If I am correct about both of those things (ie Laurel being the least popular member and that being the reason they find her to be dispensable), then that is unfair IMO. The reason that she is the least popular member is because of how she was written in the earlier seasons (I had no problem but lots of others sadly did) and some of the mistakes that were made in regards to her character (introducing Sara did not help at all), so the writers deserve blame for her being the least popular member, if that is the case. They should be willing to cut her more slack because of their mistakes. She has been swimming against the tide for a long time, but has done a good job of turning things around and winning more fans over. It will be a damn shame if they pull the rug from under her feet, just when things have been looking up for her.

 

[SpideyVille]

I think the biggest shame is that this is a comicbook show, and what they've decided to do is take a direction that alienates a lot of comic fans in favor of pandering to the shipper crowd. Arrow used to be a show that was leading the charge helping to steer the CW towards being a network that didn't have a reputation for just pandering to relationship obsessed viewers, and now it's one of their worst examples of it.

I feel like it's been a gift and a curse. When Arrow started, it was like a revolution and seeing a live action Green Arrow/ Black Canary combo was awesome, in this universe. But since then, we've gotten The Flash, Legends, Supergirl and all of the characters that have appeared there, and it just seems like the genre in general has gotten too big to the point where Arrow can't do the same things it once did, which ends up hurting it.

Although, the thing I will never forgive it for is trying to be a Batman show for most of last season.

My feeling is that the reason Laurel is the one that they are going to kill off is because she is the least popular Team Arrow member. If I am correct about both of those things (ie Laurel being the least popular member and that being the reason they find her to be dispensable), then that is unfair IMO. The reason that she is the least popular member is because of how she was written in the earlier seasons (I had no problem but lots of others sadly did) and some of the mistakes that were made in regards to her character (introducing Sara did not help at all), so the writers deserve blame for her being the least popular member, if that is the case. They should be willing to cut her more slack because of their mistakes. She has been swimming against the tide for a long time, but has done a good job of turning things around and winning more fans over. It will be a damn shame if they pull the rug from under her feet, just when things have been looking up for her.

I've been watching a lot more wrestling these days, and the comparison I'll make to Laurel in season 2 is that she was booked to draw heat, which means she was written to look bad, and the fact that she got the reaction that she did shows that she played that role super well. You can hate the character all you want, but you can't deny that she played her part well.

She's still not super popular, but she deserves to get more spotlight than she has been. There's no reason why most of her scenes last season ended up as deleted scenes on the DVD.

And one last wrestling reference, Felicity is Roman Reigns t:

 

[ZIPBAGS]

Regarding the spoiler gravestone pic....

[blackout] i have heard people think it's Laurel. But, unless I am looking at the wrong grave pic. The stone says Dinah Laurel Lance and has a birth year of 1955. So isn't that Momma Lance?[/blackout]

 

[Nathan]

Regarding the spoiler gravestone pic....

Spoiler

i have heard people think it's Laurel. But, unless I am looking at the wrong grave pic. The stone says Dinah Laurel Lance and has a birth year of 1955. So isn't that Momma Lance?

Spoiler

It says 1985, not 1955.

 

[Loki882]

The thing about S2 is that they may have done their job a bit TOO well. Like she was meant to be unlikeable, and the redeem herself. But many viewers, and I've talked to more than a few myself, just came to dislike her so much that they gave up. They're not interested in her or where she'd going now, and the writers basically can do nothing to win them back at this point. Then you have stuff like:

-In S3 and 4, she'll be going along fie and then suddenly you'll have her uncharacteristically stupid or selfish for multiple episodes, and then it's brushed aside very sloppily.

-Many people being ticked off that they killed Sara so lamely and feeling like they rushed Laurel into the BC costume too quickly after that (double whammy there).

-Her inconsistently-portrayed skills/combat prowess.

-Her not getting enough to do in-general.

-Etc.

Basically, the writers keep shooting themselves in the foot when it comes to her character.

 

[O'Haire]

Basically, the writers keep shooting themselves in the foot when it comes to her character.

With all the characters IMO. Well maybe not Thea and Diggle. They have been the only consistent ones for the last couple of seasons.

Hope something happens ratings wise after this episode. Guggenheim is a hack and should be gotten rid of.

