Fant4stic: Reborn! - - - - Part 23

[Flint Marko]

Your right context never changes anything (sarcasm).We should interpet everything printed exactly at face value.(sarcasm) See what I did there?

Yeah, dodge my question? You haven't answered me, I still don't know what context you could call Sue Storm a **** in and it would be acceptable.

The ****ty secertary is a thing in books,movies and television. It's not an implication that she wears revealing clothes or talks like a sailor. It's an energy they bring to the scene that oozes sexuality. In recent memory Scarlet played upon that trope in Iron Man 2.

Black Widows sexuality is a part of the character, she uses it to play men how she wants them and it's an interesting way to subvert expectations so it works for her.
Not to mention that Black Widow and Sue Storm are two very different characters, so the comparison between the two does not work.
Again, you still have not explain what "context" you can call Sue Storm, who has historically been portrayed as a scientist/mother figure, a ****ty secretary. I'm waiting for an answer.

 

[Dark Raven]

Your right context never changes anything (sarcasm).We should interpet everything printed exactly at face value.(sarcasm) See what I did there?

The ****ty secertary is a thing in books,movies and television. It's not an implication that she wears revealing clothes or talks like a sailor. It's an energy they bring to the scene that oozes sexuality. In recent memory Scarlet played upon that trope in Iron Man 2.

Why should Trank pick that trope though to demonstrate how Sue hasn't been done justice? It's not even a correct trope. If he wanted to pick one at all, it would've been more appropriate to choose something like the suburban housewife as an example of someone who is a more of a stay-at-home mom and supposedly not quite as involved as the men.

If he can't even pick the correct trope, then he doesn't have much credibility.

I can pick the wrong trope if I want to: Red Sonja is an example of the nerdy best friend confidante. Doesn't mean it's the correct usage.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

It sounds like he's not a fan of Tom DeFalco's Sue or the various Sue cheating on Reed with Namor stories. Good taste.

I could be wrong.. but did Sue actually ever "cheat" on Reed with Namor? I know she's run off to him and hung out with him, when things were messy, and has certainly been smitten. but i don't believe she actually ever slept with namor... They've kissed before.. and I don't think that makes her a ****.. it can be handled well and believably.

 

[Flint Marko]

I could be wrong.. but did Sue actually ever "cheat" on Reed with Namor? I know she's run off to him and hung out with him, when things were messy, and has certainly been smitten. but i don't believe she actually ever slept with namor... They've kissed before.. and I don't think that makes her a ****.. it can be handled well and believably.

I'm pretty sure they've never even kissed, but I could be wrong.
And if I am, the most they've ever done is kiss. And even so, does that justify Tranks comments? No, especially considering Trank probably never read those stories.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

Josh Tranq has never read a Fantastic Four comic in his life, and if he has, he hated it, got black-out drunk soon afterwards and forgot about it. There's some context for you.

 

[Paradox1]

Yeah, dodge my question? You haven't answered me, I still don't know what context you could call Sue Storm a **** in and it would be acceptable.


Black Widows sexuality is a part of the character, she uses it to play men how she wants them and it's an interesting way to subvert expectations so it works for her.
Not to mention that Black Widow and Sue Storm are two very different characters, so the comparison between the two does not work.
Again, you still have not explain what "context" you can call Sue Storm, who has historically been portrayed as a scientist/mother figure, a ****ty secretary. I'm waiting for an answer.

I am not comparing the Sue and BW, I said that trope was used in IM2. Also I haven't read the first FF story in a while. However didn't Sue start off as a actress? I believe the mission was a two man mission and Sue the actress sneaked on board with her teenage brother. So clearly not really smart and not really motherly at that point.

 

[Flint Marko]

I am not comparing the Sue and BW, I said that trope was used in IM2. Also I haven't read the first FF story in a while. However didn't Sue start off as a actress? I believe the mission was a two man mission and Sue the actress sneaked on board with her teenage brother. So clearly not really smart and not really motherly at that point.

