Dr. Lecter Invites you to Dinner. The ''Hannibal'' Thread - Part 4

[Matt]

Oh, it's definitely called for. I'm also glad that that's apparently the only part of my post you felt like addressing.

And the characterization in the books/films does not equate to the characterization on the show. It's a separate adaptation. Are you seriously not able to get past that?

Then again, maybe you aren't considering that you think that Silence of the Lambs should never be adapted again and said you were glad this got cancelled so that it wouldn't.

When I clicked reply, that was the only part that was there. At any rate, chill with the hostility. Last warning or you will be banned from the thread all together.

 

[Matt]

I'd say Hannibal's sexuality has been ambiguous at best.

But there has never been anything to indicate a romantic connection between the two until arguably the season 2 finale, but more realistically the beginning of this season. To shift the nature of their relationship so drastically, so late in the game, feels unnatural. Especially, since it is because, IMO anyway, Fueller shoe horned Will into a story that he is not meant for (Hannibal) and is based largely around the romantic relationship with another character (Clarice). As a result, we are getting undertones and themes that do not really fit these two characters and their relationship with one another.

 

[Eddie Dean]

If you weren't getting super-gay vibes between Hannibal and Will during season 2, I don't know what show you where watching. Hannibal draws the two of them as Achilles and Patroclus for gosh's sake.

 

[slimshady247]

When I clicked reply, that was the only part that was there. At any rate, chill with the hostility. Last warning or you will be banned from the thread all together.

Ok. But you still didn't address any of that.

 

[Jesse]

Episode 8 "The Great Red Dragon" Excellent opening introducing Francis Dolarhyde. Richard Armitage gives a great performance without even saying a word completely sells it solely using mannerisms and body language. Of course they included all the right images, the William Blake painting, the false teeth and broken mirror, even the blood soaked moon ritual. The film wrapping around his face and his head becoming the movie projector was a really cool visual. Interesting how we see from Hannibal's perspective and he doesn't think of himself as being locked up. I really liked how they showed Will going through the house and reliving the Tooth Fairy massacre. Glad to see Scott Thompson return. I'm really excited about the rest of this story arc but sad the show is winding down.

 

[antsman41]

Hannibal not only turned himself in for a sly stab at Will's psyche, but also because he legitimately thought he had been beat and outwitted. You could see how defeated he was when talking to Bedilia... even before getting his ass kicked by Jack.

 

[Man in the Suit]

https://***********/MrAaronAbrams/status/625129375411732480

 

[Sawyer]

If you don't like Team Sassy Science, you're just a bad person.

 

[Roose Bolton]

I prefer Mason Verger's sense of humor to theirs.

 

[Sawyer]

https://***********/BryanFuller/status/625171641459302401

Bryan Fuller
‏@BryanFuller
#HANNIBAL’s CELL INSPIRED BY STANLEY KUBRICK #BeholdTheRedDragon

 

[antsman41]

If you don't like Team Sassy Science, you're just a bad person.

Yeah, they're awesome.

 

[hellblazer103]

If you don't like Team Sassy Science, you're just a bad person.

back in season 1, i couldn't stand em.

come season 3, " I MISS THEM SOOO MUCH COME BACK PLZ "

I prefer Mason Verger's sense of humor to theirs.

"oh, cordell... if i had lips, i'd smile "

 

[Roose Bolton]

But there has never been anything to indicate a romantic connection between the two until arguably the season 2 finale, but more realistically the beginning of this season. To shift the nature of their relationship so drastically, so late in the game, feels unnatural. Especially, since it is because, IMO anyway, Fueller shoe horned Will into a story that he is not meant for (Hannibal) and is based largely around the romantic relationship with another character (Clarice). As a result, we are getting undertones and themes that do not really fit these two characters and their relationship with one another.

You do bring up an interesting point. Silence of the Lambs is largely the story of Clarice and Hannibal, they go on an emotional journey together and if it was utilized in this show there would be the potential that the spirit of that novel and the relationship between those two characters would be lost in favor of the Hannibal/Will relationship. Granted, I think if Fuller devoted himself to really bringing that novel to life he could do something that is worthy enough to stand beside the film, there is the chance that he just wouldn't be interested in portraying Hannibal having a romantic relationship with Clarice, which would be a disservice to the characters and novel.

