Doctor Who - Not a Hugging Type of Thread

[OriginalMiles]

What if River Song is Jeff's Grandmother?

I'm kidding, but yeah... they're cheap AF.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

That sounds pretty awesome.



Okay, cool.

[BLACKOUT]I'm not calling you Hitler, dude. Forget Hitler.

Two halves of the galaxy want to kill each other, peace is not possible. Can I kill one half, torturing them for information along the way, with no compassion for them because of they want to do what I am successfully doing, and still call myself a good guy? Don't they see themselves the same way, feel the same way? Why are they bad and I'm good? Why is the fact that they're "everyone and everything" not include us okay, but us not including them in "Eveyrone and everything" is? This is the entire point of the episode "You are a good Dalek." It's a philosophical question and it is valid. The motivations and methodologies are almost identical... The Doctor is just more effective.

I think you'd be a horrible Dalek, too optimistic. You think if all the computers turned off some Dalek's might be good, even though the Dalek who actually had a positive memory to draw on was still rejecting it until someone who had seen the cosmos to help fuel that feeling jacked into his brain. Of course, that didn't work out either, but if the Doctor hadn't been there, the Dalek wouldn't even have had someone to scream "No!" to when they tried to assert the value of that memory. It would simply have been overwhelmed by the vastly increased number of "evil" memories. And this is, again, the one Dalek who had a positive memory due to radiation poisoning.

Dr. Who would have to stop all the computers, give all the Dalek's an authentic positive memory and then plug them into a person who had no hatred for them to latch on to. If it wasn't for giving them an authentic positive memory, I'd say the Doctor could do it. As is, genocide is a pragmatic solution for a race that says 'It's either us or them.'

But being pragmatic doesn't make you a good person does it?
[/BLACKOUT]

Actually there's a very old saying that has a lot of validity to it: "The perfect is the enemy of the good".

Not to mention thinking ONLY in absolutes is never a good thing. Admitting there are gradations and levels of ethical actions is part of wisdom, I think. Your own example shows a glimmer of that kind of thinking. If there is indeed a limit to how much compromise an individual should put up with in terms of their own actions morals that sort of implies that those compromises are inherent to actions for the greater good, it's just important to keep an eye on your own compromises. Indeed, levels of, and quantity of compromises do make the difference in quantifying the question of a person's ethical make up.

Again, I feel that we know that in the end, the Doctor IS a good man, however given the situations he finds himself in, and the power at his disposal, his attempts at solving problems for the greater good are never going to be perfect.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

Steven Moffat has already said the Doctor is still a good man, stating anyone who wonders if they are a good enough man usually is a good man.

He's a good man because he tries doing the right thing, which is why the War Doctor said it was better to have failed trying to do the right thing than succeeding in doing the wrong.

 

[DrCosmic]

Actually there's a very old saying that has a lot of validity to it: "The perfect is the enemy of the good".

Not to mention thinking ONLY in absolutes is never a good thing. Admitting there are gradations and levels of ethical actions is part of wisdom, I think. Your own example shows a glimmer of that kind of thinking. If there is indeed a limit to how much compromise an individual should put up with in terms of their own actions morals that sort of implies that those compromises are inherent to actions for the greater good, it's just important to keep an eye on your own compromises. Indeed, levels of, and quantity of compromises do make the difference in quantifying the question of a person's ethical make up.

Again, I feel that we know that in the end, the Doctor IS a good man, however given the situations he finds himself in, and the power at his disposal, his attempts at solving problems for the greater good are never going to be perfect.

So, if I attempt to be good, then I am good, but simply imperfect? That makes sense, actually but the implications are really interesting. "I almost killed 1000 people, but I tried really hard and only killed 100. Where are my humanitarian awards?"

Is it a combination of intent and results? You also imply that it's relative which means... it's a little bit meaningless. Moffat says he's good, I say he's not, it's all a matter of perspective.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

But Moffat's is the only one that really matters (right now), that's why everything he has written was all linked to the name "The Doctor" and its meaning, you can definitely count on someone saying he is a good man in the finale. The Doctor should always try and do the right thing, and that's the whole point of The Day of the Doctor, "I suppose it's better having failed in doing the right thing than succeeding in doing the wrong."

