Doctor Who - Regeneration 9 - Part 8

[wiegeabo]

I thought it was an ok episode. Definitely rushed.

so-so writing with out of the park acting.

 

[The Question]

At the end of the day they both produce bad stories so the result is the same.

Again, I disagree. Being up your own ass about how great your hero is produces bad stories because it's inherently bad. I don't see what's inherently bad about being really sentimental. As corny as it is, at least the later comes from a good place and isn't completely ego driven like the former.

And the result isn't the same if one is significantly worse than the other.

To put it another way: I didn't like Jesus Doctor because it came from a very self absorbed and kind of cynical place. The memory leaf of souls came from a very genuine and decent place, so I like it. Sincerity makes up for corniness every time.

 

[haephestus]

I haven't enjoyed the last couple of episodes, but now that Clara has been introduced for the fourth time, I'm hopeful that Doctor Who will get on with telling exciting and interesting stories.

The upcoming submarine episode certainly looks like it has potential. And the potential of the "episode within the TARDIS" really interests me. Ongoing nonsense about Clara's "mystery" does not interest me. After River, Amy and now Clara, I think I miss the "ordinary" companions like Sarah Jane, Rose and especially Donna.

 

[Scarecrow_King]

Yeah, the leaf was pointless. They should've left it at the Doctor's memories.

 

[Gold Samurai]

Oh, it absolutely is. Much much MUCH better than Jesus Doctor. The worst thing about Jesus Doctor, to me, was how self indulgent it was. It was all about how ****ing cool The Doctor is and how he's basically the messiah. The magic leaf wasn't about The Doctor at all, it was about people. It was hella corny, sure, but it wasn't full of itself like Jesus Doctor was.

Jumping on that.

The return of MURRAY GOLD'S OBNOXIOUSLY LOUD MUSIC!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Xo8dbZavEXM#t=304s


Seriously can anyone hear the doctor say "What more?" I couldn't until I turned up the speakers



These past two weeks have felt like a big tribute to Russell T Davies era.

We went back to Modern london and brought out the Jesus imagery of the Doctor

 

[The Question]

Yeah, the leaf was pointless. They should've left it at the Doctor's memories.

How was the leaf pointless? They used it specifically to make a point about the value of the human experience.

 

[Scarecrow_King]

Because it was used only for that point, even though the plot didn't need it. There was this grande dramatic speech and gesture by the Doctor, which seemed to have beaten the bad guy. Then Clara ran up with the leaf basically saying "look, I can help," even though The Doctor had pretty much already won by feeding Grandfather his memories.

 

[The Question]

Because it was used only for that point, even though the plot didn't need it. There was this grande dramatic speech and gesture by the Doctor, which seemed to have beaten the bad guy. Then Clara ran up with the leaf basically saying "look, I can help," even though The Doctor had pretty much already won by feeding Grandfather his memories.

But that was the whole point. The story had a theme and that was the culmination of the theme. The plot of a story doesn't need to require something for that thing to have a point in the story, that thing can also service the theme the story is trying to go for.

 

[Scarecrow_King]

I guess. It just felt unnatural to me the way it was put in after the Doctor's moment. It could've been incorporated into the Doctor's speech and it would've been way better.

 

[Upset Spideyfan]

These past two weeks have felt like a big tribute to Russell T Davies era.

We went back to Modern london and brought out the Jesus imagery of the Doctor

Yes exactly. I just feel like Moffat is getting to slide on a lot of crap because there is this RTD vs Moffat dialogue that occasionally creeps up and people don't want to ruin the narrative of Moffat saving us from one of the absolute low points of the series, late-era RTD but especially End of Time, with an absolutely phenomenal season 5.

And now I feel like we are at this point were people are saying "at least its not as bad as RTD" which at points is debatable but I want the show to be good because its good, not because it isn't quite as bad as it was at prior point.

But that was the whole point. The story had a theme and that was the culmination of the theme. The plot of a story doesn't need to require something for that thing to have a point in the story, that thing can also service the theme the story is trying to go for.

The way it was all executed was exceedingly clumsily and amounted to Clara saying "this is a special leaf" and the Doctor muttering nonsense about "infinite energy!" and the star god rolling over and dying. One of the, but not only, issues with that scene is that the episode hadn't earned it.

