"Feel the Bern": The BERNIE SANDERS Thread - Part 1

[DDS]

And? She is entitled to her vote.

Never said she wasn't. I also am entitled to say and think November is not the time for a protest vote unless you plainly want Trump to win, and that the Bernie or Bust crowd is becoming cult-like.

 

[craigdbfan]

I would much prefer a Bernie vs Trump general election. **** Hillary.

Get the establishments **** out of this election and for once we'll have a "real" election.

Even knowing Bernie may have a much better chance than Hillary, I would be far, far, far more content losing to Bernie (because I agree with a good deal of his foreign policy) than to Hillary who will continue the United States wholesale.

 

[marvelrobbins]

as bernie supporter let me say this isn't cult of personality.many of us don't like Clinton
on the issues.she's a closet republican.and the tactics establishment used against him
borders on voter fraud and suppression.

for awhile now i suspected clinton will succeed in stealing nomination but i say stay in till convention.

myself i say stay home on election day.a choice between clinton and trump isn't a choice.And i am lifelong democrat.part of me while i won't vote for trump almost wishes he beats her as payback for how bernie and his supporters have been treated.
I would rather the real republican win instead of republican who passes herself off as democrat.

regardless Trump could win the GE against clinton.independents don't like her.and some dems who supported bernie won't vote for her.and trump on some issues may run to her left.Clinton is most right wing choice dems could ever go with.I say this primary season has exposed dems are not a progressive party.supporting clinton as they have exposed them as corporate neocon party.republicans are extreme right wing.Although honestly i don't know where trump fits in.

 

[Matt]

What did ross perot really accomplish?

The internet is changing things but we aren't there yet

Your question underlines your ignorance. Ross Perot, as a third party candidate captured nearly 20 % of the popular vote. There is a very good chance he would've won the popular vote in 1992 if he did not withdraw from the race in July and then decide to re-enter in October. If you do not see the relevance in that you are choosing to be ignorant rather than just being the misinformed blowhard you appear.

It goes to show the myth of needing to be a member of a political party to garner attention. Granted, Ross Perot was a self-funded billionaire who could afford to run a race on par with the major candidates. But if anything, Sanders has proven a fringe candidate with the right message can raise money through grassroots methods.

My point is, Perot showed that a third party candidate with the right message can compete. People who buy into the myth that third parties are not viable simply cannot get past the fact that there simply hasn't been any very good third party candidates since Perot. Ralph Nader was an old coot who never had mainstream appeal. Gary Johnson's message never caught on, largely due to the fact that it was tailored to young conservatives, a group that, largely, does not exist (at least not in prominent numbers). The right third party candidate could easily redo or exceed what Perot did.

 

[Matt]

I would much prefer a Bernie vs Trump general election. **** Hillary.

Get the establishments **** out of this election and for once we'll have a "real" election.

Even knowing Bernie may have a much better chance than Hillary, I would be far, far, far more content losing to Bernie (because I agree with a good deal of his foreign policy) than to Hillary who will continue the United States wholesale.

The idea that Trump and Sanders are not part of the "establishment" (which has become a ridiculously overused term) is absurd.

Sanders has been in Congress for 30 years. Not only is he part of the establishment, he is the worst kind of establishment politician; an incompetent one. He is woefully inept at getting what he promises done. He has sponsored three pieces of successful legislation in thirty years, two of which simply rename post offices. He is ingrained in Congress. He is the exact type of career politician people despise. He appeals to a niche voting group in a very small state, which allows him to keep his position. He uses that position to do nothing more than cast protest votes in Congress and collect a paycheck. Isn't this the exact type of inept, insider Washington politician that Americans seem to collectively despise? Does he get a pass because he is completely inept and has done nothing of relevance in those 30 years?

As for Trump...in the first debate he bragged about how he has essentially bought every politician on stage. He has used his campaign to continuously rail against "the establishment" by bragging about how he buys politicians. If he we accept that Hillary, Jeb, Rubio, etc are the "crooked establishment" and we also accept Trump at his word, then he is the guy who is BRIBING THE ESTABLISHMENT. He is pulling their strings. So rather than having the "establishment" puppets, you have the puppet master who has been giving these guys orders? How is that better?

as bernie supporter let me say this isn't cult of personality.many of us don't like Clinton
on the issues.she's a closet republican.and the tactics establishment used against him
borders on voter fraud and suppression.

