Do you agree it's time to reboot and why?

[unholyrevenger]

Who in their right mind thought some weird combo of the Death of Superman/The Dark Knight Rises was a good way to build a universe around anyway? That's the starting point?

No one because other than the art direction and "I believe you" BvS has nothing else in common with The Dark Knight Returns

 

[Lantern Venom]

I never argued that they need to reboot. I actually said that they should not reboot if you read my response to that question. I am just pointing out that the men who matter did not view BvS or MoS as financial successes. They were deemed to not have met expectations and ultimately that has led to JL turning in a loss for the studio.

Ah, I see. I really don't know if JL lost money because I'm reading conflicting reports. It didn't make much, if any at all, and it certainly didn't become the cultural game changer that WB wanted.

I’m not as bothered by what’s happened in the past because...well...those movies were made in the past. I was born in ‘95, so no amount of whining is gonna change what happened there.

Batman definitely killed in the Nolan movies though, which I don’t really like, but at least those instances were at least somewhat understandable and weren’t done with malicious intent.

As Milk Tray Guy pointed out, Batman has a long history of lethal force on film. I don't remember nearly the BvS-level outrage over him slaughtering the Red Triangle Circus Gang in Batman Returns, but that could have been due to the absence of social media back then. Regardless, I don't think his no-kill code (something he tries, but occasionally it happens) from the comics is something that is ever going to be a priority at WB.

 

[Boy Scout]

I pointed that out myself.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

Basically, Gal as Wonder Woman is the only thing that has left a good impression on the movie going public. That's what the reboot talk is really talking about, right? Is it worth it to ditch the Wonder Woman team to get another crack at starting everything from scratch?

I think it'd be foolish to ditch her and Paty. There's no promise a reboot of Wonder Woman would be met very well anyway. The recasted role would be compared and many would be annoyed Gal didn't get her proper movie run. The Wonder Woman movie, in terms of reception and earnings, the crew deserves a chance to move forward.

No matter how WB try to fix this there is no way in hell that they'll jettison Gal or Patty unless WB decide to stop making WW movies (which I don't see happening, or at least not for a long while). The only issue I can see arising is whether and for how long Gal and/or Patty want to stay.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

I don't remember nearly the BvS-level outrage over him slaughtering the Red Triangle Circus Gang in Batman Returns, but that could have been due to the absence of social media back then. Regardless, I don't think his no-kill code (something he tries, but occasionally it happens) from the comics is something that is ever going to be a priority at WB.

There definitely wasn't, although maybe as you say the absence of social media was part of the reason. Saying that, WB received over 50,000 letters complaining when Keaton was first cast as Batman - I've never heard they received sackfuls of letters complaining about the killing!

I've read that the no-kill code was introduced in the comics so that Batman could keep a rotating rogues gallery, something difficult to do if he'd killed them all off (obviously this was long before CoIE/Flashpoint-type reboots were even an idea). That's not really much of a problem in the films as each movie series/continuity only lasts so long before being replaced by another. The Burton/Schumacher movies killed off Joker, Penguin, Two-Face and Jason Woodrue over a total run of four films; the Nolan movies killed of Ra's, Two-Face, Bane, and Talia in three, and now we're into the DCEU which started from scratch again.

 

[MbJ]

Forbes weighed in.

But, fair or not, we’re still in a situation where (save for Wonder Woman) DC Films is in a position of being promising that future films will be better. Sure, Flashpoint can retcon certain plot points or offer up a replacement non-Ben Affleck Batman, but you can’t build a long-term brand on constant do-overs and proverbial IOUs.

Like Barry Allen in the third season of The Flash, at some point, Warner Bros. and related friends may have to make peace with the chaos they’ve created and work their way through the best they can with what they’ve made. Wonder Woman is on sturdy footing and I believe in James Wan’s ability to make a solid Aquaman movie. All hope is not lost. Constant do-overs inspire no confidence in the long-term picture and risk alienating those who were fans since the beginning. At some point, you can do what you can to make lemonade out of lemons, which in itself would be far more artistically interesting than merely doing glorified do-overs every time a new movie comes out.

I tend to agree. At this point, the main problem they now have is convincing people to see more movies in this franchise when every one but Wonder Woman (and Man of Steel, though that was more mixed) was critically panned. A reboot isn't gonna fix that. Even with Batman Begins, they waited 8 years until the stink of Batman and Robin had died down enough to try again.

 

[2kt09]

Forbes weighed in.

I tend to agree. At this point, the main problem they now have is convincing people to see more movies in this franchise when every one but Wonder Woman (and Man of Steel, though that was more mixed) was critically panned. A reboot isn't gonna fix that. Even with Batman Begins, they waited 8 years until the stink of Batman and Robin had died down enough to try again.

