The Amazing Spider-Man 2 Does this movie really deserve the hate it gets?

[W/ Great Power]

Do you think, in a film sense, ignore the comics for a second if possible, that the death was good from a film perspective? Did you believe Andrew's acting? The solemn funeral?

My girlfriend is a critic for one of my local newspapers. I always tell her she's blasting films for no reason.

However, at the end of TASM2, I could feel the wetness of her tears on my shoulder. Hell, I can't remember the last time I cried watching a film, but they were full of tears when Gwen died.

I figured it might be because I'm a diehard Spidey fan; but even my girlfriend, who I never agree with on movies, was crying. She usually doesn't easily tear up either.

 

[Human Torch]

There was no way they would end on the funeral,nor should they.Spider-Man is not meant to be a downer of a character.You'd be getting a worse backlash than the first ASM for being grim and dour.

It ended the right way,with Spidey getting inspired by the kid (who was originally inspired by him).The only problem I had with the last 20 minutes,is that it really should've been the middle point of a movie (either this one,or save it for 3),then you'd get the full impact of her death and the time lapse,without having it feel like he became Spidey again 5 minutes later.

 

[Spider-knight]

Spiderman has so much **** in his life with his friends and family dying all around him, almost getting killed by his villains including psychopaths, having so much stress with juggling his life, having his brain switched by his villain, cloned, having his aunt get a severe heart attack everytime, etc. why would spiderman end on a sad note?

 

[The Joker]

Web hand.

That is all.

That was comical. The super slow mo of Gwen's death made you see it coming a mile away. The beauty of Gwen's death in the comics was it was quick, brutal, and not drawn out. She fell, her neck snapped, Peter thought for a moment she was alive until the horrible realization hits him that's she's dead.

Worst of all it was her own fault. Peter tried his best to keep her away from here, he even webbed her to a car, but Gwen "This MY choice nobody else's" Stacy put herself in the firing line and died for it.

It didn't get the themes of the original right at all.

 

[OcStat]

And in the comics Gwen never knew Peter was Spider-Man correct? She was a clueless player stuck in between two super powered nut jobs on top of a bridge as far as she knew.

They have really mucked up the progression of Peter's relationships in both franchises, the changes made to Mary Jane in the original forced them to try different things with the new franchise and essentially rework all of Gwen's relationship with him.

I didn't mind the changes they made at first in part 1 but now I see how troublesome it will be going forward. He told this girlfriend he was Spider-Man, and she died. How will he bring himself to tell Mary Jane? Wouldn't he feel as if he is repeating the same mistake and being irresponsible?

 

[Spider-knight]

I like to see some struggle with peters relationship with MJ about his life as spiderman and what happened to Gwen without a will they won't they story that doesn't feel forced at all.

 

[OriginalMiles]

Guys... would you say this movie is worse than the USM show?

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

Guys... would you say this movie is worse than the USM show?

No. I can't even watch that. I could at least get through ASM2 without walking out.

 

[The Joker]

Guys... would you say this movie is worse than the USM show?

No, because even TASM 2 doesn't get this stupid:

 

[<(o_o)>]

Do you think Max's mother would have even missed him with the way she was written in the deleted scenes? Wonder what Oscorp told her about her son dying? Would have been a great scene if Max had shown back up at home at the end movie & scared the crap out of his evil mother.

Where did Electro's suit come from all of a sudden, did Ravencroft make it where they planned to use Electro for evil purposes or did He & Harry stop by the tailor on the way to Oscorp?

 

[OriginalMiles]

Do you think Max's mother would have even missed him with the way she was written in the deleted scenes? Wonder what Oscorp told her about her son dying? Would have been a great scene if Max had shown back up at home at the end movie & scared the crap out of his evil mother.

Where did Electro's suit come from all of a sudden, did Ravencroft make it where they planned to use Electro for evil purposes or did He & Harry stop by the tailor on the way to Oscorp?

came from Ravencroft.

 

[<(o_o)>]

came from Ravencroft.

Completely missed it the 4 times that I watched the movie thinking it was a guy in SWAT body armor.

 

[Nemeres]

That was comical.

I didn't hear anyone laughing. It's a desperate, intense moment and your hero is wearing a mask that hides all expression, I don't see harm in an extra bit of visual flair aimed at pushing a feeling forward. Worked fine.