Hillary was ranked, through a statistical measure, the 11th most liberal senator in Congress during her tenure. Hardly a "republican." Further, show any concrete proof of the Clinton campaign committing voter fraud or suppression, please.

This is why people find Sanders supporters to be so obnoxious. Your guy ran a good campaign, exceeded expectations. But he lost. The majority of Democrats simply did not buy into what he was selling. Therefore, he lost. It is really that simple. No conspiracy, no suppression, no corruption. The simple fact is that majority of the party and Americans did not want your "revolution."

 

[craigdbfan]

Trump openly admits to play the lobbying game. No crime there as it's the only game that works in Washington. You know that Matt.

 

[Matt]

Trump openly admits to play the lobbying game. No crime there as it's the only game that works in Washington. You know that Matt.

So it is okay that he exploited the so-called corruption and used it to his advantage and for self-gain? That doesn't make him part of the "establishment"? He is the guy who took advantage of the "crookedness" that is Hillary Clinton but that some how makes him better than her and worthy of leading our country? Uh huh.

 

[craigdbfan]

He was working/greasing up the politicians (they made the choice to sell out) so he could further his own business. Every single major company in the U.S uses lobbying, so again that argument holds very little merit. It's the current system in place and Trump has repeatedly said it's a rigged system and that he himself has benefited from it.

He doesn't care about changing the whole lobbying system if he becomes president because it doesn't provide any use to him anymore. It's utterly selfish on his part and puts all those other companies at a disadvantage but indirectly he'll be cleaning up the system.

 

[Matt]

He was working/greasing up the politicians (they made the choice to sell out) so he could further his own business. Every single major company in the U.S uses lobbying, so again that argument holds very little merit. It's the current system in place and Trump has repeatedly said it's a rigged system and that he himself has benefited from it.

Just because he has acknowledged it doesn't mean the argument holds "very little merit.' There is an inherent hypocrisy to saying "this system is corrupt, I've profited off of this corrupt system immensely. But its unfair so now that I have made billions of dollars I am going to close it off to everyone else." Basically, he is saying that bribery is wrong...but as the briber he is in the best position to fix the bribery problem. That argument has merit to you?

 

[craigdbfan]

Yeah.

It's that or pick the woman who took the bribes and plans on doing nothing to stop said bribery system.

 

[Matt]

Yeah.

It's that or pick the woman who took the bribes and plans on doing nothing to stop said bribery system.

So when Clinton plays by the rules, she is "crooked." When Trump does it, he is a better alternative for president? Bit of a double standard there.

 

[craigdbfan]

He's paying lobbyist so he can build and create. Look at the awesome job he did in the Old Post office building on Pennsylvania Ave. The man did a great job and probably did some lobbying to get favor on building and acquisition. If anything he did them a favor as that building/refurbishing project was stagnating and kind of going nowhere. By doing this he created jobs by building and will further employ hundreds in this international hotel.

Hillary just fills her pockets to the highest bidder. For some reason there's far less honor in that.

I guess one could say that this type of system can prove itself to be beneficial. I'm not going to be a complete hypocrite and say there aren't some major pros to both the business owner, politician and even us plebs when it's done fairly.

 

[enterthemadness]

Never said she wasn't. I also am entitled to say and think November is not the time for a protest vote unless you plainly want Trump to win, and that the Bernie or Bust crowd is becoming cult-like.

That is true. And I will counter that with people say it's never a good time for a protest vote.

 

[Victarion]

I got in an argument with my Bernie or Bust sister yesterday, and I finally realized what talking politics to people like that is like. It's like trying to talk skeptically about God to an evangelist.

She is vowing to write Bernie's name in even if he's not the nominee in November. I kept trying to tell her that only helps Trump. These people don't give a ****. They will follow their leader to the ends of the Earth, and Hillary is their devil.

Sometimes experience is the best teacher.

 

[DDS]

That is true. And I will counter that with people say it's never a good time for a protest vote.

I think if someone considers voting for Bernie in the primary a "protest vote" that's fine. But writing his name in for the general like I've been hearing is pointless, at best.

 

[Matt]

That is true. And I will counter that with people say it's never a good time for a protest vote.

I think there is a very big difference between casting a protest vote in an election like Romney vs Obama and casting a protest vote in an election where the Republican nominee has openly stated that he wants to carpet bomb the families of enemy combatants, intern Muslims, and imprison women who have abortions.

