Fant4stic: Reborn! - Part 35

[TheComicbookKid]

I actually looked it up. Only 16 out of the 52 CBMs since Superman have been 80% or more.

Superman, Superman 2, Batman Returns, The Nolan Trilogy, Iron Man, Avengers, TWS, GOTG, X-Men, X2, FC, DOFP, Spider-Man and Spider-Man 2.

Putting my money on the next one, wouldn't be FF. I'd be honestly shocked.

Dang they love Singer.

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

That would be almost twice as better as the first one. I mean statistically that would be better.

Aaaaannnd statistically still "certified rotten" too.

 

[jaymes_e06]

That would be almost twice as better as the first one. I mean statistically that would be better.

Exactly. That would be the correct rate increase based on those stats.

My point was (and I was being facetious btw) that it would still be nowhere near 80-90.

 

[RAE072]

Dang they love Singer.

Hiding this because it's off topic.

Spoiler

Yeah. Because after he left the X-Franchise **** all over itself with Last Stand and Origins.

Without him they don't/won't know what to do with these characters and movies. Especially now that Jackman will be leaving soon. As are, I think, Lawrence, McAvoy, and Fassbender(unless they give them waaaayyyy more money).

It's no surprise at all that once he came back, X-Men got HUGE again. First Class was only a stepping stone, and mildly better than the previous Singerless movies(didn't see Wolverine).

Deadpool is shaping up well because there's passion and love behind it(same passion that Singer had/has for X-Men).

This all happens pretty much despite FOX.

 

[Val_Zod]

Dang they love Singer.

I say they love Nolan more, as he has yet to have a rotten film. Heck, just a non certified fresh film at the least.

 

[jaymes_e06]

Hiding this because it's off topic.

Spoiler

Yeah. Because after he left the X-Franchise **** all over itself with Last Stand and Origins.

Without him they don't/won't know what to do with these characters and movies. Especially now that Jackman will be leaving soon. As are, I think, Lawrence, McAvoy, and Fassbender(unless they give them waaaayyyy more money).

It's no surprise at all that once he came back, X-Men got HUGE again. First Class was only a stepping stone, and mildly better than the previous Singerless movies(didn't see Wolverine).

Deadpool is shaping up well because there's passion and love behind it(same passion that Singer had/has for X-Men).

This all happens pretty much despite FOX.

[BLACKOUT]Yeah he was even very much apart of FC From casting to wardrobe and generally the tone. Though it wasn't his film he was very much the backbone of the film.[/BLACKOUT]

 

[Erzengel]

Exactly. That would be the correct rate increase based on those stats.

My point was (and I was being facetious btw) that it would still be nowhere near 80-90.

I know. So was I.

I just think it's sad, that unless I'm wrong, this will best rated "FF" movie at 40-50%. The characters deserve more.

 

[RAE072]

[BLACKOUT]Yeah he was even very much apart of FC From casting to wardrobe and generally the tone. Though it wasn't his film he was very much the backbone of the film.[/BLACKOUT]

Spoiler

See? The second they brought him back, the franchise started to live again and then the second he started directing it was one of the biggest movies of the summer.

When he's gone? Oh man.

Same thing is happening here. FOX has/had no idea what to do with their comic book movies that DON'T involve Bryan Singer. First two FFs? Bad. Daredevil? Bad. LXG? Bad. Elektra? Bad. Singer-less X-Movies? Bad to mediocre at best(again, didn't see Wolverine).

And this one's looking to be the exact same way.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

Hiding this because it's off topic.

Spoiler

Yeah. Because after he left the X-Franchise **** all over itself with Last Stand and Origins.

Without him they don't/won't know what to do with these characters and movies. Especially now that Jackman will be leaving soon. As are, I think, Lawrence, McAvoy, and Fassbender(unless they give them waaaayyyy more money).

It's no surprise at all that once he came back, X-Men got HUGE again. First Class was only a stepping stone, and mildly better than the previous Singerless movies(didn't see Wolverine).

Deadpool is shaping up well because there's passion and love behind it(same passion that Singer had/has for X-Men).

This all happens pretty much despite FOX.

Slightly back on topic.

That's why I'd be surprised if a possible sequel FF used Singer. I think they know they have to move past Singer (at least hands on directing). He's given them a good blueprint.

 

[Erzengel]

Only issue I have with Singer is his marginalizing of every X-Men character except a handful.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

I know. So was I.

I just think it's sad, that unless I'm wrong, this will best rated "FF" movie at 40-50%. The characters deserve more.

Nah, it's going higher than that. It will get into the 60- 70s at least.

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

Hiding this because it's off topic.

Spoiler

Yeah. Because after he left the X-Franchise **** all over itself with Last Stand and Origins.

