Fant4stic: Reborn! - - - - Part 23

[moviedoors]

The new trailer could be Trank ripping up an FF comic book and flipping off the camera and a handful of people would still defend "his vision."

Once again, reminds me of a certain awful, recent Ninja Turtles movie.

It REALLY bugs you that there are people with a positive attitude about this picture, don't it?

 

[Kelly]

I'm saying people said the same things about the first xmen movie(from the costumes to jackman and so forth). Questions if the comics were even read and such. I also said similar detraction was made of First Class during it's entire pre-release(no thanks to the marketing), and oddly enough Fox being the common through line.

As for marvel doing alot more exciting and fun things, that statement only makes sense if you mean to imply the term 'in your opinion'. Which I'm sure you do, but reading that statement as is....

Not everyone finds the same things exciting. For example if you could imagine all the many people that don't find those Thor movies exciting and apply that feeling to the entire approach, and if you could imagine further all the people that found something like DOFP more exciting in it's own way, presto.
Not everyone buys the same comic books, and the mcu is producing one type whereas the other studios are producing another. Not everyone likes the same type of comics.

All that proves is that people have different opinions, as they do with this project.

It REALLY bugs you that there are people with a positive attitude about this picture, don't it?

No, it is simply a difference of opinion...

 

[pavlov]

All that proves is that people have different opinions, as they do with this project.



No, it is simply a difference of opinion...

Differences in opinion are fine but when disrespectful language is used like that, it just doesn't sit well. Maybe some "moderation" is needed?

 

[Kelly]

Differences in opinion are fine but when disrespectful language is used like that, it just doesn't sit well. Maybe some "moderation" is needed?

Maybe it has and you simply have not seen it (as in, much is done behind the scenes) or you don't agree with the action taken.

Either way, it is happening...

 

[Marvin]

All that proves is that people have different opinions, as they do with this project.

Clearly.
Opinions are all well and good. Like an orange more than an apple all you want, it's in these explanations that things are getting muddled. Such as why a black johnny is a bad thing and such.

If one wants something to be like the source material and that's why they like it a certain way, have at it I suppose. But when that's the argument as to why something is 'better', best to specify what kind of 'better' is meant.

 

[Kelly]

Clearly.
Opinions are all well and good. Like an orange more than an apple all you want, it's in these explanations that things are getting muddled. Such as why a black johnny is a bad thing and such.

If one wants something to be like the source material and that's why they like it a certain way, have at it I suppose. But when that's the argument as to why something is 'better', best to specify what kind of 'better' is meant.

People have given lengthy reasons as to why they have problems with this production including the cast. And have given opinions that they have backed up with years of art, characterization, etc. I haven't seen you here from the beginning, so maybe you missed those things, we do however have a thread at the top that has given some of those reasons.

If you choose to disagree with them, that is fine, but to say that they are muddled, then it is clear that you simply want to disagree, not understand. And that is fine, that is your choice.

But do not think that we are again going to go through each and everyone of the problems seen, or go back to the discussion of race, because that just isn't going to happen. Those bringing up race these days are simply those wanting an argument, and its just not going to go there.

I for one am more than happy to take a "wait and see" side to this discussion....but, to say that fans of decades of this comic have "muddled" reasons for their distaste of what they have seen is simply not true.

 

[Marvin]

People have given lengthy reasons as to why they have problems with this production including the cast. And have given opinions that they have backed up with years of art, characterization, etc. I haven't seen you here from the beginning, so maybe you missed those things, we do however have a thread at the top that has given some of those reasons.

If you choose to disagree with them, that is fine, but to say that they are muddled, then it is clear that you simply want to disagree, not understand. And that is fine, that is your choice.

But do not think that we are again going to go through each and everyone of the problems seen, or go back to the discussion of race, because that just isn't going to happen. Those bringing up race these days are simply those wanting an argument, and its just not going to go there.

I for one am more than happy to take a "wait and see" side to this discussion....but, to say that fans of decades of this comic have "muddled" reasons for their distaste of what they have seen is simply not true.

I explained when things get, or what leads to things getting muddled. Never said things I don't agree with or everyone's reasons for hating something are! Again, people can like what they like that's where opinion rings truest, it's in the explanations of why that things (CAN) tend to get muddled especially when you pop in and remind us that it's all opinion.... For people try to substantiate their preference with something more than 'opinion' in order to convince others all the time here. The difference between why you like something vs why something is better is where things can get muddled for one clearly reflects preference and opinion whereas the other can reflect more depending on the phrasing.

Secondly, please don't assume I want to do anything. If I don't understand something, and disagree with it, let the assumption stop there. As for how long I've been here, not long, and because of that I'm addressing the comments I've read in that time. If something else was talked about earlier that's all well and good. I tend to talk about what's infront of me. That being said this section does have somewhat of a reputation, but I don't really know much about that.