 

[DDS]

I think there is a very big difference between casting a protest vote in an election like Romney vs Obama and casting a protest vote in an election where the Republican nominee has openly stated that he wants to carpet bomb the families of enemy combatants, intern Muslims, and imprison women who have abortions.

Exactly. My sister quite literally said she would write in Bernie, and that "If trump wins I hope this country burns to the ground and people see what they've done.”

No sense of compromise or practical efforts for progress for BoB-ers. Just protest that could actually do more damage than not.

 

[Schlosser85]

I think there is a very big difference between casting a protest vote in an election like Romney vs Obama and casting a protest vote in an election where the Republican nominee has openly stated that he wants to carpet bomb the families of enemy combatants, intern Muslims, and imprison women who have abortions.

Exactly how I feel. The idea of President Trump should be frightening to any rational person.

 

[DDS]

Exactly how I feel. The idea of President Trump should be frightening to any rational person.

And I also got called a spineless coward for saying basically this too.

 

[craigdbfan]

The idea of president Crooked Hillary should be frightening to any rational person.

See how easy that is to do.

 

[Matt]

Exactly. My sister quite literally said she would write in Bernie, and that "If trump wins I hope this country burns to the ground and people see what they've done.”

No sense of compromise or practical efforts for progress for BoB-ers. Just protest that could actually do more damage than not.

Its funny because I have heard almost every Bernie Bro say this season how broken the two party system is and call for the rise of third parties. But the irony is, in a multiple party system, parties have to compromise to form coalitions...yet this is a concept BoB people just don't seem to comprehend.

 

[Matt]

The idea of president Crooked Hillary should be frightening to any rational person.

See how easy that is to do.

Show me where "Crooked Hilary" has said she will bomb civilians and non-combatants. Show me where "Crooked Hillary" has spoken out in favor of internment of an ethnicity. Show me where "Crooked Hillary" has suggested prison sentences for exercising constitutional rights. Show me where "Crooked Hillary" has encouraged her supporters to exercise violence. Show me where "Crooked Hillary" appointed a neo-Nazi leader to her delegation.

Let's see how easy that one is to do.

 

[craigdbfan]

Show me where Donald Trump has been responsible for the deaths of millions for being part of this broken hegemony/gang in Washington?

Crooked Hillary vs Donald Trump the patriot/nationalist. I know who I'm for.

Trump is right that radical Islamic terrorism poses a major threat to western civilization. Honestly all the Abrahamic religions do inherently as they're are vestiges of a more primitive time.

The problem is that Islam has radicalized and the "moderates" hardly do enough to admonish it because they agree with the foundations that are objectively cruel against women, gays, other religions and the list goes on. They are ridiculous conservative in that regard but pose a thread because of a highly militarized wing which is far and widely spread throughout the globe. One can't simply say let and let live because their ideology doesn't accept, and completely rejects every single stance of western society.

We see elements of this in Christianity and to some degree in Judaism but nowhere near the likes of Islam.

So for me it's just common sense. The Abrahamic religions have ravaged this world for hundreds of year. Ending the final radical wing of this masquerading humanitarian atrocity hiding behind the veil of religion is as clear as day for anyone honest enough to say it.

My world view is one where religion and state are completely separate at all costs. Which is why I'm completely against that stupid bill in North Carolina because it's being placed because of radical Christian beliefs instead of true progressive and rational thought.

 

[Thundercrack85]

You really think the guy who talks about torture, killing families, using nuclear weapons as a threat and carpet bombing isn't going to kill millions?

 

[craigdbfan]

Ideologies that are actively practiced that don't comply with western civilization (the civilization that is responsible for what you're typing on, wearing, speaking, and even eating) have no place on this planet.

Islam, Christianity and Judaism quite honestly all fall in that group for me it just so happens that the latter two have become far more subdued. It's Islam that still hasn't been able to neuter that radicalized and highly dangerous wing.

My problem isn't even with the Middle East as I hold it to actually be the cradle of modern day western civilization. Take a look at the Achaemenid Empire and even early Muslim societies showed more grace than early Christianity and Judaism but somewhere along the line the religion sheltered a highly dangerous armed/radical wing and went completely off kilter.

My problem is that the worst and most dangerous elements of the religion have taken a whole region under a stranglehold when their history before Islam is leagues more impressive and worth admiration not this horribly vestige of a darker time.