Without him they don't/won't know what to do with these characters and movies. Especially now that Jackman will be leaving soon. As are, I think, Lawrence, McAvoy, and Fassbender(unless they give them waaaayyyy more money).

It's no surprise at all that once he came back, X-Men got HUGE again. First Class was only a stepping stone, and mildly better than the previous Singerless movies(didn't see Wolverine).

Deadpool is shaping up well because there's passion and love behind it(same passion that Singer had/has for X-Men).

This all happens pretty much despite FOX.

I agree with you. FOX generally does not make critically well-received CBM films. If you take Bryan Singer's contributions out of the equation, you are left with some of the following examples:

Fantastic Four (2005): 26%
Fantastic Four: Rise Of The Silver Surfer (2007): 37%
X-Men Origins: Wolverine (2009): 38%
X-Men: The Last Stand (2006): 58%
Daredevil (2003): 45%

All of them were "Rotten." And of course, we can't forget their most terribly received entry:

Elektra (2005): 10%

And that's just a sampling.

Now in contrast, Marvel doesn't have a track record like the above. Every single film they've released has been rated and/or certified "Fresh" by RT. So as was mentioned, passion plays a big role in making these movies crossover to the mainstream.

There is so much trouble behind this particular FF production and I sense a real lack of cohesion. Even if you have a one-hit director like Josh Trank, what happens when you have someone like Simon Kinberg (who was involved in some of the worst films listed above) AND FOX's micromanagement in the mix? Yeah.

Many of the certified reviewers for Rottentomatoes are self-proclaimed "fan-boys" and science-fiction fans. They won't be kind. I really believe this is going to be our first CBM critical failure in a long time, since...well, Fantastic Four: Rise Of The Silver Surfer in 2007 ironically enough.

 

[jaymes_e06]

I know. So was I.

I just think it's sad, that unless I'm wrong, this will best rated "FF" movie at 40-50%. The characters deserve more.

You got that right.

I'm genuinely sad though as I've said many times before the reruns of the old 60s cartoon are the first superhero show I ever experienced and were the reason I got into The X-Men, Spider-Man, Batman, Justice League etc.. It breaks my heart to know I wont be able to get the same feeling seeing these characters in live action likely ever.

This made my childhood.
[YT]BLw03JuxmGI[/YT]

 

[RAE072]

Slightly back on topic.

That's why I'd be surprised if a possible sequel FF used Singer. I think they know they have to move past Singer (at least hands on directing). He's given them a good blueprint.

Only way that happens, at all, is if this movie underperforms or SEVERELY flops.

And even then, it's no guarantee. FOX may very well just let it revert or sell it all at a VERY discount price. No point in continuing to try and continuing to sink millions into a franchise you've never produced a good movie with, no matter who's involved.

 

[Erzengel]

Nah, it's going higher than that. It will get into the 60- 70s at least.

This is going to 2 ways. Either, it's as you said, or some people will say, the critics have an axe to grind, don't know what they're talking about....etc.

 

[RAE072]

I agree with you. FOX generally does not make critically well-received CBM films. If you take Bryan Singer's contributions out of the equation, you are left with some of the following examples:

Fantastic Four (2005): 26%
Fantastic Four: Rise Of The Silver Surfer (2007): 37%
X-Men Origins: Wolverine (2009): 38%
X-Men: The Last Stand (2006): 58%
Daredevil (2003): 45%

All of them were "Rotten." And of course, we can't forget their most terribly received entry:

Elektra (2005): 10%

And that's just a sampling.

Now in contrast, Marvel doesn't have a track record like the above. Every single film they've released has been rated and/or certified "Fresh" by RT. So as was mentioned, passion plays a big role in making these movies crossover to the mainstream.

There is so much trouble behind this particular FF production and I sense a real lack of cohesion. Even if you have a one-hit director like Josh Trank, what happens when you have someone like Simon Kinberg (who was involved in some of the worst films listed above) AND FOX's micromanagement in the mix? Yeah.

Many of the certified reviewers for Rottentomatoes are self-proclaimed "fan-boys" and science-fiction fans. They won't be kind. I really believe this is going to be our first CBM critical failure in a long time, since...well, Fantastic Four: Rise Of The Silver Surfer in 2007 ironically enough.

Exactly.

And never mind the narrative out there that Trank wasn't even solely responsible for Chronicle's success.

Marvel Studios has a plan and they put people in charge with knowledge and passion for the characters they adapt.

Does it ALWAYS work out? Of course not. They're not perfect. Nobody is. Not even Pixar.

But since 2008, they've become friggin HUGE, and that's because they know what they're doing and put talented, creative, passionate people in charge of their stuff.