 

[moviedoors]

No, it is simply a difference of opinion...

Then why the hostility?

 

[Kelly]

Then why the hostility?

Well, probably because of the months of being called haters, racist, haters again, etc. After awhile, I'm sure they get kinda grizzly.

 

[flickchick85]

Let's get back to discussing the film, not the attitudes of other posters.

 

[RAE072]

Differences in opinion are fine but when disrespectful language is used like that, it just doesn't sit well. Maybe some "moderation" is needed?

I love this. "Disrespectful language." It's so good.

H4ters gonna H4te, I guess.

Well, probably because of the months of being called haters, racist, haters again, etc. After awhile, I'm sure they get kinda grizzly.

NAH. CAN'T BE THAT.

It REALLY bugs you that there are people with a positive attitude about this picture, don't it?

No more so than it must bug you that I and others are being negative about it.

 

[CyclopsWasRight]

Good article at screenrant outlining the core elements of the movie from the specific comics it's based upon to the characterisations and so forth

I like this quote...

This is a really, really smart Sue, and one that is dignified and has integrity.”

I'd post the link but I think it may have some words not allowed by this board, should be able to find it easily.

Albas Sue was presented as a Scientist but basically just was there to look hot in her scientist look before ditching that and looking hot in other looks, I don't recall her being that smart or sciency so it'll be good to see that from Mara

 

[jaymes_e06]

I don't know about "good" but it at least shows he was putting some thought into it in some way so.... yeah.

 

[Orba]

Good article at screenrant outlining the core elements of the movie from the specific comics it's based upon to the characterisations and so forth

I like this quote...



I'd post the link but I think it may have some words not allowed by this board, should be able to find it easily.

Albas Sue was presented as a Scientist but basically just was there to look hot in her scientist look before ditching that and looking hot in other looks, I don't recall her being that smart or sciency

But the problem as others have already discussed is that Trank doesn't say scantily, he says "****ty". Sue has been many things over the years but "****ty" is not one of them, and that he would see her as that would seem to indicate that he does not have a very good understanding of who the character is.

 

[CyclopsWasRight]

Perhaps instead of looking at it like this...

"There have always been two categories of Sue the ****ty secretary version, and this brilliant scientist version. This is a really, really smart Sue, and one that is dignified and has integrity.”

Why not look at it like this...

"There have always been two categories of Sue – the ****ty secretary version, and this brilliant scientist version. This is a really, really smart Sue, and one that is dignified and has integrity.”

 

[Orba]

Except what you wear doesn't determine if a person is ****ty, its how they act and behave, and in the quote Trank is talking about the character, not how she looks, but how she is portrayed in the stories.

As for those pictures, those are just unfortunate casualties of the eras they were drawn in, and there were plenty of characters that were hit worse.

 

[Havok83]

that first image isnt Sue and that second one, well.....yeah. Not her finest moment

 

[CyclopsWasRight]

Except what you wear doesn't determine if a person is ****ty, its how they act and behave

Quite right, I realised that so removed them

 

[wobbly]

Perhaps instead of looking at it like this...

Why not look at it like this...

I can't ignore the director talking out his rear end big time with a totally false representation of one version of Sue (616) so as to validate the other more. He is flat out wrong, insulting the 616 character to promote his own UFF based version, whether you de-emphasise it or not.

I also would not attempt to deliberately hide his error by rewriting what he said in the first place: Your first quote changing the 'slu#ty' to 'scantilly'? That's quite the typo.

That revision is not true either, unless we somehow count a relatively brief period in the 90's as 'always'. But then we would be wrongly assuming that is representative of more than 50 years of comic history where most of the time she has actually worn more than Mara will be here.

Trank got it wrong. Big time wrong. You can ignore that, try to revise it, or de-emphasise that all you want, but he is still spectacularly wrong.

 

[Kelly]

We are going to say this one more time, and this is the last warning you are going to get.....

Keep your opinions to the production, not personal commentary on posters and their opinions.

You make your opinion stronger by backing it up, you weaken it by personally tearing down other posters to make your point.

So, on both sides of this discussion, STOP THE PERSONAL STUFF.

We will be giving infractions WITH time off to ANYONE, that continues in this type of posting.

People can STILL LIKE WHAT THEY SEE WITH THIS MOVIE AND BE FANS OF THE COMICS...AND PEOPLE CAN SPECULATE ALL THEY WANT, AND GIVE THEIR OPINIONS NEGATIVE OR POSITIVE ALL THEY WANT on what they are hearing and seeing from this production. IT IS A DIFFERENCE OF OPINION, NOT A PERSONAL ATTACK ON ANYONE'S INTEGRITY so stop taking things so personally.