 

[SpideyVille]

Thea has been the most inconsistent character to be honest. She's literally a different person each season, and her behavior never seems to match the things she says 2-3 episodes before.

 

[DeadFan]

-In S3 and 4, she'll be going along fie and then suddenly you'll have her uncharacteristically stupid or selfish for multiple episodes, and then it's brushed aside very sloppily.

For me this fits more with my experience of Felicity S3/S4 rather than Laurel

 

[SpideyVille]

Not even Oliver has been written consistently in the past two seasons. Heck, the second hall of last season was full of weird decisions, such as trusting Malcolm, and joining the League.

 

[Nathan]

Yeah, no one is really safe. Oliver was pretty much brain damaged in Season 3.

 

[batdude]

I feel like it's been a gift and a curse. When Arrow started, it was like a revolution and seeing a live action Green Arrow/ Black Canary combo was awesome, in this universe. But since then, we've gotten The Flash, Legends, Supergirl and all of the characters that have appeared there, and it just seems like the genre in general has gotten too big to the point where Arrow can't do the same things it once did, which ends up hurting it.

Although, the thing I will never forgive it for is trying to be a Batman show for most of last season.


I've been watching a lot more wrestling these days, and the comparison I'll make to Laurel in season 2 is that she was booked to draw heat, which means she was written to look bad, and the fact that she got the reaction that she did shows that she played that role super well. You can hate the character all you want, but you can't deny that she played her part well.

She's still not super popular, but she deserves to get more spotlight than she has been. There's no reason why most of her scenes last season ended up as deleted scenes on the DVD.

And one last wrestling reference, Felicity is Roman Reigns t:

To be honest, that is when I thought there might be something to those rumours. the deleted scenes and Guggenheim's commentary. Yes, KC is very talented. I'm just saying there is a disconnect between how she is on Arrow compared to other shows Even Flash. It wouldn't have killed them to hook her up with Cisco or maybe even Constantine for one episode.

 

[SpideyVille]

To be honest, that is when I thought there might be something to those rumours. the deleted scenes and Guggenheim's commentary. Yes, KC is very talented. I'm just saying there is a disconnect between how she is on Arrow compared to other shows Even Flash. It wouldn't have killed them to hook her up with Cisco or maybe even Constantine for one episode.

She smiled more on Flash last season in her two short scenes then she did during the entire season of Arrow. Yes, the tones were a little different, but she came across as so much more natural and likable there.

 

[vantheman77]

Maybe Katie should cross over to the Flash or Legends as Black Siren who comes to Earth-1 from Earth-2. Do we know if her Black Siren is a hero or villain?

 

[Primal Slayer]

It's been fun Katie, 1 more episode till the series finale.

 

[Slade W]

 

[godisawesome]

I always felt that the real problem Laurel had, at least for someone like me, was that her initial portrayal felt extremely generic for a CW show. Cassidy was great at her job, but I often felt the writing and characterization given the character was far too mild and unimpressive; there's a reason why her best scenes were with Tommy, and formed a very prototypical CW drama story you could plug into any CW show without much issue.

She wasn't initially written as Dinah Lance, future badass Black Canary, she was written as Laurel Lance, the intended audience surrogate for the tween to teen girl demographic, for people like my sister. But she was pretty bland outside of the scenes with Tommy because they didn't really want her to be a proto-superhero in Season one. And they shot themselves in the foot even more by having her make some stupid decisions and comes off as a faux-action girl; I still remember the moment they had her pull out a shotgun against assassins, then fire it once to reveal she had no more bullets, which made her come off as incompetent when she could have been a principled everygirl (without a shotgun) or an action girl (with more bullets.)

And then they seriously mis-stepped in Season two by postponing her development and giving us a much more archetypal heroine in Sara while discovering that Felicity was (accidentally created) a better audience surrogate all while putting Laurel through the ringer. They managed to resuscitate the character in Season 3, but that was a poor season to get resuscitated in.

And PS, now I think we're seeing how it doesn't help a character to be seen by the creators as the tween girl audience surrogate again.

 

[DigificWriter]

And then they seriously mis-stepped in Season two by postponing her development

It might seem strange that I'm going to defend Marc Guggenheim after the inexplicable decision that was made tonight, but the notion that Laurel's own development was "postponed" in favor of introducing Sara just isn't accurate, because Sara's introduction WAS PART of Laurel's development, and was always intended to be so.