Dr. Lecter Invites you to Dinner. The ''Hannibal'' Thread - Part 4

[Doctor Jones]

No none of it NEEDS to be set in place. You just don't like the way it's playing out. I hate when people take their opinions and try to justify them by saying that something isn't being done right. Like it HAS to be done a certain way as if that's a fact, for it to work. Just because you don't like the way it is playing out doesn't mean they did something wrong by not setting it in place in the beginning.

Which exactly is an opinion. Me saying what isn't being done right. I'm not stating it as fact, I'm just suggesting what could have been done to make such a drastic character change. I'm pointing out what I see as flawed writing. The viewer should never blame them self in that area. If there's an area that you're unhappy with, it's only natural to think of a better solution. We've done it with disappointing movies. An extreme example, but we've imagined a better Wolverine origin film, because the movie's bad execution allowed us to. Because the product and execution of it allows it. My views of the writing are different than yours. I would be coming off being factual if I tore down your opinion about it or anyone else's. I am not, just stating my own.

"Her suddenly being into women"? What, does she need to go around wearing a sign that says "Hi, I'm Alana and I'm bisexual"?

I agree the romantic relationship between the two seems odd, just because it feels to me like they would've gone their separate ways once Mason was dead and Hannibal was captured. But Alana being interested in women in addition to men? Nah.

The idea alone is fine and would make sense. But that's different than how it's being handled. I'm saying the execution is sloppy execution. It views as "her suddenly being into women" because that's exactly how it comes off as. The execution just made it seem like she suddenly became bi-sexual because there was no precedence for it in the previous seasons.

 

[Broseph44]

Really wish we got a preview for next episode.

 

[Roose Bolton]

Check DeLaurentiis Co on Twitter, they were going to upload one of their own at some point.

 

[Broseph44]

Check DeLaurentiis Co on Twitter, they were going to upload one of their own at some point.

Ahh ok gonna have to check then.

 

[Roose Bolton]

Here it is. Not the best quality, but something at least.

[YT]MV4mdJ2mUiI[/YT]

 

[Broseph44]

Thank you kind sir, awesome.

 

[Da-Scribe]

The idea alone is fine and would make sense. But that's different than how it's being handled. I'm saying the execution is sloppy execution. It views as "her suddenly being into women" because that's exactly how it comes off as. The execution just made it seem like she suddenly became bi-sexual because there was no precedence for it in the previous seasons.

I'm not trying to pull one over on you here and am honestly curious, but did you need any of the straight characters to establish their sexuality before seeing them with the opposite sex?

 

[Snow Queen]

Dancy's got a new show on Hulu now.

 

[Doctor Jones]

I'm not trying to pull one over on you here and am honestly curious, but did you need any of the straight characters to establish their sexuality before seeing them with the opposite sex?

That's not the point. My claim is not based on the character being bi-sexual. My claim is the consistency of the writing as a principle and in this case, pertains to a character all of a sudden being bi-sexual and how the writing of it is sloppy. Sexuality is not exclusive to what I'm talking about in general. If it were a straight character and the writing was inconsistent to the point it comes off as improvisational I would be saying the same thing.

But it also happens since bi-sexuality is more atypical across film and television its treatment isn't as well handled, therefore you get into my second criticism that compounds the first.

Alana just comes off as bi-sexual by forceful handling on the writers part. Bi-Sexuality is a thing that should be treated with the equally inherent quality as any heterosexual character. But in this case it is not. It feels smushed in for the sake of adding more to a character as if we now have to pretend she's been bi-sexual the entire time. It's sloppy and negates instead of helps a character under the illusion that just because there's something new means it's development when really it's tacked on.

 

[hellblazer103]

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[Tron Bonne]

That's not the point. My claim is not based on the character being bi-sexual. My claim is the consistency of the writing as a principle and in this case, pertains to a character all of a sudden being bi-sexual and how the writing of it is sloppy. Sexuality is not exclusive to what I'm talking about in general. If it were a straight character and the writing was inconsistent to the point it comes off as improvisational I would be saying the same thing.

But it also happens since bi-sexuality is more atypical across film and television its treatment isn't as well handled, therefore you get into my second criticism that compounds the first.

Alana just comes off as bi-sexual by forceful handling on the writers part. Bi-Sexuality is a thing that should be treated with the equally inherent quality as any heterosexual character. But in this case it is not. It feels smushed in for the sake of adding more to a character as if we now have to pretend she's been bi-sexual the entire time. It's sloppy and negates instead of helps a character under the illusion that just because there's something new means it's development when really it's tacked on.

I don't really understand why you feel we need to know everything about a character from the very beginning. Her bisexuality is something that was only recently introduced, so that's why it's highlighted now. Before this we only say her sort, kinda relationship with Will, and her very brief fling with Hannibal. I guess they could have had her drop some kind of line to confirm this, but without context, I'm not sure what point it would've served previously.

 

[Doctor Jones]

I don't really understand why you feel we need to know everything about a character from the very beginning. Her bisexuality is something that was only recently introduced, so that's why it's highlighted now. Before this we only say her sort, kinda relationship with Will, and her very brief fling with Hannibal. I guess they could have had her drop some kind of line to confirm this, but without context, I'm not sure what point it would've served previously.

Because the execution of the reveal made my desire for it. Looking back at her, it's all inconsistent. Indeed, I should have also said it could depend on the situation and character. Maybe not always (yet that's still execution dependent like anything) Again, the execution is the problem I have here. Her bi-sexuality if introduced earlier on could have helped define her character more and make her more interesting in the grand scheme of things when she wasn't the most interesting character to begin with. Now it feels too late. It comes off that way.

