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🌎 Discussion: Civil Rights, Affirmative Action, Critical Race Theory, Systemic Inequality, and Racism - Part 4

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But nah, benefit of the doubt for this guy I guess. Don't jump to conclusions, he's on the favored side of the political aisle.
Where the hell are you seeing this happen? Certainly not here. Which reminds me...

Remember your countdown to people defending that journalist that sent death threats to those Covington kids? Cause I do.
 
They haven't condemned the deputy guy yet, just the blackfaced dudes. It seems to be
benefit of the doubt" for now, though that'll admittedly probably change in the next few days with the "**** that b*tch" comment NBC's running with.
 
again..HE DID ACT ON HIS IMPULSE..FOR A WHILE...

Neeson appeared on "Good Morning America" on Tuesday to apologize and said that he's "not racist."

"I went out deliberately into black areas in this city looking to be set upon so I could unleash physical violence. And I did it for maybe four or five times until I caught myself on, and it really shocked me, this primal urge I had. It shocked me and it hurt me. I did seek help," Neeson said. "I'm not racist. This was nearly 40 years ago."

Were he to have been able to provoke a confrontation with a black man and kill that guy DAYS into his plan... you could call that premediation. The nitty gritty of the issue for me is Liam Neeson was operating under a mindset...not rage.. rage doesn't last a week. At that time he had a deep seated hatred for black people and then he had an excuse to act on it. The fact that nothing happened has more to do with angels or dumb luck than anything.

The ONLY REASON nothing happened is because the black man..ANY black man he wanted to beat to death didn't pay any attention to him because you know they were going on about their business LIKE EVERY FREAKIN BODY ELSE ON THE PLANET. After a WEEK, Liam Neeson discovered black men aren't violent beasts.

Now the conversation and dissection of his story that we SHOULD be trying to have is why did he feel that way and where did it come from? And is that mindset still prevalent TODAY?

Err.. anger/rage can & does last for a week sometimes even longer depending on the severity of the issue triggering your anger is and the type of personality you have. I can think of a handful of things that have happened in my own life that maybe happened years ago that if I dwell on the thought for long enough would still make me angry to this very day.

This is a very dumb argument from a person who only listened to the sound bit and not actually what Neeson said.

Here is someone who did listen.



Saw that the other morning on the news, all I have to say is; John Barnes -

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Err.. anger/rage can & does last for a week sometimes even longer depending on the severity of the issue triggering your anger is and the type of personality you have. I can think of a handful of things that have happened in my own life that maybe happened years ago that if I dwell on the thought for long enough would still make me angry to this very day.



Saw that the other morning on the news, all I have to say is; John Barnes -

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As you know B, I am a big football fan. So I have seen quite a bit of John Barnes talking on race. It is always interesting. There is a level of realness to him that is missing in a lot of these discussions. Realness and logic.
 
As you know B, I am a big football fan. So I have seen quite a bit of John Barnes talking on race. It is always interesting. There is a level of realness to him that is missing in a lot of these discussions. Realness and logic.

Always enjoy listening to John Barnes talk about pretty much anything, he's got a voice that's very easy to listen to, he's well thought out, smart & as you said, logical. Quite easily could have jumped on the bandwagon with a lot of others slating Liam Neeson & his comments, but he actually used his own mind to formulate his own opinion on the matter as opposed to just reading the click bait titles of many articles on the matter.

Barnes is especially good to listen to on topics such as this in which he's got some passion with given his history, it's actually kinda sad that I only ever tend to see him talk on TV anymore when there is some sort of racism story regarding football obviously given his own experiences. Maybe he does punditry work & it's just not on Sky or BT Sport which are the 2 primary carriers of football in the UK.. ? I'm not sure.
 
He's still not taking it far enough, addressing the obvious notion that it doesn't matter that it's a black guy. If she'd described the offender as any other appearance, he'd have been directing the rageful revenge fantasies at them.

It's wrong behavior, but people don't exactly behave rationally in the immediate aftermath of something that horrible.

This guy also just slapped the "white supremacist" crap on Churchill too, clearly he's someone looking for this stuff when it'snot necessarily there. Oversimplifications.

Neeson's also not getting career-curbstomped over this like this guy's putting out there. Give it a year, it'll blow over. The types that consider someone like Neeson a racist aren't going to be the types going to see his lame French-action-movie-clone anyway, no reasonable person's going to boycott the guy over something this nothingburger.
 
This is a very dumb argument from a person who only listened to the sound bit and not actually what Neeson said.

