Fant4stic Fant4stic: Reborn! - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 31

[spideyboy_1111]

The problem is that you don't have to be racist to make ignorant/offensive comments.

A sexist/offenisive comment doesn't just come from men who hate women. And in frustration very calm reasonable people will say hurtful things.

We also now live in a generation where everyone is overly sensative about everything to the point no matter how the goal post is moved to whats deemed "acceptable" someone is going to get offended and the post will shift yet again. Yes some people are disgusting and hurtful individuals.. but on the flip side... there's many who need to grow a backbone as well

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Wasn't it? I know people were blaming SJW and Whedon said that wasn't it. He needed quite time.

Whedon is kinda a recluse. He also doesnt let people get to him usually... its not uncommon for him to fall of the face of the earth to recoup.

People just assumed it was the femminists attacking him

 

[TheComicbookKid]

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/joss-whedon-explains-why-he-793852

Yeah? Isn't that what I said? Not SJW. Quiet time.
Whedon usually interacts with fans on twitter. He didn't need to quit Twitter. Just stop reading. People say Jordan should just do the work but he has to promote on social media. So he will see what is written at him.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

While CBMs should strive be visually faithful to the source material, the F4 is overwhelmingly white in the comics. I don't mind the race change so much because in the case of HT, he's more visually recognizable as the man on fire than as the blonde boy.

Also, minorities are under-represented in the genre. Heck they had to adapt Ultimate Nick Fury just to shoehorn some sideline color in the overwhelmingly white and male Avengers.

The thing is... there's plenty of minority heroes out there, the studios just dont have faith in making films about them. As for fury... he wasnt made black for the sake of diversity... he was famously paired with the likeness of slj in the comics. Ao they thought itd be great to have the actor behind the look portray him...

Also... making johnny black is the least sensicle out of the group. Why not reed or ben? They dont have sue as a blood telative and also would be a thousand times more interesting. Rather than making the wise cracking immature team member take that spot. Why not the best friend with the heart of gold who they take in as family... or the super genius??

 

[TheComicbookKid]

We also now live in a generation where everyone is overly sensative about everything to the point no matter how the goal post is moved to whats deemed "acceptable" someone is going to get offended and the post will shift yet again. Yes some people are disgusting and hurtful individuals.. but on the flip side... there's many who need to grow a backbone as well

We'll if we're talking generally about a world where kids are cyber bullied into suicide then no. Stop being a-holes.

Talking about imaginary four color characters from a piece of paper. Both sides need to get a grip.

 

[pavlov]

The thing is... there's plenty of minority heroes out there, the studios just dont have faith in making films about them. As for fury... he wasnt made black for the sake of diversity... he was famously paired with the likeness of slj in the comics. Ao they thought itd be great to have the actor behind the look portray him...

Also... making johnny black is the least sensicle out of the group. Why not reed or ben? They dont have sue as a blood telative and also would be a thousand times more interesting. Rather than making the wise cracking immature team member take that spot. Why not the best friend with the heart of gold who they take in as family... or the super genius??

But...the F4 are all white. Which minority F4 comicbook character can be shoehorned to fill the gap for this movie? It makes sense for MBJ to play HT characterization wise. I think it's disingenuous to think that people would more okay if the race change happened to Reed, Ben or Sue.

 

[Sleiek]

Also... making johnny black is the least sensicle out of the group. Why not reed or ben? They dont have sue as a blood telative and also would be a thousand times more interesting. Rather than making the wise cracking immature team member take that spot. Why not the best friend with the heart of gold who they take in as family... or the super genius??

Personally though, if they had to have one black character I would choose Human Torch. Others feel more awkward to me.

Also the only reason we have a black character is because the film makers liked MBJ and he is most relatable to Human Torch. He can't be Sue or Reed. Ben Grimm is possible but it will also cause a controversy if you ask me.

If it wasn't for MBJ, I bet they would have all been white.

 

[pavlov]

Personally though, if they had to have one black character I would choose Human Torch. Others feel more awkward to me.

Also the only reason we have a black character is because the film makers liked MBJ and he is most relatable to Human Torch. He can't be Sue or Reed. Ben Grimm is possible but it will also cause a controversy if you ask me.

