Dr. Lecter Invites you to Dinner. The ''Hannibal'' Thread - Part 4

[Matt]

You may say this, but your previous postings (including the ones of the most recent discussion) really seem to stem from changes in the source material. It definitely seems to be the biggest part of your problems with the show, even if not the only problem (which, if you notice, I never said was your only problem with the show).

Not really.

Did I say anything about how you necessarily hated the show, or disliked it all? No, I didn't. I just commented on how your biggest problems with the show (again, not all, but definitely a good deal of them) based on recent criticisms as well as previous discussions seem to stem with that (to the point where you were openly glad one part of the story wouldn't be adapted since it would have to altered from the source in Silence), and I was pointing out that one should already see that Fuller's Hannibal is not trying to be the dogmatic adaptation from the very beginning of the show.

Not sure why you feel the need for this overly condescending tone, either, to be frank. You've done this a few times now, and I don't think you realize just how bad it's making you and your arguments look.

You try having other people tell you why you feel a certain way about something and see if you get a little short. The only one being condescending, is you.

That's a complete straw man and you know it. I never said people weren't allowed to have an opinion about it.

You either do not know what a straw man argument is or do not know what you yourself posted, but I don't know which.

 

[HighFivingMF]

Hannibals prison cell is nicer than my apartment. It's also bigger.

He worked much harder for it.

 

[slimshady247]

I said who cares about the cell because it's such an insignificant, little part of the episode. Schlosser said people are allowed to have opinions on the cell, which is not a refutation of what I said even if it may appear to be.

That's a straw man.

It's also a little depressing that you feel the need to constantly antagonize me and others because you're a mod and you happen to disagree with me. Trying to imply that I'm not intelligent and do not know what a straw man is is not really doing you any favors in terms of how you're being viewed in this thread.

You can't even admit that you're being condescending when you clearly are. "NO, YOU ARE!" I mean, seriously?

This is just sad and childish.

 

[Sawyer]

Please tell me some good news about this show.

Episodes 7 and 8 gave me a half-chub.

I mean, if that's the kind of good news you're looking for...

 

[Matt]

I said who cares about the cell because it's such an insignificant, little part of the episode. Schlosser said people are allowed to have opinions on the cell, which is not a refutation of what I said.

That's a straw man.

No, a straw man would be changing the discussion all together using a point more favorable:

You: Who cares about the cell?

Schlosser: This isn't about a cell, this is about freedom. If you defend the cell, you are saying people should not be free to have opinions, which is an attack on America. Why do you hate America?

That is an extreme hyperbolic straw man. A straw man is changing the course of a discussion all together, basically shifting to another argument.

Schlosser did not do that. You, on multiple occasions, have tried to invalidate the opinions of people who do not like the cell, saying that it is insignificant (which is probably closer to a straw man than Schlosser's point). Considering you are repeatedly attempting to invalidate that opinion (without addressing the merit of it at all), Schlosser pointing out that folks are entitled to it is not a straw man. It is responding to your point head on.

 

[HighFivingMF]

Episodes 7 and 8 gave me a half-chub.

I mean, if that's the kind of good news you're looking for...

Glad I can finally uncross my fingers.

 

[Perfect Cell]

Episodes 7 and 8 gave me a half-chub.

I mean, if that's the kind of good news you're looking for...

I feel like the entirety of Sawyer's existence could be described using Dennis Reynolds GIFs. I haven't figured out if that's a bad thing yet.

 

[Matt]

I feel like the entirety of Sawyer's existence could be described using Dennis Reynolds GIFs. I haven't figured out if that's a bad thing yet.

You know, now that you mention it, it is scary how similar the two are.

 

[Sawyer]

I feel like the entirety of Sawyer's existence could be described using Dennis Reynolds GIFs. I haven't figured out if that's a bad thing yet.

 

[Boom]

Episodes 7 and 8 gave me a half-chub.

I mean, if that's the kind of good news you're looking for...

I was looking more for news in regards to a potential renewal.