The super slow mo of Gwen's death made you see it coming a mile away. The beauty of Gwen's death in the comics was it was quick, brutal, and not drawn out. She fell, her neck snapped, Peter thought for a moment she was alive until the horrible realization hits him that's she's dead.

Worst of all it was her own fault. Peter tried his best to keep her away from here, he even webbed her to a car, but Gwen "This MY choice nobody else's" Stacy put herself in the firing line and died for it.

It didn't get the themes of the original right at all.

The beauty of Gwen's death comes from wherever you choose to see it, not just the particular mechanics of the moment. Movies are allowed wiggle room for reinterpretation, no? It's true that the writers made a mess out of the themes behind it, but as an isolated moment it's super effective: the desperation to reach her, the sound work, the shock of seeing her hit the floor, Garfield's acting... seems unfair to dismiss one of the moments that actually hit home for people just because it differs from the original. I've watched the scene several times since I got the DVD and it actually frustrates me that it doesn't belong to a better movie. But I don't forget how audible the collective gasp was both times I saw it in the theater. It works for people.

 

[The Joker]

I didn't hear anyone laughing.

I did. All three times.

It's a desperate, intense moment and your hero is wearing a mask that hides all expression, I don't see harm in an extra bit of visual flair aimed at pushing a feeling forward. Worked fine.

It was a visual comical moment that was totally unnecessary to show Peter was desperate to reach her. That was blatantly obvious. The web didn't have to look like a friggin' hand to show that. It's a testament to how cheesy this movie was that even in the movie's most dramatic and serious moment they slip in the camp.

The beauty of Gwen's death comes from wherever you choose to see it, not just the particular mechanics of the moment. Movies are allowed wiggle room for reinterpretation, no? It's true that the writers made a mess out of the themes behind it, but as an isolated moment it's super effective: the desperation to reach her, the sound work, the shock of seeing her hit the floor, Garfield's acting... seems unfair to dismiss one of the moments that actually hit home for people just because it differs from the original. I've watched the scene several times since I got the DVD and it actually frustrates me that it doesn't belong to a better movie. But I don't forget how audible the collective gasp was both times I saw it in the theater. It works for people.

Movies can do what ever they want, that doesn't mean it's good, or a good adaption of something, in this case Gwen's death.

But that's the story of these movies. They loused up Captain Stacey's death. In the comics Peter was responsible for that by using an untested webbing formula against Doc Ock which resulted in Ock's tentacles going out of control and knocking a chimney off a roof crushing Captain Stacey. That was the epic tragedy of his death and the massive guilt Peter had to carry from that. It was like the flip side of Uncle Ben's death. This time Peter did act against the bad guy and a father figure still died. His dying words to Peter in the comics were to be good to Gwen and look after her. In TASM he was killed in the line of duty through no fault of Peter's, so there's no guilt there for Peter to feel towards his death, and he was telling Peter to stay away from Gwen as he was dying. A cold final moment between him and Peter. With Gwen's death they missed the whole point of it, and why it was so tragic for Peter beyond him just losing someone he loved. Peter is once again blameless here because Gwen was there against his wishes and hammered it home to the audience that she was there by her own choice.

So that's two iconic deaths from Spider-Man lore that the TASM movies ballsed up. Garfield's convincing crying over her dead body didn't make the whole scene a success for me.

 

[Spider-knight]

I did. All three times.



It was a visual comical moment that was totally unnecessary to show Peter was desperate to reach her. That was blatantly obvious. The web didn't have to look like a friggin' hand to show that. It's a testament to how cheesy this movie was that even in the movie's most dramatic and serious moment they slip in the camp.



Movies can do what ever they want, that doesn't mean it's good, or a good adaption of something, in this case Gwen's death.

But that's the story of these movies. They loused up Captain Stacey's death. In the comics Peter was responsible for that by using an untested webbing formula against Doc Ock which resulted in Ock's tentacles going out of control and knocking a chimney off a roof crushing Captain Stacey. That was the epic tragedy of his death and the massive guilt Peter had to carry from that. It was like the flip side of Uncle Ben's death. This time Peter did act against the bad guy and a father figure still died. His dying words to Peter in the comics were to be good to Gwen and look after her. In TASM he was killed in the line of duty through no fault of Peter's, so there's no guilt there for Peter to feel towards his death,

peter created the lizard and as a tesult of him teyung to fix his mistake the lizard knew whi he was snd tried to kill him while the incident attracted george and the cops. lizard released the lizard mutagen, peter tries to stop the lizard with george interfering andcwhile peter tried ti fo his duty george got killed by the lizard. So it was still its fault. I mean it wasnt nearly as compelling in the comics but it was well put together and it was still his fault

So that's two iconic deaths from Spider-Man lore that the TASM movies ballsed up. Garfield's convincing crying over her dead body didn't make the whole scene a success for me.

