Dr. Lecter Invites you to Dinner. The ''Hannibal'' Thread - Part 4

[Broseph44]

Pretty sure there's four left.

Sweet thank you

 

[Roose Bolton]

As for Dolarhyde coming to Will's home, I always liked it. It is the first, subtle glimpse that Harris gives the reader of Lecter's ability to manipulate situations, even from behind bars.

Dolarhyde was such an insecure character and Lecter picked up on it instantly. His approval became paramount to Dolarhyde, more important than his "becoming," more important than Reba, more important than anything. It was the approval that he so desperately sought from his grandmother. And Lecter was able to pick up on it, play it, and changes his focus into the singular goal of killing Will (and finally extracting Lecter's revenge).

But doesn't Dolarhyde say in the novel that ultimately Hannibal doesn't understand him, and was slightly offended when Hannibal suggested that Will Graham was a threat?

I think Noonan has really ruined either Ralph Fiennes or Armitage as Dolarhyde for me. Too attractive! Be uglier!

Funnily enough, he's actually supposed to be very handsome as a character. He was disfigured as a child, which obviously fed into his problems and his self-loathing, but there's a scene in the books where his mother sees him for the first time in years and is shocked by good looking he is since having corrective surgery and working out. Plus all the female coworkers being appreciative of his physique.

 

[Schlosser85]

Dolarhyde is only ugly in his own mind.

 

[James]

Hey Moddy Matt, you know it's Bryan Fuller and not 'Fueller' right? You keep adding an E and it's totes weirding me out, you sassy beast.

 

[Doctor Jones]

I didn't care for the Abigail scenes. They were well done enough, but ultimately just unnecessary. We gained nothing new from them, no new insight on any character of importance. It just didn't feel necessary. It felt like a waste of time.

Same with the Alana scenes. They really aren't all that necessary. Hannibal is going to kill her. We get it. It is just laying it on so thick. Red Dragon is such an amazing story. We don't need filler with Abigail and Alana. I get that the writers want to incorporate the title character into the show, but I really feel like less is more for this arc.

I gotta agree with this. This is my biggest problem with this season. Alana should have died in the season two finale. She just is there. She felt like such a waste of space in the first part of this season. I just think that whole thing with Verger, Margot could have plotted herself. Those scenes with Mason and Alana felt so damn superfluous.

 

[Sawyer]

I gotta agree with this. This is my biggest problem with this season. Alana should have died in the season two finale. She just is there. She felt like such a waste of space in the first part of this season. I just think that whole thing with Verger, Margot could have plotted herself. Those scenes with Mason and Alana felt so damn superfluous.

Kind of a funny complaint coming from someone who has been defending this season of True Detective.

 

[Matt]

But doesn't Dolarhyde say in the novel that ultimately Hannibal doesn't understand him, and was slightly offended when Hannibal suggested that Will Graham was a threat?

Its been a few years since I've read it, but if I remember correctly, by that point, Lecter had already manipulated the two onto a collision course.

Hey Moddy Matt, you know it's Bryan Fuller and not 'Fueller' right? You keep adding an E and it's totes weirding me out, you sassy beast.

I gotta agree with this. This is my biggest problem with this season. Alana should have died in the season two finale. She just is there. She felt like such a waste of space in the first part of this season. I just think that whole thing with Verger, Margot could have plotted herself. Those scenes with Mason and Alana felt so damn superfluous.

I concur. She serves no purpose at this point, other than to give Lecter screen time and someone to play off of (because his role in the Red Dragon story is actually quite minimal). It in turn is making Lecter's scenes superfluous.

 

[Eddie Dean]

Those scenes with Mason and Alana felt so damn superfluous.

But then we lose the "spitters are quitters" line and we can't have that.

 

[Doctor Jones]

Kind of a funny complaint coming from someone who has been defending this season of True Detective.

I get your criticisms of True Detective and I'm fine with them, but like you with that, this season of Hannibal isn't doing it as much for me as the last. Alana Bloom just happens just to feel like a waste of space just standing there and talking all fanciful to Mason Verger in her Beetlejuice outfits. I mean they just stood around and agreed on things because they shared the same plan. I'm not learning anything new about Alana this season. Anything enough where she's justified to be kept around this long. Alana's place in the plot is something that could have gone to other characters. Everything she did could have went to Margot in the first half and everything she's doing now could have easily gone to Chilton. She just feels like a redundancy.

 

[Snow Queen]

I actually have been liking Alana more this season but maybe that's just me.

 

[Smilodon]

Fuller wanted to address complaints about Alana's reduced role as a love interest in S2 probably by making her a conspirator with Mason. I'm personally fine with the decision, but can see how others might view it was extraneous, especially considering the nature of the show which, like TD, is supremely focused on its leads.

