🌎 Discussion: Civil Rights, Affirmative Action, Critical Race Theory, Systemic Inequality, and Racism - Part 4

[AResistor]

racism is a verb its an action. When its systemized its the way things are. By and large in a society thats based on an arbitrary racial concept like skin color designations (white and black) generally speaking white people regardless of their class benefit from a system that favors white over non white even if the benefit is not being denied opportunity. But the most basic benefit whites enjoy regardless of class is just not being perceived a threat in the same way nonwhites are in society.

I'd agree with that.

All have racist beliefs (I'm a hispanic, I certainly know I hold racial bias against some white people), but systematically the country IS (as you stated) more racist against people who aren't white.

 

[AResistor]

racism is a verb its an action. When its systemized its the way things are. By and large in a society thats based on an arbitrary racial concept like skin color designations (white and black) generally speaking white people regardless of their class benefit from a system that favors white over non white even if the benefit is not being denied opportunity. But the most basic benefit whites enjoy regardless of class is just not being perceived a threat in the same way nonwhites are in society.

Liam Neeson was exercising not just bigotry in his reaction and blind rage. But living in a country where being white is a distinct advantage over non white in terms of how the justice system works there its a pretty fair bet that had be actually killed a random black man he would have most likely gotten off much lighter than if the situation was reversed. The system would have worked to some degree in his favor. You want a historical example of that...read the case of emmett till.

My goal in saying that all people have racial bias is to open it up and hopefully help white people to be more comfortable with being able to admit that they hold racist beliefs.

I don't see why saying all white people hold racist beliefs at one point or another is controversial because studies show all people hold racist beliefs and stereotype others. As I have given examples of as a hispanic against white people, which should hopefully help to make it easier for people to start a process of introspection. Racial bias impacts everyone. However, it doesn't need to define and it can be overcome or improved upon.

As you and I both know as minorities - even our allies have some areas to work out that call for introspection. For example, a recent study was done that surprisingly showed white liberals dumb themselves down when speaking to people of other races whereas conservatives do not. That isn't to say in race relations liberals are worse than conservatives, they're leagues better - but there's still a divide that needs to, should, and can be overcome.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...ontends/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.40857469e6a1

That isn't to say our allies with racist beliefs should be ashamed or be labeled evil for recognizing that it's there - rather admitting to it is the first stage in the process to hopefully improve this. It calls for people to be introspective.

The first step is admitting that there is something there because once you admit it, then you can see it in your own life and you can start making strides towards changing those beliefs. That's how I overcame Islamophobia for example, admitting it was there and then changing those beliefs.

I think introspection would help people switch from calling people who are reasonably upset and outraged about what Liam Neeson did "SJWs" to seeing it from your, among others in the black community's, perspective. Since it isn't due to "need for being outraged" or "seeking to be outraged," but rather from a legitimate hurt and pain within the black community that even allies have difficulty empathizing with. To me, introspection is one thing that could help to lead to improving overall empathy.

I get the further hurt that the black community feels from white people undermining what Liam did in the past because as a bisexual man - I remember what it was like when straight people were undermining what Kevin Hart did. I know that even after an apology, the pain still remains. The weird thing for me is white anti-Trump people labeling hurt black people over Liam Neeson "SJW" and straight anti-Trump people labeling hurt lgbtq people over Kevin Hart "SJW" - it shows a disconnect even among people who in other circumstances strive to be allies. People need to start listening to others more. That the answer through is acknowledging that there are blind spots, that everyone has prejudices to overcome, and working on empathy to overcome it.

 

[Teelie]

If all people ever do is get angry then what does that accomplish? What does condemning someone for one time in their life, 40 years ago, accomplish? He was open about something he did and the response is he's racist and no looking beyond that. It's done. He's forever tainted. What does that accomplish? Who does that help? What kind of resolution is expected?

 

[AResistor]

If all people ever do is get angry then what does that accomplish? What does condemning someone for one time in their life, 40 years ago, accomplish? He was open about something he did and the response is he's racist and no looking beyond that. It's done. He's forever tainted. What does that accomplish? Who does that help? What kind of resolution is expected?

I'm not calling for Liam Neeson's career to end, just like I didn't call for Hart's career to end. That said, I wouldn't want Neeson to host the oscars right now either.

With that said though, people can do a much better job than lashing out at target minority groups whenever something like this happens.