I he was talking about how the death was handled. But I do agree that how it was handled before she died was poorly handled

 

[The Joker]

peter created the lizard and as a tesult of him teyung to fix his mistake the lizard knew whi he was snd tried to kill him while the incident attracted george and the cops. lizard released the lizard mutagen, peter tries to stop the lizard with george interfering andcwhile peter tried ti fo his duty george got killed by the lizard. So it was still its fault. I mean it wasnt nearly as compelling in the comics but it was well put together and it was still his fault

That's not the same. For a start Connors knew he was The Lizard, and continued to do what he was doing anyway. Peter also tried to warn Captain Stacey that Connors was The Lizard and he didn't believe him. That's twice in this franchise that Peter tried to convince a Stacey of imminent danger, and they ignore his warnings.

It's not even comparable to the comic book situation.

I he was talking about how the death was handled. But I do agree that how it was handled before she died was poorly handled

Yeah I get what he was talking about.

 

[Andrew Lucas]

That was comical. The super slow mo of Gwen's death made you see it coming a mile away. The beauty of Gwen's death in the comics was it was quick, brutal, and not drawn out. She fell, her neck snapped, Peter thought for a moment she was alive until the horrible realization hits him that's she's dead.

Worst of all it was her own fault. Peter tried his best to keep her away from here, he even webbed her to a car, but Gwen "This MY choice nobody else's" Stacy put herself in the firing line and died for it.

It didn't get the themes of the original right at all.

In other it's something unexpected, in the movie it was for most people that haven't read the comics at least my gf and mother expected Spider-Man to get her and BAM Happy ending but unfortunately it didn't happened that way.


What you are asking it's almost impossible since we all knew Gwen's death from the comics and after TASM we would always be expecting her death,of course the movie was throwing that on our face and I do agree with that complaint but saying that everyone was expecting it isn't entirely true.

I remember hearing a kid asking her parents if she was really dead when Peter was holding her,of course it's a kid and things aren't easy to interpret for them but unlike(Just a normal comparison) with Norman death on SM1 he had hope Gwen would breath again.

 

[The Joker]

In other it's something unexpected, in the movie it was for most people that haven't read the comics at least my gf and mother expected Spider-Man to get her and BAM Happy ending but unfortunately it didn't happened that way.


What you are asking it's almost impossible since we all knew Gwen's death from the comics and after TASM we would always be expecting her death,of course the movie was throwing that on our face and I do agree with that complaint but saying that everyone was expecting it isn't entirely true.

I remember hearing a kid asking her parents if she was really dead when Peter was holding her,of course it's a kid and things aren't easy to interpret for them but unlike(Just a normal comparison) with Norman death on SM1 he had hope Gwen would breath again.

Asking for a quick brutal death, instead of a slow mo dragged out one, where Peter has reason to feel guilty for her death is almost impossible to ask for? Please explain why.

It's got nothing to do with expecting her death. It's about the execution of her death scene itself. Not whether you expect it to happen or not. Besides even people who didn't know anything about Gwen dying in the comic books should have expected her death if they've seen the trailers. They blatantly gave it away in that.

 

[Andrew Lucas]

You didn't thought that was brutal? How more brutal it can gets?

The slow mo was something like a goodbye and after that it was quickly and brutal,he can feel guilty about not letting Gwen go to England on her own since that would probably had saved her life if he didn't pursued her.They could talk again after Peter dealed with Harry.

Maybe,it's a two side coin,I thought that since they were showing too much to make our mind that she would die just that on the end she would live suprising most of us,but of course you know where that comes from.

 

[UltimateWebhead]

Even after seeing a couple of the trailers, my wife had no idea of Gwen's fate. She was on the edge of her seat in that moment and was in shock during the aftermath (Garfield crying over her). I know of several others in my family and some friends who also were unaware of Gwen's death nor saw it coming and it made an impact on them all. I know not everyone has the same experience with this but in my corner of the world, the scene was done really well. People were genuinely upset about it and they were completely pulled into the moment.