 

[Doctor Jones]

Fuller wanted to address complaints about Alana's reduced role as a love interest in S2 probably by making her a conspirator with Mason. I'm personally fine with the decision, but can see how others might view it was extraneous, especially considering the nature of the show which, like TD, is supremely focused on its leads.

It's simple it's just the matter of taste. Though I do stand I find all the characters in True Detective worthwhile compared to Alana Bloom of Hannibal. Everyone else in this show is fine. It's vice versa with some people with how they see the two shows though. No point in comparing otherwise we'll be here all day with no end.

I quite liked Alana in the first two seasons (more so season two) and in season two she felt like an actual independent character. Alana felt more like just a love interest in season one. Then they just made her a lesbian this season. Or is she bi-sexual? Why the hell don't they ever explain these big character changes? As if they're pretending she's always been one of these two things? The lesbian thing was so out of nowhere if not to acknowledge Margot's lesbianism in the books. I forget is Margot said to be a lesbian in season two?

 

[Snow Queen]

It's simple it's just the matter of taste. Though I do stand I find all the characters in True Detective worthwhile compared to Alana Bloom of Hannibal. Everyone else in this show is fine. It's vice versa with some people with how they see the two shows though. No point in comparing otherwise we'll be here all day with no end.

I quite liked Alana in the first two seasons (more so season two) and in season two she felt like an actual independent character. Alana felt more like just a love interest in season one. Then they just made her a lesbian this season. Or is she bi-sexual? Why the hell don't they ever explain these big character changes? As if they're pretending she's always been one of these two things? The lesbian thing was so out of nowhere if not to acknowledge Margot's lesbianism in the books. I forget is Margot said to be a lesbian in season two?

I'm honestly not sure why it needed to be explained. We saw she liked Will, we see she likes Margot, she's bi. I'm not sure why it really comes out of nowhere, to be honest. Again, maybe it's just me. And I don't think they did, I seem to recall someone somewhere criticizing them for it.

 

[Sawyer]

I get your criticisms of True Detective and I'm fine with them, but like you with that, this season of Hannibal isn't doing it as much for me as the last. Alana Bloom just happens just to feel like a waste of space just standing there and talking all fanciful to Mason Verger in her Beetlejuice outfits. I mean they just stood around and agreed on things because they shared the same plan. I'm not learning anything new about Alana this season. Anything enough where she's justified to be kept around this long. Alana's place in the plot is something that could have gone to other characters. Everything she did could have went to Margot in the first half and everything she's doing now could have easily gone to Chilton. She just feels like a redundancy.

Eh. To each their own I guess.

 

[Broseph44]

I'm honestly not sure why it needed to be explained. We saw she liked Will, we see she likes Margot, she's bi. I'm not sure why it really comes out of nowhere, to be honest. Again, maybe it's just me. And I don't think they did, I seem to recall someone somewhere criticizing them for it.

No you're right it doesn't come out of no where. She liked them both, she's bi. That's it. Doesn't need to be explained at all. Agreed with you on all points.

 

[Doctor Jones]

I'm honestly not sure why it needed to be explained. We saw she liked Will, we see she likes Margot, she's bi. I'm not sure why it really comes out of nowhere, to be honest. Again, maybe it's just me. And I don't think they did, I seem to recall someone somewhere criticizing them for it.

But it seemed to be at the convenience of the plot. If she's bi-sexual, that's something that's inherently part of someone and should kind of be there from the beginning. It's NEVER mentioned or hinted at in the previous seasons. It just reminds me of a Willow situation. Not much foreshadowing to it at all until "Wait, she's having sex with a woman now!" It just came out of nowhere so just so she could team up with Margot. Now they're having a baby together as if this has been part of Alana the whole time. It comes off as mere improvisation.

It's just very inconsistent and they've only now settled on who Alana should be. But I think it's too late.

I still haven't seen a convincing bi-sexual character yet in television. Bi-sexuality doesn't seem like an actual part of someone yet in terms of character, rather it seems determined in writing by the confusion of how a character should fall on either side because lesbianism is easier to accept on a superficial mainstream level or is just more thought of as opposed to bi-sexuality. Again, it just seems like it's the writers not really figuring out of a character and improvising. Therefore, that inconsistency makes them come off as bi-sexual and gives writers that excuse when it was never really there to begin with. There's a disingenuous nature to that when all is said in done, even if it isn't meant to be.

You can't simply add on to things like that when it comes to sexuality as per the convenience of the plot and then claim them to be bi-sexual like they were the entire time. Unless they're growing up and it's them accepting it but when it's a grown adult like Alana Bloom, that's something there that needs to be set in place from the beginning.