But in saying that, I do have a reasonable amount of faith that Fuller would honor the novel.

"oh, cordell... if i had lips, i'd smile "

He was so much fun! We've been lucky enough to have three great portrayals of the character.

 

[James]

If you don't like Team Sassy Science, you're just a bad person.

A bad person with good taste.

 

[Tron Bonne]

I think the real disconnect with Matt is, as we've talked about before, he prefers a dogmatic approach to adaptations. It was like this in the book, so therefore it must be like this, or extremely close to this, in whatever adaptation being discussed. I think it's pretty obvious this show is not like that. From the very beginning, it's already drastically altered the relationship between Will and Hannibal, as well as altered how certain characters met, or even their gender. I think at this point, one needs to realize this isn't a dogmatic approach to adapting Harris's work, and his a new take and interpretation of the material.

 

[slimshady247]

I think the real disconnect with Matt is, as we've talked about before, he prefers a dogmatic approach to adaptations. It was like this in the book, so therefore it must be like this, or extremely close to this, in whatever adaptation being discussed. I think it's pretty obvious this show is not like that. From the very beginning, it's already drastically altered the relationship between Will and Hannibal, as well as altered how certain characters met, or even their gender. I think at this point, one needs to realize this isn't a dogmatic approach to adapting Harris's work, and his a new take and interpretation of the material.

 

[Man in the Suit]

We've seen Red Dragon done twice, and it's like I'm watching it for the first time. I'm in awe of this show every week.

 

[Sawyer]

I'm really curious about the Alana/beer thing. All the recipes on the show have at least been within the realm of possibility and they've had culinary consultants to make it work, so I wonder what it is Hannibal would've even put in the beer. Blood, maybe?

 

[Smilodon]

Hannibal probably fermented someone to make beer. Or a body part of someone to make it tastier or something. Dunno how that would works since I know nothing of beer brewing but yeah.

Great episode. Almost like a new season even through we're only halfway through this season. I wholly prefer Red Dragon to Silence of the Lambs, so I'm really stoked to see Fuller's take on this.

Armitage was great in his first appearance as Dolarhyde, and the way he comes off as so troubled, tiptoeing between brutish and scared was great, and augmented by his handsome looks that only he views as ugly.

It's good to get back to more straightforward storytelling in this, and I really like the shot of the moon with blood, Armitage all bloodied up and Will using his powers again!

 

[Broseph44]

I don't see how Hannibal turning himself in goes against his character at all. It denies both Will and Jack any victory. Will in letting go of Hannibal and Jack in catching him.

Hannibal not only turned himself in for a sly stab at Will's psyche, but also because he legitimately thought he had been beat and outwitted. You could see how defeated he was when talking to Bedilia... even before getting his ass kicked by Jack.

Well said

I think the real disconnect with Matt is, as we've talked about before, he prefers a dogmatic approach to adaptations. It was like this in the book, so therefore it must be like this, or extremely close to this, in whatever adaptation being discussed. I think it's pretty obvious this show is not like that. From the very beginning, it's already drastically altered the relationship between Will and Hannibal, as well as altered how certain characters met, or even their gender. I think at this point, one needs to realize this isn't a dogmatic approach to adapting Harris's work, and his a new take and interpretation of the material.

Again well said, exactly.

This weeks episode was incredible. Great start to the red dragon arc. Excited to see their take on it as I'm a big fan of the film.

 

[Matt]

I think the real disconnect with Matt is, as we've talked about before, he prefers a dogmatic approach to adaptations. It was like this in the book, so therefore it must be like this, or extremely close to this, in whatever adaptation being discussed. I think it's pretty obvious this show is not like that. From the very beginning, it's already drastically altered the relationship between Will and Hannibal, as well as altered how certain characters met, or even their gender. I think at this point, one needs to realize this isn't a dogmatic approach to adapting Harris's work, and his a new take and interpretation of the material.