...But does that make her a skank? No, it doesn't.
You still aren't answering my question, nor are you even addressing the larger point. Why are you so adamantly defending Trank when it's clear he doesn't know what he's talking about?

 

[Mike Murdock]

If anything, the Sue of the 60's was a Damsel in Distress, until she became a Superhero Housewife.

She really didn't become a true hero on her own until Byrne's run started.

In truth, I have no problem with going with her UFF version of the scientific peer of Reed.

Frankly, the original Sue Storm is just a terribly written character (we're talking about as originally written) that I hope they don't intend to emulate that. It can't even be chalked up to "product of their time" since she was so bad that fans wrote in to complain at how useless she was. It got so bad they literally had the Fantastic Four breaking the fourth wall to defend their fourth member. After that, her skills were a little better, but she was extremely weak and fragile with practically no impetus of her own. If she wasn't being told commands by Reed, she was worrying helplessly. Granted, stopping and waiting for Mr. Fantastic to tell her what to do was probably better than what Johnny and Ben did which was deliberately ignore him, charge in over cries of "no, wait" and then lose badly. Still, at least they didn't complain that no one was noticing her new hairstyle in the middle of a crisis.

 

[Dark Raven]

...But does that make her a skank? No, it doesn't.
You still aren't answering my question, nor are you even addressing the larger point. Why are you so adamantly defending Trank when it's clear he doesn't know what he's talking about?

Why are you asking such a dumb question? It's Paradox1.

 

[Zarex]

Josh Tranq has never read a Fantastic Four comic in his life, and if he has, he hated it, got black-out drunk soon afterwards and forgot about it. There's some context for you.

You're forgetting the part where he defecated on an issue of The
Worlds Greatest Comic Magazine and thought "This gives me the idea for a movie!"

 

[TeeKay]

Just read Joss's interview for AOU over at CBM and something made me smile because the guy knows his **** and he's just like us, a big fanboy....

"You know they’re going to fight Ultron. You know Ultron has a tendency to build hundreds of Ultrons. So that’s going to lead you in a certain direction, but the hard work of the thing is making sure everyone feels serviced and integrated. So, in the beginning it’s fun. You’re thinking, ‘What would be fun, what would be cool?’"

Now compare that to what Josh said about the FF.

 

[Flint Marko]

It's at a point where Trank could come out in an interview and say he killed Sue at the end of the movie, based Doom on Kermit the Frog, and Condoleezza Rice will be the villain of the sequel, and we'd still have people defending this.

 

[CConn]

Just read Joss's interview for AOU over at CBM and something made me smile because the guy knows his **** and he's just like us, a big fanboy....

"You know they’re going to fight Ultron. You know Ultron has a tendency to build hundreds of Ultrons. So that’s going to lead you in a certain direction, but the hard work of the thing is making sure everyone feels serviced and integrated. So, in the beginning it’s fun. You’re thinking, ‘What would be fun, what would be cool?’"

Now compare that to what Josh said about the FF.

It's too bad Whedon's such a poor director or we'd really get something special.

 

[TeeKay]

Yeah, that was confusing me, too.

Now I see why Kinberg is with him in interviews.Trank is all over the place.

I guess a dark Gremlins would be less child-friendly.

You only just figured that out now?

 

[Zarex]

It's too bad Whedon's such a poor director or we'd really get something special.

For such a poor director, he certainly manages to make wonderful movies and television episodes. Firefly, The Avengers, Buffy, Serenity, Dr. Horrible, Much Ado About Nothing. Just lucky, I guess!

 

[Whiskey Tango]

For such a poor director, her certainly manages to make wonderful movies and television episodes. Firefly, The Avengers, Buffy, Serenity, Dr. Horrible, Much Ado About Nothing. Just lucky, I guess!

He's no Josh Tranq tho bro

 

[TheComicbookKid]

You only just figured that out now?

I usually don't pay attention to interviews unless someone makes a gaffe that blows up.

Most directors and actors give kind of blanket statements that could cover any film.

Trank sounds like the condescending nerd you meet in comic shops. But he's also, so far, been honest about what he's doing. The Amblin, Cronenberg, non-comic tone FF is exactly what's been on screen so far.