When a minority group is targeted, it should be the role or duty of the group that isn't targeted to listen to that group. To see and try to understand where they are coming from rather than to mock or lash out at them. That is the only way the country can progress.

Just look over the pages concerning Liam Neeson and you'll see many of the black members commenting as though they are being overlooked. Then they're piled upon. To me, that's problematic.

We need less jumping the gun and more listening, deferring, and understanding. Liam did that in the interview today. He sat, deferred, and listened. That's what told me he was genuine and I'm willing to bet he continued the conversation with the reporter afterwards to try to understand more. He wanted to hear what she had to say.

Is it my place to say people are over reacting to him like people are doing here? No. It's not my place to say if it's under or over reacting. It's my place to sit, defer to the group that was targeted and impacted the most, and to genuinely listen to them since it is their voices that matter the most.

 

[Teelie]

I agree, I see a lot of instant condemnation and anger. There is nothing wrong feeling that given the story but at what point does it move on to something else?

I do understand no matter what he says or does, there is no erasing what happened. What comes after that is up to the individual.

 

[AResistor]

I agree, I see a lot of instant condemnation and anger. There is nothing wrong feeling that given the story but at what point does it move on to something else? He was frank about a situation he was ashamed of but so far it mostly centers on what happened then, not what happened after. I guess that will take more time to happen. If every time someone comes out and says this, no one is going to ever admit to anything again and just keep it buried which to me does no good for reconciliation.

It is not our place to say when someone should move on.

Would you tell the victim of a crime "okay, that's it, time to move along now." No.

If one says, but it's not a crime - one has to remember the amount of baggage that accompanies it. Today was Trayvon Martin's birthday. So hearing a white man speaking about how he wandered around looking for a random black man to kill - that is going to be triggering to many in the black community and understandably so.

One has to remember the baggage.

When Kevin Hart "joked" about assaulting his potentially gay son - all many lgbtq people could think of was how many that happens to in real life. Everyone jumping on mocking many in the lgbtq community for being offended rather than listening to us - many of whom experienced gay bashing at one point or another - that only added insult to the injury to the point where it's not surprising that Kevin Hart came up again like he did after the attack on Jussie weeks later.

Matthew Shepard was killed 20 years ago. I still feel that.

The hurt is real. Minorities shouldn't be attacked over that, rather people should try to be more understanding and to hear them out. The world needs to become more empathetic.

Liam Neeson expected the backlash and as one can see from the interview today - he wants to hear what people have to say. That's why he deferred and asked questions. It'd be nice if folks here could do the same.

 

[Teelie]

I never said it was time for anyone to move on. I just asked how long does that take? How long do you hold onto that kind of anger? I have held onto anger for years. I know it isn't something you just get over after a preset time. But holding onto it also does not let you heal from it either.

 

[AResistor]

I never said it was time for anyone to move on. I just asked how long does that take? How long do you hold onto that kind of anger? I have held onto anger for years. I know it isn't something you just get over after a preset time. But holding onto it also does not let you heal from it either.

Agreed, anger shouldn't be held onto. How long and to what degree depends on each individual.

I can say that calling for people to move on only adds to it though.

 

[RockSP]

 

[moviedoors]

You can insert basically any group into this scenario and my reaction remains the same: wow, Liam Neeson was in a dark, terrible, ugly, shameful frame of mind. Thank god he never acted on it and he seems to have learned from it.

 

[AResistor]

I'd definitely agree with that being unfortunately the case for many since the group that isn't the target typically always screams for forgiveness.

That said, her case would've been stronger without mentioning PETA - that organization is crazy.

 

[Erzengel]

I get that no one has the right to tell people how to feel or how long it should take for them to get over/move on, however, I think it'd be less "SJW" if people would say something more along the lines, "Yeah, this happened 40 years ago, and I know he said, he talked to his priest and friends and came to a better understanding of his behavior." but I still need to process this, etc. instead of trying to liken it to a scenario regarding PETA.

 

[RockSP]

That said, her case would've been stronger without mentioning PETA - that organization is crazy.

True indeed.

 

[AResistor]

(1)I get that no one has the right to tell people how to feel or how long it should take for them to get over/move on, however, (2)I think it'd be less "SJW" if people would say something more along the lines, "Yeah, this happened 40 years ago, and I know he said, he talked to his priest and friends and came to a better understanding of his behavior." but I still need to process this, etc.

(1) contradicts (2), "non-minorities shouldn't have the right tell minorities how to feel about it, but non-minorities wouldn't lash out at them for the way they respond if the minorities responded like this..."