If one is looking for good sentimentality the ending of the Doctor's Wife is heart warming and touching.

Clara waving a emotion leaf and saying " here's my happy family leaf, go die now" to some abstract star monster is not the kind of sentimentality I think the show needs more of.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

The way it was all executed was exceedingly clumsily and amounted to Clara saying "this is a special leaf" and the Doctor muttering nonsense about "infinite energy!" and the star god rolling over and dying. One of the, but not only, issues with that scene is that the episode hadn't earned it.

If one is looking for good sentimentality the ending of the Doctor's Wife is heart warming and touching.

The way you're explaining it makes it sound like the preceding 30 minutes was fun and games then things just randomly got serious. I could do the same with the Doctor's Wife. If I just summed it up as the Doctor crying over a "dead(but not really)" version of the Tardis, it would sound ridiculously contrived. Instead of describing the entire episode as the Doctor working with his longest traveling companion.

Clara and the leaf was preceded by her own mother saying she'd always be there for her which echoed the Doctor's "we don't walk away." All of it was tied to her telling the girl she could sing the song(even though we all know it didn't mean anything to that giant parasite at that point). Clara didn't just leave the Doctor to save the day. She went to go and get him.

Clara waving a emotion leaf and saying " here's my happy family leaf, go die now" to some abstract star monster is not the kind of sentimentality I think the show needs more of.

To me the finale speech worked for the exact reason that the companion exist for. The Doctor has traveled so long that he doesn't see things sometimes. He was so wrong about the sacrifice/ritual from the start that in the end he thought anger and rage would get rid of it, but it was Clara's different perspective that did it. The Queen of Years being a child means a great deal of potential is wiped out when a child dies. The same as the leaf.

I understand you saying it didn't taste good, but all the ingredients were put in the recipe.

 

[Hawkingbird]

I liked the Granddaughter mention. I think with the 50th we'll be getting a lot of those.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

I just saw the new filming pics. If Moffat is trolling us with some kind of Doctor superfan wearing that item of clothing the woman is wearing then I am going to be pissed.

She better be someone important.

 

[The Squirrel]

And you don't link them? For shame.

 

[wobbly]

The Scarf?

 

[Gold Samurai]

Jemma Redgrave to return in the Anniversary Special as Kate Stewart, the Brigadier's daughter.



http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/doctorwh...-Redgrave-Returns-for-the-Anniversary-Special

Matt Smith doing an impressive stunt!


[YT]ZYGRYzK08Yg[/YT]




http://scottkandrews.com/


I love the papapparazzi "converstation"

Pap 1: Thing is, I f***ing hate Doctor Who. F***ing rubbish. Wouldn’t f***ing watch it if you f***ing paid me.
Pap 2: The bird’s nice looking though.
Pap1: Yeah. (Pointing at smiley guard) He’s a funny c*** inne.
Pap 2: Yeah, weird c***.
Pap 1: (Addressing smiley guard) Oi! You shouldn’t let this lot in here (indicates public). Should just be paps.
Smiley guard: (Smiling) Well, your photos aren’t gonna be worth nothing once this lot have put theirs up on Twitter. (Wanders off smiling).

 

[wobbly]

Jemma Redgrave to return in the Anniversary Special as Kate Stewart, the Brigadier's daughter.



http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/doctorwh...-Redgrave-Returns-for-the-Anniversary-Special

Matt Smith doing an impressive stunt!


[YT]ZYGRYzK08Yg[/YT]




http://scottkandrews.com/


I love the papapparazzi "converstation"

Haha...'Pap's' like that are ignorant arrogant scumbags and nothing more than Leeches. Great put down from that guard

 

[Gold Samurai]

I hope they can do better than "background actor wearing Tom Bakerish scarf walking by"

 

[wobbly]

I hope they can do better than "background actor wearing Tom Bakerish scarf walking by"

Looks like she's wearing a lab coat, so I figure she's gonna have some role to play with UNIT.

Maybe she's a UNIT technical type, and 4 gave her mother, perhaps the Brigadiers daughter (hidden behind Smith in this shot I think), one of his scarves or something like that.

Or she's just keeping it warm for Tom who is hiding somewhere...

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I hope they can do better than "background actor wearing Tom Bakerish scarf walking by"

All I see is Jenna.