Doing the opposite, that's usually the downfall of movies like this. They lie/pander/exaggerate to the fans about what they're doing(pulling from the source or the character will do this and that) to get them in theaters then fans get mad when they're duped. Michael Bay is notorious for this.

 

[Flint Marko]

I usually don't pay attention to interviews unless someone makes a gaffe that blows up.

Most directors and actors give kind of blanket statements that could cover any film.

Trank sounds like the condescending nerd you meet in comic shops. But he's also, so far, been honest about what he's doing. The Amblin, Cronenberg, non-comic tone FF is exactly what's been on screen so far.

That's usually the downfall of movies like this. They lie/pander/exaggerate to the fans about what they're doing(pulling from the source or the character will do this and that) to get them in theaters then fans get mad when they're duped. Michael Bay is notorious for this.

He's being forthright, I'll give him that, but that only goes so far in my book. Especially when he says things that make me think he fundamentally just does not understand the characters he is adapting.

 

[CConn]

For such a poor director, he certainly manages to make wonderful movies and television episodes. Firefly, The Avengers, Buffy, Serenity, Dr. Horrible, Much Ado About Nothing. Just lucky, I guess!

Most of those aren't that good, half of those failed commercially, and all of those could've succeeded despite his direction, not because of it.

But this isn't about Joss Whedon, so I digress.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

I'm pretty sure they've never even kissed, but I could be wrong.
And if I am, the most they've ever done is kiss. And even so, does that justify Tranks comments? No, especially considering Trank probably never read those stories.

ive never read the stories with them getting cozy.. but there are comic covers and panels of them kissing.. but context is key with those and i don't have the context

 

[Flint Marko]

ive never read the stories with them getting cozy.. but there are comic covers and panels of them kissing.. but context is key with those and i don't have the context

Yeah, I could easily be wrong but I highly doubt Marvel would have, at any point, have Sue and Namor go any further past a kiss. And that doesn't maker her a tramp.

 

[Zarex]

Most of those aren't that good, half of those failed commercially, and all of those could've succeeded despite his direction, not because of it.

But this isn't about Joss Whedon, so I digress.

I contend that most of Whedon's projects are of very high quality, and I wouldn't think to judge an artistic work based on its commercial viability. But you appear to be all aboard the FFINO train, so there are bound to be some disagreements between us.

 

[Dark Raven]

I usually don't pay attention to interviews unless someone makes a gaffe that blows up.

Most directors and actors give kind of blanket statements that could cover any film.

Trank sounds like the condescending nerd you meet in comic shops. But he's also, so far, been honest about what he's doing. The Amblin, Cronenberg, non-comic tone FF is exactly what's been on screen so far.

Doing the opposite, that's usually the downfall of movies like this. They lie/pander/exaggerate to the fans about what they're doing(pulling from the source or the character will do this and that) to get them in theaters then fans get mad when they're duped. Michael Bay is notorious for this.

 

[Farren]

"****ty secretary?" Seriously?

Original Sue had problems but mischaracterizing them is sort of disrespectful towards what those problems really were.

 

[wobbly]

The ****ty secertary is a thing in books,movies and television. It's not an implication that she wears revealing clothes or talks like a sailor. It's an energy they bring to the scene that oozes sexuality. In recent memory Scarlet played upon that trope in Iron Man 2.

Scarlett was posing as a 'Sexy Secretary'. That was her cover working for Stark: She was a secretary and thanks to Stark's quick-fire search skills, a part of that cover was that she was also a former lingerie model = sexy secretary. Simple math.

Now 'sexy secretary' is a trope. It's usually applied for someone who may not be great at the job, but get on by looking great doing it. They can be both great at the job and look great too.

However, afaik "slu#ty secretary" is not actually a trope, at least not beyond porn, as the term slu# obviously implies a woman of very 'easy virtue' so to speak.

Basically, it's not a flattering term to call someone at all, and one Trank should never have used, especially for Sue.

I cannot think of any 'context' absent from his quote that can defends it's use.