 

[Deserana]

That's my issue with it being the series long arc though. It's certainly a cool concept to explore but dont make it the central question for a series in a show like DW. You cant answer it.

If you say he's good then you cant ever show Capaldi's Doctor being bad because it would undermine everything done in this series. You can't say he's bad because it's The Doctor and a family show.

Also it's clear as day he's gonna be good. It's not like we're all thinking "ooohhhhhh is he bad is he good?" You know he's gonna do the right thing ultimately.

It was done well in the Smith era. His dark side was something just touched upon rather than being being at the forefront.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

Smith literally had an episode with "Good Man" in the title, with people asking why he is called "The Doctor".

The Doctor, and what that means, has been something Moffat has been building up to since Girl in the Fireplace. The "of the Doctor" stories saw that culminated. This series examines whether it is still true.

 

[Gold Samurai]

Yes, or similar type. They are from the sister ship of Madam De Pompadour.

Brace yourself guys....

There's going to alot of references to beheadings in this post


First off

-The sister ship of Madam De Pompadour was the Marie Antoinette. Marie Antoinette was beheaded at the guillotine








This weeks episode will cut out two scenes featuring a beheading out of respect for two journalists killed in Iraq

www.radiotimes.com/news/2014-09-04/...t-of-respect-after-two-journalists-are-killed

A beheading sequence from the climax of this Saturday's episode of Doctor Who, Robot of Sherwood, has been edited out by the BBC as a mark of respect in the light of recent news events in Iraq and Syria.




The edit has been made to remove a decapitation in the climatic fight scene between Robin Hood and the Sheriff; something that could be deemed insensitive after two US journalists were killed by IS (Islamic State) militants in the past month.

I understand the reason behind the cutting of the scene but first the hair pulling controversy and now this?

 

[Lord Valumart]

I'll never understand how people could be offended by a tv drama filmed months ago features something that happened in real life a week ago. It's not like someone saw it in the news and thought "hang on, that's EXACTLY what this story needs!!" It's bloody TV...

 

[Steelsheen]

Brace yourself guys....

There's going to alot of references to beheadings in this post


First off

-The sister ship of Madam De Pompadour was the Marie Antoinette. Marie Antoinette was beheaded at the guillotine








This weeks episode will cut out two scenes featuring a beheading out of respect for two journalists killed in Iraq

www.radiotimes.com/news/2014-09-04/...t-of-respect-after-two-journalists-are-killed

A beheading sequence from the climax of this Saturday's episode of Doctor Who, Robot of Sherwood, has been edited out by the BBC as a mark of respect in the light of recent news events in Iraq and Syria.




The edit has been made to remove a decapitation in the climatic fight scene between Robin Hood and the Sheriff; something that could be deemed insensitive after two US journalists were killed by IS (Islamic State) militants in the past month.

I understand the reason behind the cutting of the scene but first the hair pulling controversy and now this?

i know this part of the ep.... wait are they only removing that part on the US broadcast? or even the UK broadcast? and if they are removing that part... then how the heck are they gonna explain how one scene flows into the next? the "beheading" part is kinda crucial because it makes a point about a certain character and overall the entire plot.

 

[Steelsheen]

also just finished the 4th ep "Listen" and all i can say.... hot damn Moffat. what is it about you and mind-effery huh???

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

Are you implying Listen might not be the single greatest episode since the series came back?

 

[Mr_336]

also just finished the 4th ep "Listen" and all i can say.... hot damn Moffat. what is it about you and mind-effery huh???

He tries to be Grant Morrison and it backfires

 

[regwec]

Please can we keep discussion of un-aired episodes in spoiler tags? Even if it gives nothing away, it invites speculation in quite an annoying way.

 

[Lunar_Wolf]

I just don't get the removal of the beheading scene. Its fiction that was written months prior to the journalists being executed. Showing the scene in Doctor Who is not going to change a thing and its certainly not going to offend anyone. And if individuals are offended then they need a serious talking to be honest.

If the BBC want to pay respect, then do it during the news or air something to commemorate the lives of the journalists.

 

[regwec]

Ironically, an elderly woman was beheaded in London since the decision was made.

 

[TheNextNolan22]

Please can we keep discussion of un-aired episodes in spoiler tags? Even if it gives nothing away, it invites speculation in quite an annoying way.

This.