If it wasn't for MBJ, I bet they would have all been white.

I'm all for this updated 21st century version. The classic 616 has had its hayday and all its adaptations in different media have failed as of late.

 

[TeeKay]

Because of bad writing. Are you trying to say with good writing those previous FF would have failed and bombed?

 

[Eddie]

I'm all for this updated 21st century version. The classic 616 has had its hayday and all its adaptations in different media have failed as of late.

You know what 616 inspired media adaptation did really well? Marvel Ultimate Alliance. Doom was the big bad, the Four and Silver Surfer were playable, Skrulls were in it, a 616 inspired Galactus was a major boss fight, and Uatu also was a big factor.

Don't pretend 616 FF doesn't do well to justify your support of a version that doesn't resemble anything longtime fans have wanted. It's bull.

 

[ThePhantasm]

Actually you don't see 'this' kind for many films. The F4 'debacle' and this casting have gotten a massive amount of traction and you are suggesting now to me it's the actually filmmakers doing in their response?

Well, let's see. There's already been a racist troll backlash against Boyega in Star Wars, even though Billy Dee Williams was in the OT, and Samuel L Jackson in the PT. And a racist troll backlash against Perry White in MOS. There were complaints about Heimdall being black when Thor first came out.

So yeah, this is pretty par for the course. F4 is a debacle for many reasons, but it isn't unique in that its targeted by racist trolls. The only unique thing about it is that the filmmakers seem incapable of recognizing that their constant indignant responses only feed the trolls more.

And lastly, as Kelly said, being unhappy with the Michael Jordan casting doesn't make you racist.

 

[RAE072]

Because of bad writing. Are you trying to say with good writing those previous FF would have failed and bombed?

You know what 616 inspired media adaptation did really well? Marvel Ultimate Alliance. Doom was the big bad, the Four and Silver Surfer were playable, Skrulls were in it, a 616 inspired Galactus was a major boss fight, and Uatu also was a big factor.

Don't pretend 616 FF doesn't do well to justify your support of a version that doesn't resemble anything longtime fans have wanted. It's bull.

They'll bend over six different ways from sunday to defend this thing.

 

[Ragnaroknroll]

The only reason I would want to see Johnny as a white guy is because he's what I'm used to. And comics are a visual medium so it makes sense why others would feel the same. Not seeing the characters the way they look on the page - well it takes you out of it a little bit. But in the end - I understand it's the 21st century - and if MBJ can capture the spirit of the character, then it's not that big a deal to me. I actually find him the most appealing casting choice of the Four so go figure.

However, why did they have to go the adoption route? That irks me. If they absolutely had to have a lilly white Sue (because interracial relationships aren't a thing?) why not at the very least make Johnny/Sue share at least one parent? Otherwise there's not a single blood relation on the team. They are the only two with energy based powers and their blood tie always helped kind of explain that. Again this is Trank doing whatever he feels like with the material. I'm not a fan of these kind of sweeping changes to the source. This goes way beyond just picking the "right actor for the part".

 

[pavlov]

You know what 616 inspired media adaptation did really well? Marvel Ultimate Alliance. Doom was the big bad, the Four and Silver Surfer were playable, Skrulls were in it, a 616 inspired Galactus was a major boss fight, and Uatu also was a big factor.

Don't pretend 616 FF doesn't do well to justify your support of a version that doesn't resemble anything longtime fans have wanted. It's bull.

Marvel Ultimate Alliance isn't solely F4 though. Do you have statistical data that the success of this game is mainly due to the "correct" adaptation of F4 characters and not because of the X-Men, Avengers, etc? Was HT portrayed as a blue-eyed blond boy in this even?

 

[RAE072]

Do you have statistical data

Do YOU have statistical data that the previous FF movies failed because they were fairly faithful in look sorta to the comics?

 

[Paradox1]

No, no one has said the specific quote you have proposed...that doesn't mean that what C. Lee stated is not true.

I simply questioned the choice of actor early on in the casting process and was deemed a racist, immediately, as were most who said they didn't feel like a race change was needed, they were also deemed racist.

Even specific posts from this forum were used as examples of racism, when in fact the people that wrote those posts were not racists, they were simply fans that were not happy with the change.