DO NOT REPLY TO THIS POST, SIMPLY STOP WITH THE PERSONAL CUT DOWNS!

 

[Cagefighterkip]

I can't ignore the director talking out his rear end big time with a totally false representation of one version of Sue (616) so as to validate the other more. He is flat out wrong, insulting the 616 character to promote his own UFF based version, whether you de-emphasise it or not.

I also would not attempt to deliberately hide his error by rewriting what he said in the first place: Your first quote changing the 'slu#ty' to 'scantilly'? That's quite the typo.

That revision is not true either, unless we somehow count a relatively brief period in the 90's as 'always'. But then we would be wrongly assuming that is representative of more than 50 years of comic history where most of the time she has actually worn more than Mara will be here.

Trank got it wrong. Big time wrong. You can ignore that, try to revise it, or de-emphasise that all you want, but he is still spectacularly wrong.

As someone who is quite positive about this flick and likes the trailer and what I've been seeing... agreed. Trank done goofed.

 

[Ragnaroknroll]

I can't ignore the director talking out his rear end big time with a totally false representation of one version of Sue (616) so as to validate the other more. He is flat out wrong, insulting the 616 character to promote his own UFF based version, whether you de-emphasise it or not.

I also would not attempt to deliberately hide his error by rewriting what he said in the first place: Your first quote changing the 'slu#ty' to 'scantilly'? That's quite the typo.

That revision is not true either, unless we somehow count a relatively brief period in the 90's as 'always'. But then we would be wrongly assuming that is representative of more than 50 years of comic history where most of the time she has actually worn more than Mara will be here.

Trank got it wrong. Big time wrong. You can ignore that, try to revise it, or de-emphasise that all you want, but he is still spectacularly wrong.

Honestly I was disgusted by the utter lack of understanding of the property evinced by those ignorant comments. It just further cements my view that Trank was wrong for this project from the get go. Flavor of the week director who shoots his first film for $12 million. Fox says - how do we keep these rights for as cheaply as possible while maintaining some positive buzz for fans to jump aboard? He's the guy for us!

Meanwhile, take it for what you will but there are rumors that these weeks of reshoots are being directed by the stunt coordinator. Trank is not involved. This is the word from the people actually working on the reshoots.

 

[coolmovies]

Honestly I was disgusted by the utter lack of understanding of the property evinced by those ignorant comments. It just further cements my view that Trank was wrong for this project from the get go. Flavor of the week director who shoots his first film for $12 million. Fox says - how do we keep these rights for as cheaply as possible while maintaining some positive buzz for fans to jump aboard? He's the guy for us!

Meanwhile, take it for what you will but there are rumors that these weeks of reshoots are being directed by the stunt coordinator. Trank is not involved. This is the word from the people actually working on the reshoots.

Dude, reshoots were done a while ago. I am 100% sure of this.

BTW I know this movie has a troubled post production, a lot to do with the CGI and lack of action. That's all. Not saying its going to be a good movie, likely will be disaster, but the rumours surrounding it are getting very suspicious.

 

[Kelly]

I can't ignore the director talking out his rear end big time with a totally false representation of one version of Sue (616) so as to validate the other more. He is flat out wrong, insulting the 616 character to promote his own UFF based version, whether you de-emphasise it or not.

I also would not attempt to deliberately hide his error by rewriting what he said in the first place: Your first quote changing the 'slu#ty' to 'scantilly'? That's quite the typo.

That revision is not true either, unless we somehow count a relatively brief period in the 90's as 'always'. But then we would be wrongly assuming that is representative of more than 50 years of comic history where most of the time she has actually worn more than Mara will be here.

Trank got it wrong. Big time wrong. You can ignore that, try to revise it, or de-emphasise that all you want, but he is still spectacularly wrong.

My opinion on Sue in each of the comics has been the following:

616
For a good portion of its early years, she was nothing more than the girl that needed saving. The pin up Sue is just not what women want to see in a female hero.

F
The reason I liked the Marvel Knights F4 so much more is because Sue became so much more....she was seen saving the guys, she was seen standing up for herself rather than waiting on one of the guys to stand up for her.

UFF
THIS IS WHERE I have seen the sexualization of Sue as far as how she dresses, not so much in the dialogue, so I'm not sure what Trank is talking about, or that he even knows what he is talking about....not really sure.

BUT....if Sue is written as a smart, sassy (not *****y), I can kick your ass, but I won't because that is not my nature kind of Sue...then more power to him.

I want more of this Sue when her family is in danger.....

hahaha....

For me, a movie close to the Roberto Aguirre-Sacasa and Steve McNiven run would be my favorite....that isn't going to happen, but I could definitely get excited about that...

 

[Drz]

Can FOX make their version of Namor for the FF Franchise or is he Marvel exclusive?