Before I throw a ***** fit.

 

[slimshady247]

No, a straw man would be changing the discussion all together using a point more favorable:

You: Who cares about the cell?

Schlosser: This isn't about a cell, this is about freedom. If you defend the cell, you are saying people should not be free to have opinions, which is an attack on America. Why do you hate America?

That is an extreme hyperbolic straw man. A straw man is changing the course of a discussion all together, basically shifting to another argument.

Schlosser did not do that. You, on multiple occasions, have tried to invalidate the opinions of people who do not like the cell, saying that it is insignificant (which is probably closer to a straw man than Schlosser's point). Considering you are repeatedly attempting to invalidate that opinion (without addressing the merit of it at all), Schlosser pointing out that folks are entitled to it is not a straw man. It is responding to your point head on.

You have a very narrow definition of a straw man. They do not always have to be hyperbolic.

Nor did I "repeatedly" attempt to invalidate that opinion. I said TWICE, in some way or another, that it's not really that significant. Then several other posters essentially agreed. I'm hardly being unreasonable or trying to invalidate anything. I'm stating my own opinion because I think that there are more interesting things to be discussed.

Anyways, this isn't English class, and I'm not interested in being antagonized by you any longer, so I'm just going to stop responding to you.

It's amusing that you can "get short" with others and not get in any trouble, but if any of us point out the fallacious nature of basically all of your arguments, we get an infraction or threatened with a ban.

Thanks for the lesson in forum etiquette.

 

[HighFivingMF]

I was looking more for news in regards to a potential renewal.

Before I throw a ***** fit.

Fuller wants to wait until the season is over so networks know what kind of show they'd be getting into.

 

[Matt]

I was looking more for news in regards to a potential renewal.

Before I throw a ***** fit.

Honestly dude, its probably not gonna come. That is to say, it is as likely as the Bengals finally parting ways with Marvin Lewis.

Sadly, releasing the actors from their contracts was probably the final nail in the coffin as it is the ultimate sign that the production company is not confident in any sort of pickup. They wouldn't put themselves in a vulnerable position of having to renegotiate if they believed there were even a chance.

 

[Sawyer]

I was looking more for news in regards to a potential renewal.

Before I throw a ***** fit.

Nothing yet.

Really hoping Hulu swings in at the last minute.

 

[slimshady247]

That'd be nice.

But we are indeed probably not going to be getting any news until after the finale anyways (if there's any news to be had).

 

[Matt]

You have a very narrow definition of a straw man. They do not always have to be hyperbolic.

Nor did I "repeatedly" attempt to invalidate that opinion. I said TWICE, in some way or another, that it's not really that significant. Then several other posters essentially agreed. I'm hardly being unreasonable or trying to invalidate anything. I'm stating my own opinion because I think that there are more interesting things to be discussed.

Anyways, this isn't English class, and I'm not interested in being antagonized by you any longer, so I'm just going to stop responding to you.

It's amusing that you can "get short" with others and not get in any trouble, but if any of us point out the fallacious nature of basically all of your arguments, we get an infraction or threatened with a ban.

Thanks for the lesson in forum etiquette.

1) I didn't infract you junior.

2) You were threatened with a banning from the thread for your behavior (which earned you an infraction).

3) Saying a concern of someone is "insignificant," is by its definition, marginalizing their opinion. Marginalize is a synonym of invalidate.

4) I wasn't saying straw men have to be hyperbolic. I was saying that my example was hyperbolic.

5) Don't get snippy with me because you do not know what a straw man is.

 

[slimshady247]

1) I'm aware, senior.

2) Your behavior is equally as inflammatory and deserves the same sort of punishment. I know that others would (and in fact do) agree.

3) Ok.

4) Constantly saying that when it isn't true is not going to suddenly make it true. You have a narrow definition. That's on you.

5) I wasn't aware you were a living thesaurus. And don't get me started on the inherent hypocrisy of YOU of all people talking about invalidating others' opinions. Please.