I can pretty much say that the vast majority of those that were not happy with this particular change have not been happy with many of the other changes as well..........YET, they were deemed racists.

Which as far as I'm concerned was the most disrespectful, and disgusting viewpoint to take on these people and their desire to see on screen what they have seen and read for decades.

It is a subject that I detest talking about because the word was used in such a general and uneducated way it was tough to read through.

And for the cast or director to bring up THAT as a specific example of racism and get up on their high horse, rather than take the high road....is very telling.

In my opinion, they should be standing BY WHAT THEY BELIEVE IS A WORTHWHILE FILM TO SEE, AND A PROJECT THEY WERE PROUD TO BE A PART OF....not picking out a small minority of people to whine about.

I don't care if your rich, poor,female.a minority, alien or whatever, people first of all should be treated with respect.The cast and crew are actually human beings and being called hateful words actually stings. Just because there a coward who can only say it behind a computer screen doesn't make it easier. At least if they did it to his face he could slap the **** out of them. Which I would of loved to see. So I don't blame them for talking about it. Like I said before MBJ was kind cause I'd posted names for the world to see. So they can have that feeling of having hate put on them by people on their computer.

 

[kevork89]

They'll bend over six different ways from sunday to defend this thing.

Yeah and you do the same to bring it down. Why does it always come back to saying something negative towards people who are supporting this movie with you?

 

[Eddie]

Marvel Ultimate Alliance isn't solely F4 though. Do you have statistical data that the success of this game is mainly due to the "correct" adaptation of F4 characters and not because of the X-Men, Avengers, etc? Was HT portrayed as a blue-eyed blond boy in this even?

Human Torch was primarily based on 616, so he happened to look as such.

As for your nonsense about statistical data, I think it's enough to say they slapped Ben on the cover and prominently featured FF concepts in promotional materials (particularly the SS/Galactus part). The game has FF content throughout, and it's awesome.

 

[ThePhantasm]

I'm all for this updated 21st century version. The classic 616 has had its hayday and all its adaptations in different media have failed as of late.

Like The Incredibles, which was basically 616 FF in tone and spirit?

Oh wait, that was a huge success. Maybe because it was well written and had a lot of heart, unlike the Tim Story cheesy joke-fests.

 

[kevork89]

The only reason I would want to see Johnny as a white guy is because he's what I'm used to. And comics are a visual medium so it makes sense why others would feel the same. Not seeing the characters the way they look on the page - well it takes you out of it a little bit. But in the end - I understand it's the 21st century - and if MBJ can capture the spirit of the character, then it's not that big a deal to me. I actually find him the most appealing casting choice of the Four so go figure.

However, why did they have to go the adoption route? That irks me. If they absolutely had to have a lilly white Sue (because interracial relationships aren't a thing?) why not at the very least make Johnny/Sue share at least one parent? Otherwise there's not a single blood relation on the team. They are the only two with energy based powers and their blood tie always helped kind of explain that. Again this is Trank doing whatever he feels like with the material. I'm not a fan of these kind of sweeping changes to the source. This goes way beyond just picking the "right actor for the part".

I can't say that I don't agree with you here because it would be the same for me if they decided to cast a black actor to play Cylops. It's strange because you are not used to it. I definitely don't think that anyone on here is motivated by racism.

Has it been said yet that Sue is adopted? They could easily have different mothers.

 

[Kelly]

I can't say that I don't agree with you here because it would be the same for me if they decided to cast a black actor to play Cylops. It's strange because you are not used to it. I definitely don't think that anyone on here is motivated by racism.

Has it been said yet that Sue is adopted? They could easily have different mothers.

Yes, in the storyline she is adopted.

 

[RAE072]

Yeah and you do the same to bring it down.

No it's actually quite easy for me to do that. Movie's thoughtful in that regard.

 

[TeeKay]

Like The Incredibles, which was basically 616 FF in tone and spirit?

Oh wait, that was a huge success. Maybe because it was well written and had a lot of heart, unlike the Tim Story cheesy joke-fests.

 

[kevork89]

Yes, in the storyline she is adopted.

Ok cool thanks. I didn't know for sure.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

I don't know why people keep trying to say that the Story films were accurate to the comics. They weren't. That was one of their biggest problems.