 

[DACrowe]

Man, I thought this week's episode was great. The use of the leaf, the music and most of all just the very nicely built relationship between Clara and the Doctor that did not involve her dying was good stuff.

I come here and half the fanbase is saying it is as bad as The End of Time?!

Eh, I guess I am in the minority.

 

[Gold Samurai]

Strax reporting on filming at Trafalgar square

[YT]Za6A6vh1nEk[/YT]

"... a strange race, known as, the French..."

LOL

50th anniversary speculation

Well with Dan Starkey in Sontaran makeup doing web update videos, I think there's a possiblity of a Silurian and his wife not too far behind.....

 

[wobbly]

Man, I thought this week's episode was great. The use of the leaf, the music and most of all just the very nicely built relationship between Clara and the Doctor that did not involve her dying was good stuff.

I come here and half the fanbase is saying it is as bad as The End of Time?!

Eh, I guess I am in the minority.

I liked the episode too (liked the music and signing as well), so I'm with you.

Regarding the leaf, I think some missed the point they established about the trade in the market being through personal items, ie; something that has zero instinsic value could be priceless if it has the right personal attachment (and memories etc) to it.

That was what the leaf had for Clara: for her it represented not just her memory of her mother, but all the possible futures that could have been had her mother lived. The Doctors 1000 plus years of memories & secrets were a feast for the star god thingie to be sure, but they are fixed done moments, devoured once. The leaf was a stream of infinite possible futures had Clara's mother lived. That's what the Star God couldn't stomach.

I like the idea something so simple could take this thing down, when the Doctor's best shot did nothing more than bring a smile to it's face.

 

[Manic]

Looks like she's wearing a lab coat, so I figure she's gonna have some role to play with UNIT.

Maybe she's a UNIT technical type, and 4 gave her mother, perhaps the Brigadiers daughter (hidden behind Smith in this shot I think), one of his scarves or something like that.

Or she's just keeping it warm for Tom who is hiding somewhere...

or the Doctor left a scarf lying around UNIT headquarters, and their scientific staff have been passing it around over the years (possibly alongside a crushed velvet coat).

 

[DACrowe]

New episodes was solid, but it could have done with another 10 mins and a slight bit of rewriting. It felt like it went on autopilot once the ceremony began.


To ignore their difference is to ignore the entire point. Most if not all fiction involves romance. It is the quality and how it is used that set work a part.

Where as 10 was more romance novel, 11 is more well, not quite as eager for the more obvious physical side of things. Amy, River, and now Clara have all played innuendo game with him, and he just doesn't know how to react. It is as if it is all alien to him. This is the guy who would hit on a tree.

With Amy, he never saw her as anything other then a friend, or probably more accurately, a sister. Nor did she want a great romance with him. She wanted a shag and a way to runaway, and the Doctor wanted to know why a human was kissing him.

River and the Doctor are married, but then again the Doctor is married to many women at the same time. He is after all a time traveler, and we do know he has at least two wives. But marriage here isn't about sex or making babies. This doesn't end on the honeymoon night.. She is his partner in crime, his wife, just like Amy and Rory, yet it is almost too painful for her to be around him. They have crossed over to the point where every time he sees her, she is a bit older. A bit closer to death. In the Ponds finale they touch on what it means to be tied to the Doctor. The one who hates endings, and yet watches as all around him age until the inevitable arrives.

Now there is Clara, a girl who excites him in a way he doesn't quite understand. He is courting her without even realizing he is doing it. And he has done it three times with the same, but not quite the same, girl.


I like how Moffat mixes his takes on romance, without them all leading to what feels like the same inevitable point. RTD's first two companions took the same road. Both completely fell for 10 in the romance novel kinda way, which sadly played into the characterization of the Doctor at that point imo. Rose's farewell all three times, same really sappy stuff, that got very close to creepy.

I would actually say that the Doctor almost saw Amy as a daughter or at least a relative. He was with her since a childhood and essentially saw her grow up before his eyes. The girl who never had parents (who she remembered) and waited latched onto her Raggedy Man imaginary friend. The Doctor loved her like a surrogate daughter, even though he came off as very youthful and boyish in their friendship.

Interestingly, now that he is interested in Clara to some romantic degree, even if he is in denial about this, he acts much older like the previous doctors have done on the show.