6) Yes, I know I said I'd stop responding to you, but your flaming is too tempting not to respond to. I suppose that's on me.

 

[slimshady247]

So no one else was impressed by the score?

 

[Matt]

Honestly, I'm too tired to continue with this and my ambien has kicked in. It doesn't help that you seem to have messed up the numbering, which makes it difficult to know what point you are addressing. So Reader's Digest version:

1) You were infracted for basically calling someone homophobic for disliking the characterization of Will/Hannibal's relationship. Show me where I did that and I shall gladly infract myself.

2) Just be more respectful of adverse opinions (which you are very hostile towards) and you will be fine.

3) I don't have a narrow definition of a straw man argument. There is no such thing as a narrow definition. It is either a straw man or it isn't. and you still don't seem to know what one is.

 

[Tron Bonne]

Not really.

Yeah, kind of really. Like I said, it's not all of your problems, clearly, but a good deal of criticism I've seen you lob at the series comes back to that, just like the recent comments about Will and Hannibal's presence in Fuller's version of Red Dragon that started this particular argument, and how it was Will and Dolarhyde's story and not Hannibal's, which calls very obviously to an argument about being faithful to the source material.

I'm honestly not even saying there's anything wrong with that. Wanting a very close, dogmatic adaptation to material is an opinion to have. My main point was that this show isn't that, and I think expecting that and harping on things continuously that call to that is pointless. You're still free to your opinion, obviously, but I think there's something to be said for stepping back and realizing some of what your saying doesn't apply to this show from it's inception.

You try having other people tell you why you feel a certain way about something and see if you get a little short. The only one being condescending, is you.

Your post was highly condensing with its tone, as well as the not so subtle implication that those replying to you were too stupid to follow your arguments. I wasn't telling you how you fell; I was commenting of your thoughts. You are free to give your opinion, as well as others are free to give their opinions on yours. I'll agree, slim was probably more snarky than he needed to be, but I have to say, you really have not handled yourself well in this argument either.

EDIT: I'm not really talking about the cell thing, by the way, more the stuff that preceded it. I mean, I think the cell thing is kind of a silly thing to latch on to, as well, but I will agree that there's nothing really wrong with those who seem to think it's a big deal.

 

[Maximus One]

I don't think the cell is that big of a deal however, it is a little jarring.

 

[Smilodon]

The score where Will and Hannibal met was great. The rare times Reitzell uses a more straightforward, cinematic approach to his scores make the scenes really standout. Reitzell most of the time scores such an animalistic, sensory kinda thing vs something melodic, so it just made this reunion much more heavy.

 

[Roose Bolton]

The score when Francis did his work out was good, really nice and dragon esque.

As for the cell, I do agree that Hannibal does have it a little too good. He was never outwitted or captured, he gave himself up for his own amusement. And when he does finally get imprisoned he lives in relatively lavish settings for someone who has murdered dozens of people and shown zero remorse. Hannibal hasn't suffered a real defeat yet, there's no real set back. But hey, maybe when he does finally kill Alana at season's end he'll fall under Chilton's hands and languish in the dungeon.

 

[Doctor Jones]

Fantastic episode. I'm feeling like I'm watching a Red Dragon adaptation for the first time. The thing I was impressed with the most was just how seamless the transition from the last episode to this episode feels. It doesn't feel like this jarring, "AND NOW WE'RE DOING RED DRAGON" where it feels forced. It feels like an natural next step of an episode yet it's still undeniably Red Dragon.

Indeed I have qualms with Hannibal's cell. I get being totally different, but for what it is , his cell is just too nice. I enjoyed Hannibal lamenting his lack of a view and the only thing he had was his drawings and spare books. Perhaps he'll be stripped down to a traditional cell by the season's end when Chilton takes over? If so, I don't mind that at all and it would be an interesting development.

 

[Schlosser85]

Perhaps he'll be stripped down to a traditional cell by the season's end when Chilton takes over?

I'd like that.