 

[Doctor Jones]

Eh. To each their own I guess.

Exactly my perspective on your views on True Detective. Our views seem to mirror each other in both these shows. Hannibal for me, like you with True Detective started out very slow and not as interesting and those episodes before episode seven weren't the most exciting. For me, they were submerged in pretension at times and being overwrought (in fairness, both Fuller and Pizzolatto are self aware of any potential flaws). Where you might feel the characters in Hannibal are well developed and those "slower" episodes were all about the rich characters and their development, I felt the same exact way about True Detective this season. My point is, we pretty much agree on the same things but have different ways of getting there.

 

[slimshady247]

I guess I'll just stand alone in loving both then...?

 

[Doctor Jones]

I guess I'll just stand alone in loving both then...?

I still love both shows of course and this season in many ways, but as an isolated season it's just not quite there as season two which is odd because even if that was procedural format, that format helped balance Fuller's own storytelling instincts in something more strict and overall more well crafted storytelling. One could say the same exact thing for Pizzolatto for last season. I'm just trying to give some perspective here. I'm not criticizing one show to elevate the other.

 

[slimshady247]

I got you, it's cool.

 

[Broseph44]

But it seemed to be at the convenience of the plot. If she's bi-sexual, that's something that's inherently part of someone and should kind of be there from the beginning. It's NEVER mentioned or hinted at in the previous seasons. It just reminds me of a Willow situation. Not much foreshadowing to it at all until "Wait, she's having sex with a woman now!" It just came out of nowhere so just so she could team up with Margot. Now they're having a baby together as if this has been part of Alana the whole time. It comes off as mere improvisation.

It's just very inconsistent and they've only now settled on who Alana should be. But I think it's too late.

I still haven't seen a convincing bi-sexual character yet in television. Bi-sexuality doesn't seem like an actual part of someone yet in terms of character, rather it seems determined in writing by the confusion of how a character should fall on either side because lesbianism is easier to accept on a superficial mainstream level or is just more thought of as opposed to bi-sexuality. Again, it just seems like it's the writers not really figuring out of a character and improvising. Therefore, that inconsistency makes them come off as bi-sexual and gives writers that excuse when it was never really there to begin with. There's a disingenuous nature to that when all is said in done, even if it isn't meant to be.

You can't simply add on to things like that when it comes to sexuality as per the convenience of the plot and then claim them to be bi-sexual like they were the entire time. Unless they're growing up and it's them accepting it but when it's a grown adult like Alana Bloom, that's something there that needs to be set in place from the beginning.

No none of it NEEDS to be set in place. You just don't like the way it's playing out. I hate when people take their opinions and try to justify them by saying that something isn't being done right. Like it HAS to be done a certain way as if that's a fact, for it to work. Just because you don't like the way it is playing out doesn't mean they did something wrong by not setting it in place in the beginning.

 

[Matt]

No none of it NEEDS to be set in place. You just don't like the way it's playing out. I hate when people take their opinions and try to justify them by saying that something isn't being done right. Like it HAS to be done a certain way as if that's a fact, for it to work. Just because you don't like the way it is playing out doesn't mean they did something wrong by not setting it in place in the beginning.

Calm down, friend. You are way too hostile toward adverse opinions. I've already banned one person from this thread. I won't hesitate to ban another.

 

[Roose Bolton]

Seems to me, that they didn't really know what to do with Alana and they just incorporated various elements from Judy, Dr. Doemling, Clarice and for some odd reason, Chilton, into the character to pad her out. Her suddenly being into women didn't feel like a natural extension of the character, either and it was weirdly glossed over aside from the sudden sex scene. And now they're married (?) with a kid. It feels out of the blue and I kind of expected more from Fuller.

But as a fan of the Vergers, I can't say that I'm not intrigued about seeing more of Margot and spawn of Mason and seeing what's become of them post-Hannibal.

 

[Sawyer]

"Her suddenly being into women"? What, does she need to go around wearing a sign that says "Hi, I'm Alana and I'm bisexual"?

I agree the romantic relationship between the two seems odd, just because it feels to me like they would've gone their separate ways once Mason was dead and Hannibal was captured. But Alana being interested in women in addition to men? Nah.

 

[Roose Bolton]

I could buy that she was bisexual, if there was some set up for it, and when Fuller spilled the beans that it would be a thing I was all for it, because I assumed he'd put time in showing the attraction and beginnings of that relationship. If you're going to introduce a new dimension to a character then to me they should have devoted some time to that. But what we got was her suddenly in a sex scene with Margot. There was no... romance. And to assume that these two people love each other enough to make a long term commitment...It's jarring for me when the character as she appeared in seasons 1&2 was more defined by her relationships with Will and Hannibal.