Basically, you want minorities who were targeted to have a formal and emotionless response to something which stirs up a lot of emotions in minorities for obvious reasons. All of these incidents come with pre-attached baggage that minorities feel on a visceral level while non-minorities don't. I try not to use this word often, but it's our 'privilege' that allows us to not have a visceral reaction to it.

 

[Erzengel]

For the record, I'm a minority. I'm also 25% white, but I would never pass or be treated as one.

 

[AResistor]

For the record, I'm a minority. I'm also 25% white, but I would never pass or be treated as one.

Black or hispanic or? As a hispanic guy, I know that judging the black community isn't my place.

 

[hellified]

You can insert basically any group into this scenario and my reaction remains the same: wow, Liam Neeson was in a dark, terrible, ugly, shameful frame of mind. Thank god he never acted on it and he seems to have learned from it.

again..HE DID ACT ON HIS IMPULSE..FOR A WHILE...

Neeson appeared on "Good Morning America" on Tuesday to apologize and said that he's "not racist."

"I went out deliberately into black areas in this city looking to be set upon so I could unleash physical violence. And I did it for maybe four or five times until I caught myself on, and it really shocked me, this primal urge I had. It shocked me and it hurt me. I did seek help," Neeson said. "I'm not racist. This was nearly 40 years ago."

Were he to have been able to provoke a confrontation with a black man and kill that guy DAYS into his plan... you could call that premediation. The nitty gritty of the issue for me is Liam Neeson was operating under a mindset...not rage.. rage doesn't last a week. At that time he had a deep seated hatred for black people and then he had an excuse to act on it. The fact that nothing happened has more to do with angels or dumb luck than anything.

The ONLY REASON nothing happened is because the black man..ANY black man he wanted to beat to death didn't pay any attention to him because you know they were going on about their business LIKE EVERY FREAKIN BODY ELSE ON THE PLANET. After a WEEK, Liam Neeson discovered black men aren't violent beasts.

Now the conversation and dissection of his story that we SHOULD be trying to have is why did he feel that way and where did it come from? And is that mindset still prevalent TODAY?

 

[Teelie]

Not to be totally pedantic (just a little) but it would be any German Shepherd, not any dog. And PETA is not who I would cite as an example (ASPCA would be better).

 

[moviedoors]

HE DID ACT ON HIS IMPULSE

I think you know what I meant.

 

[hellified]

I think you know what I meant.

yeah your happy nothing happened and I'm disconcerted that he had an impulse to bash in the skull of some random black guy for a crime he didn't commit.

 

[moviedoors]

yeah your happy nothing happened and I'm disconcerted that he had an impulse to bash in the skull of some random black guy for a crime he didn't commit.

I agree, it’s a very disconcerting story.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

This is a very dumb argument from a person who only listened to the sound bit and not actually what Neeson said.

Here is someone who did listen.

 

[Aximili86]

People still on the Neeson ****. That's what he gets for man-ing up & expressing regret for something stupid that went through his head once as a young man, I guess. No good deed left unpunished and all that jazz.

Also, man, this Virginia stuff. The A.G.'s a blackface moron too?! Who the hell's fourth in line?

Pretty funny that double-sourced NBC report about Fairfax's response to the sex allegation being "**** that b*tch", too. The hypocrisy abounds, good times. There's the accusation letter from Tyson:

But nah, benefit of the doubt for this guy I guess. Don't jump to conclusions, he's on the favored side of the political aisle. Whoo.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

It always amazing how many people who claim to be centrist are clearly on the right. Also have to love the right talking stuff about the Virginia situation, where Democrats are calling for Northam to resign, where as Steve King was re-elected as a known piece of **** racist, who Republicans have embraced for years.

 

[AResistor]

It always amazing how many people who claim to be centrist are clearly on the right. Also have to love the right talking stuff about the Virginia situation, where Democrats are calling for Northam to resign, where as Steve King was re-elected as a known piece of **** racist, who Republicans have embraced for years.

Exactly when Dem and the left see bigotry they latch on and latch on hard in calling for resignation or for people to be fired or to never work again.

When someone on the right gets discovered for bigotry they're elected to office, get their own show on Fox News, and become a "hero" of the alt reich.

This is a very dumb argument from a person who only listened to the sound bit and not actually what Neeson said.

Here is someone who did listen.

I've seen that interview before and I like what he has to say about how it's being framed by the media.