"Feel the Bern": The BERNIE SANDERS Thread - Part 1

[pr0xyt0xin]

I have in no way lost respect for Bernie. He's still absolutely my favored of the people still in the running. Like, no contest.

I am actually wholly bemused by those who faltered so quickly in support of him. I mean, we're still left with the same crap options when he's out of the running.

That being said, I've been forced to go back to not caring as much. It's mentally exhausting trying to incite a revolution when the odds get slimmer and slimmer.

In the end though, I still belong to the camp that says he should stay in it to the convention. Hillary probably won't be held accountable for her illegal/immoral actions. But when we have a frontrunner for presidential candidate that falls under the category of "well what she did wasn't technically illegal," I'll take any shred of hope i can get.

 

[Victarion]

I read some stuff about voters having their party affiliations switched to keep them from voting in the primaries. If this were part of some conspiracy by the DNC to beat Bernie, how would they know which voters to target? I don't understand this argument about people being blocked from voting because of party changes.

 

[pr0xyt0xin]

It's new voters/independents being turned away (due to NY's traditionally difficult primary restrictions) and counties favoring Bernie experiencing broken machines.

Not the most blatant suppression we've seen this year, but still a problem.

 

[OcStat]

I read some stuff about voters having their party affiliations switched to keep them from voting in the primaries. If this were part of some conspiracy by the DNC to beat Bernie, how would they know which voters to target? I don't understand this argument about people being blocked from voting because of party changes.

Operation Insight.

 

[Matt]

Yeah, I had no serious issues with him until he went on the attack long past the time it was clear he wouldn't win. People like to throw out that Clinton did the same thing eight years ago but I hated her then for it too. For some reason I expected Sanders to drop out or at least hold back the attacks after it was obvious tge delegate math wasn't in his favor. The desperation during the NY primary lowered my opinion of him significantly.

Yeah. Plus, in Clinton's defense, at least she stopped attacking, dropped out and endorsed once it became clear that she could not win. She was still mathematically in it at this point 2008. Sanders isn't.

 

[Matt]

I have in no way lost respect for Bernie. He's still absolutely my favored of the people still in the running. Like, no contest.

I am actually wholly bemused by those who faltered so quickly in support of him. I mean, we're still left with the same crap options when he's out of the running.

That being said, I've been forced to go back to not caring as much. It's mentally exhausting trying to incite a revolution when the odds get slimmer and slimmer.

In the end though, I still belong to the camp that says he should stay in it to the convention. Hillary probably won't be held accountable for her illegal/immoral actions. But when we have a frontrunner for presidential candidate that falls under the category of "well what she did wasn't technically illegal," I'll take any shred of hope i can get.

I think the reason people are becoming disillusioned is that Sanders is showing that he is exactly like everyone else.

 

[DDS]

That doesn't always matter, ie Reagan and Bush, there was certainly no love loss there....but it would be a mistake to go with Bernie, she needs someone that can bring in more of the independent voters that tend to be right of center. She doesn't need to bring in someone for the far left, they are going to vote for whomever the candidate is that has a (D) next to their name....they want to keep the White House so they will vote. But she has to pull in those just right of center people that are looking at Cruz and Trump and cringing...she can get those votes if she picks the right VP, and a far left liberal will not do that....

This is pretty true too. I think Matt's VP analysis was pretty solid.

 

[DJ_KiDDvIcIOUs]

Yeah. Plus, in Clinton's defense, at least she stopped attacking, dropped out and endorsed once it became clear that she could not win. She was still mathematically in it at this point 2008. Sanders isn't.

That' what irks me, if he was going to run on this moral superiority than he should have either stuck with that to the very end or been like the rest of them from the start. I would have respected either way much more. But this whole going for the jugular when he's down and out as a last ditch effort really turned me off for him. I know the system is broken and he does too but sometimes you have to fight like everyone else if you want to have a shot. Too little too late now.

 

[DDS]

If the primaries were only a month long or if my state were in February or early-mid March, I would have definitely voted for Bernie, but the longer this drags on the more I'm considering just giving Hillary my vote.

I don't like how his campaign has begun to reflect how some of his supporters are acting, how much the flaws in his planning have been exposed, as well as how little support he's given to down ticket Dems - which is really nuts, because he NEEDS a Dem congress to support him. But at the same time, I still like many of the things he's stood for during this campaign. It's more than a little conflicting.