 

[Mr_336]

I just don't get the removal of the beheading scene. Its fiction that was written months prior to the journalists being executed. Showing the scene in Doctor Who is not going to change a thing and its certainly not going to offend anyone. And if individuals are offended then they need a serious talking to be honest.

If the BBC want to pay respect, then do it during the news or air something to commemorate the lives of the journalists.

This! Do that, BBC not make one of your programmes suffer for the insanity of Iraqi insurgents.

For all the beadings that happened in the last decade not one show or movie had to delete their beheading scenes when the plot requires it and has 0 to do with what happens in the middle east

 

[Steelsheen]

fine putting these in spoilers

Spoiler

Are you implying Listen might not be the single greatest episode since the series came back?

Spoiler

He tries to be Grant Morrison and it backfires

Spoiler

i dont know about "greatest" since scripts are only one variable of filmmaking-- i still need to see the finished episode. it does have the potential to be a really good ep though, given how it plays into the Doctor's life, but then again it could also be a great exercise of nothing, of how two very different storylines would probably be better off treated separately.

im not sure if its a Morrison thing, didnt strike me as such. but its clearly a Moffat thing. hey im a big fan of twists and surprises but in this regard, if its not filmed and performed and edited properly it could get tangled up in its own complexity.

I just don't get the removal of the beheading scene. Its fiction that was written months prior to the journalists being executed. Showing the scene in Doctor Who is not going to change a thing and its certainly not going to offend anyone. And if individuals are offended then they need a serious talking to be honest.

If the BBC want to pay respect, then do it during the news or air something to commemorate the lives of the journalists.

exactly right

also this reminds me of when 9/11 happened and they had to pull the first Spiderman trailer which featured the Twin Towers on his visor-- and it was such an awesome trailer (the replacement trailer was different and paled in comparison)

it infuriates me that essentially Hollywood buckles down on the bullying tactics of terrorists. you wanna show respect for the affected friends and families? why not bankroll stories and commercials that shames and informs the viewers of their inhumanity? that would be far more effective than "self-censoring" out of "respect".

 

[RetroNaz]

If one of us had a family member who had just had their head decapitated by senseless terrorism, I don't imagine you people would be saying you'd be happy for them to retain the beheading scene - it just wouldn't be good timing, regardless of when it was filmed.

Admit it, the BBC would be under fire if they aired the scene given what's recently happened.

 

[Deserana]

fine putting these in spoilers

Spoiler

i dont know about "greatest" since scripts are only one variable of filmmaking-- i still need to see the finished episode. it does have the potential to be a really good ep though, given how it plays into the Doctor's life, but then again it could also be a great exercise of nothing, of how two very different storylines would probably be better off treated separately.

im not sure if its a Morrison thing, didnt strike me as such. but its clearly a Moffat thing. hey im a big fan of twists and surprises but in this regard, if its not filmed and performed and edited properly it could get tangled up in its own complexity.

.

Spoiler

I've never had an issue with complexity in DW but after watching it 2 weeks ago I still could not tell you what the F the ending of Listen was about. And I loved the episode till the ending.

Moffat is the anti-Nolan when it comes to ending a ******* story.

 

[Lord Valumart]

I remember Emmerdale, a UK soap, getting in trouble for having a plane crash on a small town after a similar disaster happend to a small UK town. But the Emmerdale plane crash was 5 years after the real event, and was even aired a few weeks after the aniversary of it. Thus making it all look like some kind of master plan.

I'll admit that that right there is something to get annoyed and upset about. This whole Doctor Who thing isn't.

 

[Steelsheen]

3rd ep is done.... and they did delete the "beheading" scene.

boo. Nottingham's line didnt make sense at all

 

[regwec]

Where was the beheading scene originally? I assumed that was the fate of the herald character (who was scene stealing anyway).

Good episode; the historical ones often seem comparatively weak, but that played to the strengths of the legendary.

 

[Steelsheen]

Where was the beheading scene originally? I assumed that was the fate of the herald character (who was scene stealing anyway).

the sparring between Robin and Nottingham was a bit longer, and at one point Robin manages to behead him, a success that was short lived seeing as the head kept talking, and the body promptly picks up the head and puts it back on its neck-- hence the line "The first of a new breed, half man, half engine". then Robin rises to the rafters with Nottingham doing the same, and they continue fighting above the furnace.