Based on track record alone, FOX can't say the same.

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

It'd be one thing if it had been 20 years since the last FF film. FOX didn't allow enough time for us to breathe after the last debacles (again, desperate and thirsty grabbing to retain rights). As a result, the audiences don't care. That's why a movie like Jurassic World can be so successful in 2015--the franchise had many years to quiet down, actually become missed and nostalgic to the audience and come back stronger than ever.

No one is missing the mess we got in 2004 and 2007 yet. Those films are still very fresh in the minds of many...including the critics. Many reviewers will undoubtedly look how they rated the first two FF films and compare this one to them. And just as the critically lauded X-Men: First Class still struggled as a result of the stain left behind by X-Men: The Last Stand, this film has not one---but TWO--stink bombs as predecessors.

Critics will not be kind methinks.

 

[Sithborg]

Spoiler

See? The second they brought him back, the franchise started to live again and then the second he started directing it was one of the biggest movies of the summer.

When he's gone? Oh man.

Same thing is happening here. FOX has/had no idea what to do with their comic book movies that DON'T involve Bryan Singer. First two FFs? Bad. Daredevil? Bad. LXG? Bad. Elektra? Bad. Singer-less X-Movies? Bad to mediocre at best(again, didn't see Wolverine).

And this one's looking to be the exact same way.

They have Mangold working on another Wolverine and Boone developing New Mutants. Not everyone is going to create gold. But, I would rather have them take risks with new creative talent rather than look for minions to tow the company line.

 

[RAE072]

They have Mangold working on another Wolverine and Boone developing New Mutants. Not everyone is going to create gold. But, I would rather have them take risks with new creative talent rather than look for minions to tow the company line.

Yes, James Gunn is certainly a minion towing the company line.

I can't find an eyeroll emoticon big enough.

 

[Krystal]

When and where is the World Premiere for this movie being held?

 

[Val_Zod]

I agree with you. FOX generally does not make critically well-received CBM films. If you take Bryan Singer's contributions out of the equation, you are left with some of the following examples:

Fantastic Four (2005): 26%
Fantastic Four: Rise Of The Silver Surfer (2007): 37%
X-Men Origins: Wolverine (2009): 38%
X-Men: The Last Stand (2006): 58%
Daredevil (2003): 45%

All of them were "Rotten." And of course, we can't forget their most terribly received entry:

Elektra (2005): 10%

And that's just a sampling.

Now in contrast, Marvel doesn't have a track record like the above. Every single film they've released has been rated and/or certified "Fresh" by RT. So as was mentioned, passion plays a big role in making these movies crossover to the mainstream.

There is so much trouble behind this particular FF production and I sense a real lack of cohesion. Even if you have a one-hit director like Josh Trank, what happens when you have someone like Simon Kinberg (who was involved in some of the worst films listed above) AND FOX's micromanagement in the mix? Yeah.

Many of the certified reviewers for Rottentomatoes are self-proclaimed "fan-boys" and science-fiction fans. They won't be kind. I really believe this is going to be our first CBM critical failure in a long time, since...well, Fantastic Four: Rise Of The Silver Surfer in 2007 ironically enough.

There's been several critical failures since ROTSS, though.

 

[Sithborg]

Yes, James Gunn is certainly a minion towing the company line.

I can't find an eyeroll emoticon big enough.

shrug

If you enjoy what Marvel is putting out, that is perfectly fine. Tastes are different. But to me, GOTG was just more of the same. My reaction to the MCU has been meh since TDW. Daredevil was finally something different. But nothing I've seen has shown me any of the upcoming movies will be any different. I am actively avoiding Ant-man, because I know I won't enjoy it. I love Edgar Wright, and what I've seen is that it is a Wright movie without Wright, much like AoS is a Whedon show without Whedon.

This movie was part of my malaise for non-X superhero movies. But, the trailer was able to get my interest. I don't care if others don't share my tastes. I acknowledge that my eclectic grouping of interests isn't in the majority.

 

[RAE072]

shrug

If you enjoy what Marvel is putting out, that is perfectly fine. Tastes are different. But to me, GOTG was just more of the same.

I'd rather take good movies that are "more of the same" than bad movies that are "more of the same."

FOX has an abundance of that.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

Wait.

You're expecting a 80-90% Rotten Tomato Meter rating for this film?

Ooh s***. I'm wiping tears from my eyes. Thank you.

He is clearly more optimistic than what I expect.
I'm thinking from 60-70% is quite possible.

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

If I had to guess I'd say around an Amazing Spider-Man 2/Man of Steel RT score. The critics don't seem as enamored with the Superhero movies this year in general and I see that trend continuing.