Edit: 3,333rd post...neat.

 

[DJ_KiDDvIcIOUs]

I've always liked his ideas but I voted for him just to push Hillary to the left. I'm a pragmatist Dem like most of us who are in our 30's or late 20's. You have all the idiot young college kids whos first real election this is and they're the ones foaming at the mouth. They have yet to become jaded and learn just how wacked out the process really is haha.

 

[DDS]

I've always liked his ideas but I voted for him just to push Hillary to the left. I'm a pragmatist Dem like most of us who are in our 30's or late 20's. You have all the idiot young college kids whos first real election this is and they're the ones foaming at the mouth. They have yet to become jaded and learn just how wacked out the process really is haha.

Ha, I'm a 20 year old college student right now. Is is the process of becoming jaded?

 

[DJ_KiDDvIcIOUs]

Ha, I'm a 20 year old college student right now. Is is the process of becoming jaded?

Wait till you hit your 30's homie haha. I turned 18 with W in the white house and have hated the GOP with a passion ever since. Then after the mediocrity that was 2 terms of Obama I'm officially jaded and cynical. At this point, I'm okay with the fact that no real meaningful change will probably happen in my lifetime and I just have to vote for the lesser of two evils. Such is life.

 

[DDS]

Wait till you hit your 30's homie haha. I turned 18 with W in the white house and have hated the GOP with a passion ever since. Then after the mediocrity that was 2 terms of Obama I'm officially jaded and cynical. At this point, I'm okay with the fact that no real meaningful change will probably happen in my lifetime and I just have to vote for the lesser of two evils. Such is life.

I would say not all but certainly a lot of Obama's problems stemmed from a Congress that was often unwilling to work with him, formed in part by tons of his supporters staying home during mid term elections. I plan on supporting Dems in mid terms.

 

[Victarion]

That' what irks me, if he was going to run on this moral superiority than he should have either stuck with that to the very end or been like the rest of them from the start. I would have respected either way much more. But this whole going for the jugular when he's down and out as a last ditch effort really turned me off for him. I know the system is broken and he does too but sometimes you have to fight like everyone else if you want to have a shot. Too little too late now.

I'm on the fence when it comes to this tactic. I completely see where you're coming from, DJ. For myself, I would stand behind a candidate that champions something I'm passionate about, but that also shows the initiative and drive to play the game as it has to be played in order to get in office. A sacrifice in the short term for something greater in the long term.

I've watched a few of Bernie's rallies on Youtube. In some of the later ones, I noticed where he started to talk about "those Americans", either in reference to the voters in the Republican camp or Hillary's camp. It came across as unnecessarily divisive at a point in the campaign where he needed to unite as many behind him as possible. I think that probably hurt him more than going for the throat vs Hillary and the others.

 

[DJ_KiDDvIcIOUs]

I would say not all but certainly a lot of Obama's problems stemmed from a Congress that was often unwilling to work with him, formed in part by tons of his supporters staying home during mid term elections. I plan on supporting Dems in mid terms.

I've been doing that for years and sadly to many people are too dumb to realize they need to vote every 2 years. That's why my dumbass state (FL) went for Obama twice yet we can get these idiot republicans out of the Governorship and other state positions.

I'm on the fence when it comes to this tactic. I completely see where you're coming from, DJ. For myself, I would stand behind a candidate that champions something I'm passionate about, but that also shows the initiative and drive to play the game as it has to be played in order to get in office. A sacrifice in the short term for something greater in the long term.

I've watched a few of Bernie's rallies on Youtube. In some of the later ones, I noticed where he started to talk about "those Americans", either in reference to the voters in the Republican camp or Hillary's camp. It came across as unnecessarily divisive at a point in the campaign where he needed to unite as many behind him as possible. I think that probably hurt him more than going for the throat vs Hillary and the others.

Ya it just seems as of late he's delusional and getting bitter that the math isn't in his favor. He came in thinking he didn't have a shot in hell and now that it's proven true but he's ben able to amass a large base to turn out for him he doesn't want to let go of the limelight.

 

[Schlosser85]

I voted for Bernie in the primary and I still prefer him over Clinton, but I'm getting increasingly exasperated with these diehard all or nothing Bernie supporters who keep constantly trashing Hillary day in and day out.