Oh and Joker, it's spelled Stacy. Sorry...I don't mean to be anal about that but misspellings bother me for some reason. Especially for characters.

 

[The Joker]

You didn't thought that was brutal? How more brutal it can gets?

I said quick brutal, not the slow motion you can see it coming long before it happens. Imagine Uncle Ben being shot in slow motion like that. The best most effective deaths are the ones that are cut throat quick. They didn't waste panels and panels in ASM #121 showing Gwen falling and Spidey's webbing going after her. It was quick and effective.

The slow mo was something like a goodbye and after that it was quickly and brutal,he can feel guilty about not letting Gwen go to England on her own since that would probably had saved her life if he didn't pursued her.They could talk again after Peter dealed with Harry.

The slow mo was something like a goodbye? What are you talking about? The slow mo was dragging out the moment of her fall. Not a goodbye. It was trying to milk the tension of the scene by prolonging it as long as possible.

He has NO reason to feel guilty from stopping her going to England. That's not what killed her. It was her stubborn and foolish decision to go in the face of danger when he verbally and physically tried to stop her.

She said herself it was her choice and nobody else's, meaning she is the only one to blame for being there.

 

[A Necessary Evil]

Gwen's death would have been much more effective if it wasn't for the :

A) All the marketing material that literally pointed over to her death
B) Constant "hey Gwen will die" bashing over the head
C) Web....hand
D) Slo Mo


Seriously. Wanna make the death of a character feel like a punch in the nuts? Do what Nolan did. Quick, and precise.

 

[Andrew Lucas]

Yeah but not everything that comes from the comics should had been portrayed as well.

Doing that instantly death would be so messed up,like with TDK Rachel's death,it was so quick that I didn't even had the time to care about it and when it's about such important character to the franchise Gwen's death was pretty much well handled and is hard to picture someone that doesn't give a damn about it besides Levi.

I meant that the Slow mo was their goodbye since after that her death was straight on,that's why quick snap whatever people call would be messed up,I would had completely hated,it just brought even more desperation,it was quick and effective,didn't needed the head hitting the floor though.

The fault is shared between them both,Peter for not letting her go which would had saved her and Gwen from like you said being stubborn, it's 50/50 and on the context of their relationship on the franchise it worked well.

And it was her choice,the choice that helped defeat Electro but resulted on her death,she knew the risks.

It's even a odd topic to discuss since it's what most people praised.

 

[Andrew Lucas]

Gwen's death would have been much more effective if it wasn't for the :

A) All the marketing material that literally pointed over to her death
B) Constant "hey Gwen will die" bashing over the head
C) Web....hand
D) Slo Mo


Seriously. Wanna make the death of a character feel like a punch in the nuts? Do what Nolan did. Quick, and precise.

You had to.....

Gwen's death was wayyyy handled better than Rachel's,just do some surveying.

 

[Nemeres]

I did. All three times.



It was a visual comical moment that was totally unnecessary to show Peter was desperate to reach her. That was blatantly obvious. The web didn't have to look like a friggin' hand to show that. It's a testament to how cheesy this movie was that even in the movie's most dramatic and serious moment they slip in the camp.



Movies can do what ever they want, that doesn't mean it's good, or a good adaption of something, in this case Gwen's death.

But that's the story of these movies. They loused up Captain Stacey's death. In the comics Peter was responsible for that by using an untested webbing formula against Doc Ock which resulted in Ock's tentacles going out of control and knocking a chimney off a roof crushing Captain Stacey. That was the epic tragedy of his death and the massive guilt Peter had to carry from that. It was like the flip side of Uncle Ben's death. This time Peter did act against the bad guy and a father figure still died. His dying words to Peter in the comics were to be good to Gwen and look after her. In TASM he was killed in the line of duty through no fault of Peter's, so there's no guilt there for Peter to feel towards his death, and he was telling Peter to stay away from Gwen as he was dying. A cold final moment between him and Peter. With Gwen's death they missed the whole point of it, and why it was so tragic for Peter beyond him just losing someone he loved. Peter is once again blameless here because Gwen was there against his wishes and hammered it home to the audience that she was there by her own choice.

So that's two iconic deaths from Spider-Man lore that the TASM movies ballsed up. Garfield's convincing crying over her dead body didn't make the whole scene a success for me.

Fair enough. I just wonder if you and those with similar opinions would be as dismissive of certain elements if the movie around them was better. I guess I'll keep wondering.