We're living in an accelerated genre market wherein 3-4 years between sequels and even longer with reboots is the exception.

 

[MbJ]

We're living in an accelerated genre market wherein 3-4 years between sequels and even longer with reboots is the exception.

Perhaps, but how many of those reboots are actually successful? The only one I can think of where the reboot happened so soon after the last installment was Homecoming, and that was because Spider-Man is already one of the most popular superheroes on the planet, and Marvel getting to have him finally team-up with other heroes and engage in crossovers was seen as a huge selling point.

What exactly can WB actually do with the heroes now that'd justify a reboot and win back an audience that doesn't require a cool off period?

 

[TheVileOne]

Soft reboot with Flashpoint?

 

[regnak]

Soft reboot with Flashpoint?

Only if we boot the current Flash for one I don't want folded, spindled and mutilated.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

Forbes weighed in.



I tend to agree. At this point, the main problem they now have is convincing people to see more movies in this franchise when every one but Wonder Woman (and Man of Steel, though that was more mixed) was critically panned. A reboot isn't gonna fix that. Even with Batman Begins, they waited 8 years until the stink of Batman and Robin had died down enough to try again.

True, Batman Begins had to do a faith restoration job. Box office was okay and word of mouth helped DVD/Blu-ray sales, then they got the big pay-off with The Dark Knight. As you say though, that was after eight years.

I agree with this too;

Constant do-overs inspire no confidence in the long-term picture and risk alienating those who were fans since the beginning. At some point, you can do what you can to make lemonade out of lemons, which in itself would be far more artistically interesting than merely doing glorified do-overs every time a new movie comes out.

 

[Fincher]

When I watch the Batman movies to come, I want to be able to pretend BvS and Justice League didn't happen and that it's not the same universe as those other JL characters. If I can do that, I don't care that much if it's technically the same continuity (although starting a Batman series this late in his career was not a good idea). If The Batman tries to build off of BvS/JL and fix the damage they made, they're gonna be an albatross around its neck.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

When I watch the Batman movies to come, I want to be able to pretend BvS and Justice League didn't happen and that it's not the same universe as those other JL characters. If I can do that, I don't care that much if it's technically the same continuity (although starting a Batman series this late in his career was not a good idea). If The Batman tries to build off of BvS/JL and fix the damage they made, they're gonna be an albatross around its neck.

Agreed. They'd be better off just not acknowledging them. Then people can view the subsequent movies in whichever way they want.

 

[Lantern Venom]

Soft reboot with Flashpoint?

I could see something like that happening, especially if there are a couple of recasts in the future. Showing Flash viewing different timelines in the speed force also opens up new avenues like a Kingdom Come adaptation.

Only if we boot the current Flash for one I don't want folded, spindled and mutilated.

I thought he was clearly the weakest match to his comic counterpart as well, but Miller isn't going anywhere.

 

[LoganGambit87]

just stay the course reboot doesn't fix anything it just makes it worse imo

x men films stayed the course and started making more money after origins and the last stand were panned

fast and the furious is now a billion dollar+ franchise after awful films like tokyo drift

 

[STARMAN]

Ignore the past. Don't waste time trying to fix it.

 

[Infinity9999x]

Ignore the past. Don't waste time trying to fix it.

This is essentially a nicer version of what Kylo tells Rey in TLJ. It made me giggle.

Anywho, I think we're forgetting a third in the middle option. "Reboot" by way of unacknowledgement. Before hard reboots became a thing, I would argue that the Bond series went through multiple reboots, and yes, I'm talking pre Casino Royale. The films would change drastically depending on the creative team, often hardly having anything in common with previous films outside the broad strokes. The same happened with Batman from B89-B&R. The audiences didn't need to be explained why the tones changed, or why new actors were playing the characters, they simply accepted it. (They may not have liked the end products, but they accepted the fluidity of the changes).

I think this is still a viable option. Give the films some breathing room, recast, and continue on with better stories. Don't reference the older movies, and the audience will go with it.

 

[Jochimus]

Anywho, I think we're forgetting a third in the middle option. "Reboot" by way of unacknowledgement. Before hard reboots became a thing, I would argue that the Bond series went through multiple reboots, and yes, I'm talking pre Casino Royale. The films would change drastically depending on the creative team, often hardly having anything in common with previous films outside the broad strokes. The same happened with Batman from B89-B&R. The audiences didn't need to be explained why the tones changed, or why new actors were playing the characters, they simply accepted it. (They may not have liked the end products, but they accepted the fluidity of the changes).