Here is someone who did listen.



About as dumb as suggesting Neeson deserves a medal.
 
This is a very dumb argument from a person who only listened to the sound bit and not actually what Neeson said.

Here is someone who did listen.



He is right that it will make people fearful to ever admit they were wrong and share their personal testimony.

People jumping on Liam Neeson now for something he thought 40 years ago and had a change of heart is like looking at "before and after" photos for weight watchers or a fitness expert who shows how they used to be hugely overweight but then got into shape and began living a healthy lifestyle. If they say "this is what I was like before" in order to inspire people to change, then imagine someone ignores the "after" photo and says "I refuse to accept what you're saying. You're clearly fat!"

Or most films or TV shows involve a character arc or personal journey where someone is not the same person they were at the end of the story compared to the beginning. Imagine only watching the beginning of a film or a show and judging the character on that instead of seeing what they become and the process they had to get there.
 
He is right that it will make people fearful to ever admit they were wrong and share their personal testimony.

People jumping on Liam Neeson now for something he thought 40 years ago and had a change of heart is like looking at "before and after" photos for weight watchers or a fitness expert who shows how they used to be hugely overweight but then got into shape and began living a healthy lifestyle. If they say "this is what I was like before" in order to inspire people to change, then imagine someone ignores the "after" photo and says "I refuse to accept what you're saying. You're clearly fat!"

Or most films or TV shows involve a character arc or personal journey where someone is not the same person they were at the end of the story compared to the beginning. Imagine only watching the beginning of a film or a show and judging the character on that instead of seeing what they become and the process they had to get there.

Like watching Schindler’s List but turning it off after twenty minutes and then going on a rant about how you can’t believe anyone calls Schindler a hero when all he did was use Jews for slave labor, throw money around, and mow through women.
 
About as dumb as suggesting Neeson deserves a medal.
You should actually watch the video. Also read the tweet you posted. The tweet doesn't even make contextual sense.
 
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You should actually watch the video.

Obviously I watched the video, since I knew he said Neeson deserved a medal. He was being facetious (I assume), but it was still dumb.

Also read the tweet you posted. The tweet doesn't even make contextual sense.

Nope. I'm going to continue to use my mutant ability to post tweets related to the topic at hand without having read them. :dry:

If you don't agree with her, cool. Not sure why it doesn't make sense. She feels people are clamoring for understanding and "forgiveness" and medal ceremonies for Neeson because his past irrational anger was directed at blacks, and that they wouldn't be doing that if his rage had been directed at animals.
 
Obviously I watched the video, since I knew he said Neeson deserved a medal. He was being facetious (I assume), but it was still dumb.
It's the title of the video. And the part you have mentioned twice from the video. None of the substance or even why he said it.


Nope. I'm going to continue to use my mutant ability to post tweets related to the topic at hand without having read them. :dry:

If you don't agree with her, cool. Not sure why it doesn't make sense. She feels people are clamoring for understanding and "forgiveness" and medal ceremonies for Neeson because his past irrational anger was directed at blacks, and that they wouldn't be doing that if his rage had been directed at animals.
Well I didn't want to write out that you need to critically read it, but fine. Contextually it makes no sense because the equivalence doesn't match. It is also wrong. Michael Vick actually tortured and murdered gods and his career didn't tank. He got back in the NFL and now works on television.

I am curious. How do you expect society to fix these issues if they aren't allowed to acknowledge them? One of the big issues here has put Neeson on the back foot for doing the right thing. Now he is trying to walk it back, which is not nearly as helpful. Such feelings that display how society can turn all black people into predators in a white person's eyes should be exposed as to try and solve the issue. Instead, many are attacking a man for being honest about a problem he also got help for. This closes down the conversation, just leaving us in a world full of the same kind of racism.
 
Well to be honest, Churchill was racist. That’s not some big secret. Though I also think it should be kept in mind the guy grew up in 19th century old school aristocratic “the sun never sets on the British Empire” England, not 2019.
Yeah, a blunt and annoying facet of pretty much all of human history is the sheer amount of casual racism/ethnocentrism that almost ever every single historical figure is going to display.

If you’re really “lucky,” it’s the less dogmatic ethnocentrism, where there’s no faux-biological component to it and it runs mostly off ignorance. Generally, it’s just flat out, unabashed prejudice.

And to be frank, studying he issue for any amount of time will expose how stupid the divisions are and how arbitrary and weird racism is, and how sometimes civil rights heroes are still pretty unpleasant or just way, way too complicated for a simple viewpoint.