Dems need to be pragmatic and the divisiveness needs to end.

 

[summerteeth]

There is no guarantee your employer will always pay for your health insurance or that you will always have that job. At least with medicaire for all your access to medical care isnt tied up in your employment. Id pay 2.2% out of my paycheck if it guaranteed I wouldnt lose my health insurance if I were laid off or fired or had to quit my job.

Well now we are talking hypotheticals. Anyways, isn't that what the ACA is for? So it doesn't really seem necessary for me. Right now his plan would act as a tax increase on me and he says people need to pay their fair share and then takes as many deductions to drive down his tax rate. I don't have a problem with that from someone else, but from him it seems rather hypocritical. That's the point I'm trying to make.

 

[Martha]

Voted for Bernie in my primary. My view: the time to be an idealist is during the primary process. If your candidate doesn't get the nomination, then it's time to put the idealism aside and be practical. I may not take my Sanders sticker off my car, but it's obvious that he no longer stands a chance at winning. It's time to unite around which candidate is the best for the country, and even though I despise Clinton she's light year better than the alternative (in my opinion).

 

[Hypestyle]

I'm sick of being "pragmatic". I'm stick of the sellouts. I'm sick of the right-leaning DINO culture that doesn't care about the inner cities at all. I don't care anymore. I'll vote but I'm not remotely looking forward to the next four years, regardless of Clinton or Trump/Cruz. I don't respect these people at all. The overall system blows.

 

[Matt]

I voted for Bernie in the primary and I still prefer him over Clinton, but I'm getting increasingly exasperated with these diehard all or nothing Bernie supporters who keep constantly trashing Hillary day in and day out.

Dems need to be pragmatic and the divisiveness needs to end.

I think a big problem you're having is that the candidate has been implicitly encouraging this all or nothing mentality. Hell, past couple weeks he has been explicitly encouraging it.

 

[DJ_KiDDvIcIOUs]

I'm sick of being "pragmatic". I'm stick of the sellouts. I'm sick of the right-leaning DINO culture that doesn't care about the inner cities at all. I don't care anymore. I'll vote but I'm not remotely looking forward to the next four years, regardless of Clinton or Trump/Cruz. I don't respect these people at all. The overall system blows.

Welcome to the American political machine my friend. Sadly, this is probably as good as it's going to get.

 

[Matt]

I'm sick of being "pragmatic". I'm stick of the sellouts. I'm sick of the right-leaning DINO culture that doesn't care about the inner cities at all. I don't care anymore. I'll vote but I'm not remotely looking forward to the next four years, regardless of Clinton or Trump/Cruz. I don't respect these people at all. The overall system blows.

This is the type of foolish mentality that Sanders encourages. Clinton is pragmatic and works with Wall Street (as she should, trading, banking, etc is all legal). Being a broker or banker doesn't make you intrinsically evil and the President should be working with leaders of these industries to promote responsible economic growth, rather than demonizing an entire industry/class of people. But I digress, Clinton is far from a "right leaning DINO." She was ranked as the 11th most libera senator during her tenure.

 

[souvlaki]

Yeah, democrats are starting to sound like tea partiers. Hillary ran to the left of Obama on a lot of issues in 2008. This DINO talk is nonsense. Running to the far left and having an all or nothing attitude w itch no compromise is what got Republicans in the mess they are in now. And I say that an extremely liberal borderline socialist so its not like I'm some centrist blue dog. I just have a realistic view of what our country can do in a divided country with extreme views on both ends of the spectrum.

 

[Matt]

On Becoming Anti-Bernie

Everyone should read this article. It destroys the hypocrisy of the Sanders campaign and calls out every lie and half-truth his campaign has been built upon. It is well worth the read.

 

[Victarion]

I'm sick of being "pragmatic". I'm stick of the sellouts. I'm sick of the right-leaning DINO culture that doesn't care about the inner cities at all. I don't care anymore. I'll vote but I'm not remotely looking forward to the next four years, regardless of Clinton or Trump/Cruz. I don't respect these people at all. The overall system blows.

Bernie could continue to make himself known to the Democratic Party in a Sarah Palin/Tea Party figure kind of way. A force seeking change from within the party. If the current crop of Republican candidates are any indication, this kind of approach will eventually produce results.