 

[Tron Bonne]

Indeed, I should have also said it could depend on the situation and character. Maybe not always (yet that's still execution dependent like anything) In this case with Alana the execution of the reveal of it just felt tacked on, hence my view. The execution is the problem I have here. Her bi-sexuality if introduced earlier on could have helped define her character more and make her more interesting in the grand scheme of things when she wasn't the most interesting character to begin with.

I guess I'm struggling to understand exactly why you feel this way. You're said a lot about how sexuality needs to be handled with respect, and yeah, I agree, but it's not clear to me exactly why you think it's being handled poorly here. I guess yeah, she could have mentioned her bisexuality in previous seasons to establish this, but without context and no reason to, I feel like it would've been more tacked on than this since it would've just been a token dropped without a well.

EDIT: Well, you edited in some I see after my response. If it's an issue of inconsistency...well, okay. I can't say I agree, but I at least have a better understanding of what you're trying to say.

 

[Doctor Jones]

I guess I'm struggling to understand exactly why you feel this way. You're said a lot about how sexuality needs to be handled with respect, and yeah, I agree, but it's not clear to me exactly why you think it's being handled poorly here. I guess yeah, she could have mentioned her bisexuality in previous seasons to establish this, but without context and no reason to, I feel like it would've been more tacked on than this since it would've just been a token dropped without a well.

EDIT: Well, you edited in some I see after my response. If it's an issue of inconsistency...well, okay. I can't say I agree, but I at least have a better understanding of what you're trying to say.

If it was there from the beginning and it was executed right when it would have become known, she would have not have felt like a token character anyway and it would have just been. Fuller's a great enough writer for that.

 

[hellblazer103]

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[green]

Eh, if I was Alana I'd go lesbian too after what Hannibal put her through.

 

[James]

Surprised to see no comments yet...but suddenly remembers the episodes don't air in the US until Saturday for some reason. Spoilers then, obviously, for our US brethren:

Armitage is fantastic, I know it's been said plenty already, but man that guy is doing wonders here. Didn't seem like there was much Hannibal this episode? Plenty of talk about him though, which is to be expected. Will and Scully were yacking about him for a good while, trading barbs back and forth, although if you asked me to tell you exactly what was said I admit I kind of zoned out after a while there -they both went on and on in the same calm tones I just couldn't stay focused.

Not sure if it's been in previous episodes, but I noted the wheelchair in Dolarhyde's house this time around. I wonder if Fuller and co. will put an interesting twist on the death of Freddie Lounds like they have with others.

 

[Roose Bolton]

At this point I'd be ok if we got less of Hannibal to focus more of Dolarhyde and Will. In spite of how great his "therapy" session was this episode, and the subtle implication that Dolarhyde is the Anti-Christ to Hannibal's Devil.

 

[KillerMcQueen]

Bedelia felt very tacked on this episode but otherwise a good episode, Armitage is killing it.

 

[antsman41]

God damn, Dolarhyde threw Will around like a rag doll.

 

[Matt]

Bedelia felt very tacked on this episode but otherwise a good episode, Armitage is killing it.

Agreed. The character feels like a waste of time at this point. Of course, I have never seen much of a purpose to the character at all...in season 2, it was implied that she would play a role in exonerating Will...then she didn't. Instead she just pops up again at the end to run off with Hannibal. Her role in season 3.0 was little more than giving Hannibal someone to play off of and interact with. Her role in season 3.5 (i.e. the last episode) just felt pointless. It was a waste of time, IMO, much like the stuff with Alana.

This episode was kind of a tale of two episodes. The stuff with Dolarhyde and Reba was great. I am surprised he ate the painting already. Especially since that scene is designed to symbolize him breaking free of the Red Dragon's control (before being pushed over the edge by his perception of an affair between Reba and her co-worker). It seems early for that.

The stuff with Will and Bedalia on the other hand was pointless. It felt like filler. There are more worthy aspects of the story that can be explored (such as Jack, who has had no characterization in 3.5) or even Will and Hannibal's relationship. I do not understand why Hannibal asked for Will's address. That is to say, the ultimate reason for him obtaining that information is to sic Dolarhyde on Will and his family. He has no reason to do that, as they are currently characterized. Hannibal does it in the book because he resents and despises Will for outsmarting and imprisoning him. Hannibal of the show loves Will and imprisoned himself. Why would he want to extract revenge on someone he loves for something Hannibal did himself? These are questions that could be answered. Instead we are wasting time on a character who really serves no purpose. I mean, why did Will even bother seeing her? He is investigating a TIME SENSITIVE case and he decides to simply make a detour? WHY? For a show that has been very tightly written in terms of characterization, 3.5 is leaving a lot to be desired, IMO.

 

[Jesse]

Episode 10 "And the Woman Clothed in the Sun" Showing the phone conversation from Dolarhyde's perspective was interesting and having him call from Hannibal's office was a nice touch. Actually showing the Great Red Dragon posing with the flames behind him was a really cool visual. Glad to see they included the tiger scene and although I've seen two other versions of it I was still impressed with this. Rutina Wesley looked amazing in that gold dress. Nice to see Zachary Quinto show up seeing him choke and Gillian Anderson reach her arm down his throat was really disturbing. I thought the Hannibal and Will scene was fantastic. Dolarhyde eating the William Blake painting and manhandling Will in the elevator was a great way to end the episode.

 

[Sawyer]

I loved the Bedelia/Will stuff. I can really only take so much of Richard Armitage mumbling and having glowing blind girl sex fantasies.

 

[Matt.S99]

K, but it's queen Gillian. Any excuse to show her is okay with me!

 

[Roose Bolton]

"you weren't lost in Hannibal's bowels Bedelia, you just crawled so far up his ass that you couldn't be bothered to get out."

That was probably the best thing I took away from the Will/Bedelia interactions. Zachary Quinto was wasted.