I mean, LBJ was basically the fist of Jim Crow when he was Speaker of the House, then became the President who actually got the Civil Rights Act passed using all the dirty tricks and arm-twisting tactics he’s deployed to defend segregation and racism.

Lincoln delivered the Emancipation Proclamation and 13th Amendment. Frederick Douglas knew Loncoln was *still* pretty racist, but worked with him to try and open his eyes.

Admittedly, America and other immigrant-based countries have a strange aspect to issues of race created by how the definition ends up being stretched further than other societies throughout time. I mean, the French used literally to use the word for “English” to also mean “Evil,” but most of the descendants of both in America are just “white.” And “black” is a term used to refer to an entire frickin’ continent’s descendants... even as actual ethnic and “color” dividers with “whites” have been crossed enough that the distinction sometimes does just become a visual label, as shallow as that is. “Latino,” “Asian,” “Middle-eastern” are all laughably limited phrases in trying to identify someone’s ethnicty. On some level, anyone who’s put any thought into race relations has realized absurdity of some ethnicities are allowed to mix and consolidate into one new identity, while others are excluded or forced into yet another identity.
 
He's still not taking it far enough, addressing the obvious notion that it doesn't matter that it's a black guy. If she'd described the offender as any other appearance, he'd have been directing the rageful revenge fantasies at them.

That's not necessarily true though. Part of the value of the story is how quickly Neeson bundled all black people together. You can't say that he would have done the same if a white person had done it or an Asian American.

This guy also just slapped the "white supremacist" crap on Churchill too, clearly he's someone looking for this stuff when it'snot necessarily there. Oversimplifications.

Winston Churchill was pretty upfront about his views, which were pretty clearly prejudiced. There's plenty of there there. And it's not wrong to call a spade a spade, especially if it's from someone several decades earlier. Like... I owe a lot to Thomas Jefferson, obviously. But he was clearly a racist. There's no problem with saying that. In fact, the real problem would be from not saying it.
 
I do not understand the idea that you can't point out important figures of the past were racist. Doing something important in history, does not give you a cloak of invisibility on the matter. Considering how the Western world in general has treated minorities until very recently, you should expect it from important white gentleman in history.
 
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It's the title of the video. And the part you have mentioned twice from the video. None of the substance or even why he said it.

Heh, well I didn't even pay attention to the video's title.
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And I never said I disagreed with his main point, so the substance of the video has nothing to do with me mentioning it.

Well I didn't want to write out that you need to critically read it, but fine. Contextually it makes no sense because the equivalence doesn't match. It is also wrong. Michael Vick actually tortured and murdered gods and his career didn't tank. He got back in the NFL and now works on television.

You seem to want to harp on me mentioning the medal thing but yet can't seem to see that she was being hyperbolic just as that guy was. Mike Vick went to prison over some dogs and I've read people on this forum and elsewhere expressing anger that he didn't do more time.

When that black kid fell into the ape enclosure at the zoo a few years ago people were complaining about them killing the ape to save the kid, and how terrible the parents were. Then when that white kid got ate by an alligator at the beach I read on this very board someone trying to say that you can't compare the parents in that situation to the ape thing. :huh:

I can't post it here due to language but just search "Cedric the lion, cousin to Cecil" on youtube. It's a comedian poking fun of the outrage people felt over the death of Cecil the lion and how he's using it to keep himself safe.

So yeah I can understand that lady's main point as well.

I am curious. How do you expect society to fix these issues if they aren't allowed to acknowledge them? One of the big issues here has put Neeson on the back foot for doing the right thing. Now he is trying to walk it back, which is not nearly as helpful. Such feelings that display how society can turn all black people into predators in a white person's eyes should be exposed as to try and solve the issue. Instead, many are attacking a man for being honest about a problem he also got help for. This closes down the conversation, just leaving us in a world full of the same kind of racism.

Me disagreeing with you that what that person posted is dumb =/= to me thinking Neeson (or anyone else) shouldn't acknowledge their past prejudices.
 
Mike Vick went to prison over some dogs and I've read people on this forum and elsewhere expressing anger that he didn't do more time.

Absolutely. Mike Vick doesn't deserve to be outside for decades. Killing dogs is like killing people. And he didn't just kill them. He tortured them. And this wasn't one or two dogs. He financed the operation... with multiple dogs being tortured at multiple events. From the inspector general report - ""Vick, Peace and Phillips thought it was funny to watch the pit bull dogs belonging to Bad Newz Kennels injure or kill the other dogs."

