Dr. Lecter Invites you to Dinner. The ''Hannibal'' Thread - Part 4

[Smilodon]

These Red Dragon episodes have been remarkable. The best parts of the first few seasons of Hannibal with a classic storyline. The home invasion was rather scary, and Armitage was terrifying when he wore the stocking on his head. Good acting.

Love the winks and nods to Red Dragon in this ep. Sending messages by toilet paper and tabloids is kinda cheesy in retrospect, but the way Mads just taunts everyone this episode. His delivery is just so dark compared to Hopkins, I love the contrast.

Jack is much more Silence of the Lambs Jack. I guess Fishburne was also busy with Blackish at the time this was being filmed which limited his availability, but man is he cold blooded now.

The Red Dragon eps have just been on a role. A 6 episode miniseries to do Silence of the Lambs would be perfect tbh.

 

[TheFuture]

I think that is why I disliked the overly long home invasion scene. What did it add? Just about nothing. Yes, we got some nice hospital scenes, but Molly and Will's relationship is already sufficiently developed and simply having the FBI get wise to Dolarhyde's plan and evacuate them in the dead of night is equally rattling to the relationships. It wasn't needed.

Meanwhile, Dolarhyde's backstory hasn't been explored at all and Hannibal's motivation for anything he is doing is at best unclear. WHY does he suddenly hate Will? Antman mentioned its cool to see the relationship reach this point but WHY is it at this point? Where is Hannibal's contempt toward someone he gave up his freedom for coming from?

It is interesting how the past two episodes have felt so much like filler. 3.5 should be the tightest story of the series. It is pre-crafted and Fueller always knew he had a box of episodes to tell it in. Yet it is the least structured narrative of the show's run. I find that curious.

I don't think it's really about hating Will, but rather it's about pushing Will to and over the edge.

That's what it has always been about for Hannibal in a way: as he said in his letter to Will at the beginning of this arc, madness awaits him by returning to the fold.

 

[Broseph44]

Matt why do you constantly call him Fueller, it's Fuller.

 

[Eddie Dean]

Matt hates Hannibal. No use arguing with him.

 

[Broseph44]

Matt hates Hannibal. No use arguing with him.

Oh I know I've been warned by him already that he will ban me from the thread before. He did the same with someone else too. I generally just pass over his posts now and avoid them. But I noticed he keeps saying Fueller and a couple people have pointed it out to him. Oh well haha.

 

[Broseph44]

So wait how many episodes are left now? It sucks that we aren't getting previews now after each episode.

 

[Slick]

I believe that we have 2 episodes left

 

[Roose Bolton]

We're still getting previews, they're just out on Monday/Tuesday's instead

 

[Slick]

I actually liked going into this episode blind.

 

[Tron Bonne]

Hannibal isn't doing anything to Will because he "hates" him all of a sudden. I mean, hell, he was going to eat Will earlier in the arc. He does it because Hannibal likes to see what Will does in certain situations, which has been true of how he's treated Will since the beginning of the show to one degree or another.

 

[Roose Bolton]

Matt's other complaint is pretty justified IMO. We really should be seeing Dolarhyde's backstory, especially when they have six episodes to tell the story as opposed to the basic feature length. It's the one big thing (besides Will's facial scarring) that's never been truly adapted in the previous iterations of Red Dragon .

 

[Marz69]

The scene where the red dragon fights himself. That was beautifully done.

 

[Marz69]

Will won't be Hannibal's any more,mans Hannibal can't/won't kill him himself... So, he's using TGRD at his advantage and tried to take out the replacement family Will has built himself. How is this hard to understand? Hannibal is jealous and now angry at Will.

This is how I saw it too. The relationship of Will & Hannibal has always been at the heart of the series for me. Action/reaction. And this was Hannibal's reaction to Will having a new family

 

[Broseph44]

Hannibal isn't doing anything to Will because he "hates" him all of a sudden. I mean, hell, he was going to eat Will earlier in the arc. He does it because Hannibal likes to see what Will does in certain situations, which has been true of how he's treated Will since the beginning of the show to one degree or another.

Exactly. It's not like it's out of nowhere or makes no sense.

 

[Roose Bolton]

[YT]biVFOYT-9Xk&feature=youtu.be[/YT]

I really hope Fuller doesn't [blackout] spare Freddie Lounds just so that he can kill off Chilton [/blackout]

 

[Matt]

Matt hates Hannibal. No use arguing with him.

Yes, just because I see flaws in the show and do not view it as perfect I must hate it. Grow up.

Matt's other complaint is pretty justified IMO. We really should be seeing Dolarhyde's backstory, especially when they have six episodes to tell the story as opposed to the basic feature length. It's the one big thing (besides Will's facial scarring) that's never been truly adapted in the previous iterations of Red Dragon .