I think this is still a viable option. Give the films some breathing room, recast, and continue on with better stories. Don't reference the older movies, and the audience will go with it.

This is probably the most practical solution, I'd say. If it's a decent enough movie, audiences will forgive it having weak predecessors.

 

[Infinity9999x]

This is probably the most practical solution, I'd say. If it's a decent enough movie, audiences will forgive it having weak predecessors.

Yep. We often forget that the large majority of general movie goers don't pay attention to the concept of continuity the way we do. The MCU is slowly getting them to, but even then, it's nowhere near your average comic fan.

And that aside, any of our favorite books essentially reboot when a new creative team take over in comics themselves. Writers acknowledge and ignore what serves their purpose, and the films should do the same.

 

[Frodo]

Truthfully, I think the closet thing we'll get to reboots of the DCEU properties will be film's that don't acknowledge the Sndyer-era polarizing films like MOS, BvS, JL.

As long as Kevin Tsujihara is still head at WB, and many of the execs who were around during the Snyder era are still in charge and making decisions , they'll be less likely to want to make a radical change and will instead tinker around the edges of what they've already done.

Hence , the inability of the studio to truly walk away from Affleck, the insistence on doing Flashpoint, coming out with slates of films which aren't gonna get made, off the wall ideas, re-active policies, etc.

Ultimately, you don't get the Nolan TDK trilogy with the execs who were around producing the Burton/Schumacer films in the 90s. It ultimately took new leadership at WB to create a fertile ground for those films to blossom and to make a clean break from the past mistakes.

 

[FunkMiller]

Yep. We often forget that the large majority of general movie goers don't pay attention to the concept of continuity the way we do. The MCU is slowly getting them to, but even then, it's nowhere near your average comic fan.

And that aside, any of our favorite books essentially reboot when a new creative team take over in comics themselves. Writers acknowledge and ignore what serves their purpose, and the films should do the same.

Yep. Outside of hardcore fans, nobody gives two ****s.

They'll be rebooting this entire thing, they just won't say anything about a reboot.

You watch... Aquaman will have a totally different visual style and will look nothing like Justice League, other than the actor's faces. Shazam will have nothing to do with JL. WW2 will only have Gal and a very few other holdovers, but other than that, it'll be all new. The Batman will be completely standalone.

The DCEU as it stands is dead. No more story lines from it, no aesthetic designs, and as few actors as they can get away with.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

Yep. We often forget that the large majority of general movie goers don't pay attention to the concept of continuity the way we do.

Definitely.

Truthfully, I think the closet thing we'll get to reboots of the DCEU properties will be film's that don't acknowledge the Sndyer-era polarizing films like MOS, BvS, JL.

Ditto. It'll be left to the audiences if they want to connect them or not.

 

[MaceB]

We're left with no good options really. I'd say, keep Cavil and the Krypton designs, keep Gadot, keep Jason Momoa and the Aqua Man designs.... recast Luthor, recast Batman, retcon the Clark death scene and just have him back working at the Planet, like nothing happened.

Move on with new one on one stories and try to build up the brand slowly for another team outing... maybe 7-10 years down the road.

And whoever was involved in giving notes to Snyder and making casting, plot demands... should be reassigned immediately. If you don't like the source material. If you don't know the source material. If you think you are making a movie to sell toys. If your top goal is anything besides making the best possible movie you can, then leave now. I think WB is infested with Hollywood, art-by-numbers, do it by the formula hacks, and they ruined BvS and Justice League. If they stay, then any new outings are just going to be a repeat of the same.

 

[brandeezy89]

Lets look at history here...

- After Batman Returns we got Batman Forever & Batman & Robin

- After Tim Story's Fantastic 4 films we got the 2015 Version

- After Rami's SM Trilogy we got ASM 1 & 2 then SMHC

- After Reeves' Superman films we got Superman Returns

- The rebooted Friday The 13th & Nightmare On Elm Street films

- After Cameron's Terminator we got Terminator Salvation then Genisys

- After Punisher 89 we got Punisher & War Zone

Pretty sure i can go on and on but history shows that Hollywood sucks at reboots and doesn't get them right until the 3rd or 4th time. If WB rebooted odds aren't in it's favor quality wise.

 

[Micromind]

After X-Men: Dofp, soft reboot of X-Men (after the original trilogy cast left) hasn't worked very well.

People are not as interested to see James mcAvoy's prof. Xavier and Fassbender's Magneto and others. Luckily, they managed to introduce Deadpool, otherwise Fox Studios are struggling with X-Men property since soft reboot.

Again, by sheer stroke of Luck, X-men may get a reboot again as Disney has bought Fox Studios.