And after that, he tried to place all the blame on his associate, until he failed the polygraph test, showing that he hung at least 3 dogs, and drowned 3 others. At least.

Mike Vick is trash. He deserves to be in prison for a long long time.

How this compares to Neeson saying he thought about doing something once, but really didn't... and then regretted even thinking about it.... I truly don't know. False equivalency up to the wazoo.
 
Killing dogs is like killing people.

Nope.

How this compares to Neeson saying he thought about doing something once, but really didn't... and then regretted even thinking about it.... I truly don't know. False equivalency up to the wazoo.

That rant over dogs is what she was referring to. She clearly feels that if Neeson had said the same thing but replace the "black bastard" with "canine bastard" then there wouldn't be this understanding and praise for his honesty.
 
That rant over dogs is what she was referring to. She clearly feels that if Neeson had said the same thing but replace the "black bastard" with "canine bastard" then there wouldn't be this understanding and praise for his honesty.

Honestly, I think the reaction has been decidedly mixed. Some people think he's be genuine and vulnerable. Other people think it shows deranged racist thinking.

Now, if Neeson had come out and said... "My girlfriend was viscously attacked by this pit bull. She had to go to the hospital and it was really traumatic. And for a week, I walked around just looking for a pit bull to drop kick to death. You know... I'd look around tirelessly for pit bulls, cause I wanted to f-ing kill em. And then after the week, I reflected on it... and I was like... what am I doing? This is crazy. And I really regretted how I thought that."
.... would I applaud him as being honest or authentic in that moment? Probably not. He's talking about a dog. It's not a human being, and what he is saying is basically pretty understandable. Yeah... one of your friends had a traumatic experience, and you were pre-judging a breed of dog. Makes sense. That'd be the end of it.

But since Neeson was talking about human beings, it does become more brave. It takes courage, in this world today, to admit that you have racial bias... even though most of us do. We all want to say that we treat everyone the same... but if we're being honest, we'd admit that each demographic groups comes with it's own preconceived perceptions, some good some bad, and it's nearly impossible to look at people with true color blindness. We all have preconceived notions about certain groups, and we all act out those notions subconsciously. But we don't want to admit that. It's a dirty little secret that we all do with each other. Neeson was saying, "No - the truth is I had some messed up views of black people." I don't know how to look at that admission as anything besides a good thing.
 
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Heh, well I didn't even pay attention to the video's title.
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And I never said I disagreed with his main point, so the substance of the video has nothing to do with me mentioning it.


You seem to want to harp on me mentioning the medal thing but yet can't seem to see that she was being hyperbolic just as that guy was. Mike Vick went to prison over some dogs and I've read people on this forum and elsewhere expressing anger that he didn't do more time.

When that black kid fell into the ape enclosure at the zoo a few years ago people were complaining about them killing the ape to save the kid, and how terrible the parents were. Then when that white kid got ate by an alligator at the beach I read on this very board someone trying to say that you can't compare the parents in that situation to the ape thing. :huh:

I can't post it here due to language but just search "Cedric the lion, cousin to Cecil" on youtube. It's a comedian poking fun of the outrage people felt over the death of Cecil the lion and how he's using it to keep himself safe.

So yeah I can understand that lady's main point as well.
John Barnes wasn't being hyperbolic. If you knew John Barnes, you'd realize that. Nor was his main point so egregiously wrong. Barnes is reinforcing the idea of dialogue and how white people should not be shamed for expressing such things.

Michael Vick tortured and murdered animals. For a very long time. That is a ****ing awful crime, that you are just playing down and I am not sure why. Maybe to try and make the initial tweet not look so dumb. But that he got to return to his job and is well off, clearly his career didn't tank and he is making plenty of money. And he didn't just say he'd kill dogs, he actually did it. Tortured them, killed them. So no, her point is factually wrong.

Attachment to pets are in our DNA. It is why we have them in the first place. But the idea that outrage over crimes against animals compares to the outrage involving black people being wronged, is just wrong.

This is before we get into comparing black people to an animal. Which is dehumanizing, and also ignores the fact that the actions of a human are far different then the actions of an animal.

Me disagreeing with you that what that person posted is dumb =/= to me thinking Neeson (or anyone else) shouldn't acknowledge their past prejudices.
What that person posted leads to people not acknowledging their past prejudice. Leading to more underlying and not so underlying racism to fester, be made worse. So yeah, what she wrote was harmful and thus very dumb.
 
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