It is really a shame. Especially when time is being wasted on BeDelia, a character who has brought nothing to the table narratively since season one (and arguably never).

 

[Eddie Dean]

All I ever here is negative things about the show from you, so, um...

 

[Perfect Cell]

Tonight's episode has been good. [blackout]The lip-biting scene certainly didn't shy away from it all.[/blackout]

 

[O'Haire]

Goddamn. [blackout]Poor Chilton. Can't say I like the guy, but nobody deserves the **** he's been put through this entire series.[/blackout]

 

[Roose Bolton]

They were very good scenes: well acted, well shot. The dialogue was word for word from the novel, and the edits were even done in a way to reflect Harris' prose. And the gore, **** me that was horrific stuff. The most horrifying scenes of this series IMO. Richard Armitage is not only my favourite depiction of Dolarhyde, but probably the standout from the cast right now.

The biggest problem was that while these scenes worked on their own, they fall apart when you apply them to essence of that storyline from the novel and the greater context. By having [blackout] Chilton [/blackout] in that role instead of [blackout] Freddie [/blackout] you kind of lose the true nature of the set up. [blackout] Freddie [/blackout] had personally insulted and humiliated Will, and the whole fate that befell that character was supposed to play on Will's mind, as to whether he knowingly set that character up out of revenge. They try to acknowledge that guilt aspect in this episode, but it really fails to have the same poignancy.


It was great Tv, but I think they've erred here.

 

[Jesse]

 

[slimshady247]

Given the nature of the established relationships on this show,

Spoiler

it really wouldn't have had the same impact if Will and Alana (and Jack) had set up Freddie instead of Chilton. Freddie has always been more of a peripheral, fly-you-wave-off sort of character. Chilton has had much more to do (and gotten ****ed over twice already before this, poor guy) and has a deeper relationship with the leads.

I don't think they've erred, I think it [BLACKOUT](like all the other deviations)[/BLACKOUT] makes sense for the show.

 

[Roose Bolton]

[BLACKOUT] Freddie's [/BLACKOUT] role is relatively minor, but that's not really the point of the character's fate. It was their relationship with Will that cast the doubt and unease over their eventual demise. How they had an adversarial relationship with him, and the hatred they shared.

Spoiler

I think it's a mistake because in the film and novel Will has a motivation to throw Freddie under the bus-personal revenge. Here, there was none of that, so when Chilton accuses Will of throwing him under the bus, it doesn't connect with me because Will truly lacks reasonable motive beyond "it's Chilton." And that doesn't really sit well with me in terms of characterization.

 

[slimshady247]

But they do have something of an adversarial relationship with [BLACKOUT]him[/BLACKOUT]. None of the characters seem to have a positive relationship with [BLACKOUT]him[/BLACKOUT] that goes beyond tolerance. Of course, things have become a little different from the first season, but [BLACKOUT]Chilton[/BLACKOUT] is still viewed by our three leads as, more or less, beneath them.

The impact remains because, rather than this just being out of hatred, it's more out of indifference and the characters viewing [BLACKOUT]Chilton[/BLACKOUT] as expendable.

I think that falls in line with their characterization on this show more than petty revenge would. As Freddie once pointed out, the other leads can, in their own ways, be just as psychopathic as Hannibal.

Not to mention that it would've felt wrong for [BLACKOUT]Freddie to be burnt alive when she's A) survived all the other dangerous encounters she's been in and B) played such a small role on the show, particularly in comparison to Chilton as another supporting character. Having her suffer the wheelchair death would've been treading the same ground as well, which is something I think Bryan Fuller wanted to avoid.[/BLACKOUT]

I understand where you're coming from, I just don't agree.

 

[Roose Bolton]

I think

Spoiler

Freddie burning alive in a wheelchair could have worked in theory, especially if they played up the fact that it was a direct taunt from Dolarhyde to Will. As Bryan Fuller mentioned in an interview during season 2 that he saw the original scheme as a way of Hannibal/Dolarhyde saying "This is how you should have died, this is how you will die." Hannibal himself reflected it in this very episode, so I think it could have worked well as an ironic echo.

I actually think the change comes from gender issues in that specific scene. Obviously there's a level of outrage it would have invoked, especially given some stuff that has happened on other big series when it comes to depiction of violence towards [blackout] women, [/blackout] and no doubt that would have caused ire. But also, Dolarhyde's pathology is very specific. [blackout] He focuses on the women above all others, and they play a central role in his Becoming. [/blackout] What he does to that character is outside of his usual pathology, his needs. Given how...unsettlingly intimate it is the whole scene would become something else, gains another undertone which maybe they were worried about depicting.