Or, and try to stick with me here, I just dislike certain decisions that the writes have made! GAAAAAAASSSSPPPP! I would dislike these decisions even if there were no source material upon which the show is based. I find a lot of the creative decisions to be unwise. Not because this show is based upon a book, but because it leads to plot holes, inconsistencies, and mischaracterization (of characters established within the show's continuity). I know, shocking that someone can have this opinion without there being a deep, Freudian explanation for how anyone could take issue with the show.

And here is another shocker, that so many of you fail to comprehend. Just because I do not think that the show is absolutely perfect, does not mean I do not enjoy it. One can see flaws in something and still appreciate it. For example: This show is pretentious to a fault, often wastes time on superfluous visuals that serve absolutely no purpose other than to fill minutes (or up the pretension factor), and at times Fueller's head is so far up his own ass with the above mentioned things, that the show comes off as a poor parody of an art house show rather than a serious drama.

I hold this opinion. Yet somehow I still like the show. Again, one can see flaws in something and still appreciate it. This is not a zero sum game.

But feel free to psycho-analyze some more. Clearly someone having problem with a television program is hindering all of your enjoyment and must be explained away...otherwise how could you keep watching? (although I suppose you can't anyway in a few weeks...buuuuuuurrrrrrnnnnn ).

 

[Tron Bonne]

Or, and try to stick with me here, I just dislike certain decisions that the writes have made! GAAAAAAASSSSPPPP! I would dislike these decisions even if there were no source material upon which the show is based. I find a lot of the creative decisions to be unwise. Not because this show is based upon a book, but because it leads to plot holes, inconsistencies, and mischaracterization (of characters established within the show's continuity). I know, shocking that someone can have this opinion without there being a deep, Freudian explanation for how anyone could take issue with the show.

You may say this, but your previous postings (including the ones of the most recent discussion) really seem to stem from changes in the source material. It definitely seems to be the biggest part of your problems with the show, even if not the only problem (which, if you notice, I never said was your only problem with the show).

And here is another shocker, that so many of you fail to comprehend. Just because I do not think that the show is absolutely perfect, does not mean I do not enjoy it. One can see flaws in something and still appreciate it. For example: This show is pretentious to a fault, often wastes time on superfluous visuals that serve absolutely no purpose other than to fill minutes (or up the pretension factor), and at times Fueller's head is so far up his own ass with the above mentioned things, that the show comes off as a poor parody of an art house show rather than a serious drama.

I hold this opinion. Yet somehow I still like the show. Again, one can see flaws in something and still appreciate it. This is not a zero sum game.

But feel free to psycho-analyze some more. Clearly someone having problem with a television program is hindering all of your enjoyment and must be explained away...otherwise how could you keep watching? (although I suppose you can't anyway in a few weeks...buuuuuuurrrrrrnnnnn ).

Did I say anything about how you necessarily hated the show, or disliked it all? No, I didn't. I just commented on how your biggest problems with the show (again, not all, but definitely a good deal of them) based on recent criticisms as well as previous discussions seem to stem with that (to the point where you were openly glad one part of the story wouldn't be adapted since it would have to altered from the source in Silence), and I was pointing out that one should already see that Fuller's Hannibal is not trying to be the dogmatic adaptation from the very beginning of the show.

Not sure why you feel the need for this overly condescending tone, either, to be frank. You've done this a few times now, and I don't think you realize just how bad it's making you and your arguments look.

 

[slimshady247]

Wow, I get in trouble for being snarky, and you get to post something that condescending and nothing happens?

 

[Maximus One]

Matt just has this thing for the Clarice character. I remember last year I made an offhanded comment in jest about Clarice being a useless character and let's just say he didn't take it too well.

 

[Broseph44]

Best be careful what you say guys. Since he's a mod he will most definitely use that to warn or give you infractions or ban you simply because he doesn't like what you're all saying or agree with you.

Seems like he tends to use that Mod status a lot when the conversation turns into a debate in which it seems he can be the only one who is right. It happened above with slimshady. Tron is right too about the condescending tone. But again it seems since he's a mod its "ok".