"Feel the Bern": The BERNIE SANDERS Thread - Part 2

[TheCommissioner]

production, materials, staffing

medical supply companies make bank because they can get away with charging whatever they want for supplies and equipment because its a need

 

[Matt]

I love Bernie and I still think he would be the best candidate to push our country in the direction I'd like to see. Having said that, he really should concede at this point and work with Hillary to beat Trump. He can keep pushing forward his message in other ways, but I'm incredibly grateful that he was able to get Americans to rethink our priorities and broken systems. I truly hope he doesn't go independent, that would be a disaster if the goal truly is to beat Trump.

I still think it's funny that in the US, Bernie is far left and Hillary is to the left, when in Europe/most other first world countries, Bernie is center left and Hillary is center right. Hillary definitely doesn't appear to be the candidate who will push progressive ideas, but who knows, it's really hard to get a handle on what she actually believes since she's always switching it up to fit the popular idea of the day.

What works in Europe does not work in America.

America is a far more diverse country than any European country. Where as those countries are primarily made up of the ethnic groups of the original country with a shared baseline culture and ideals, we are a much more diverse country due to having been founded as a melting pot. We have hundreds of different cultures and ideas being mixed about here. It makes our political spectrum much larger than a European country's. BEyond that, our population and geographic size is much larger than any European country. Single-payer can work in a small European country. It can't work when the government has to insure 350 million Americans.

 

[DJ_KiDDvIcIOUs]

What's the rationale behind these costs - production, R&D...?

production, materials, staffing

medical supply companies make bank because they can get away with charging whatever they want for supplies and equipment because its a need

It stems from the broken healthcare system itself. Essentially, for decades, the hospitals would charge higher and higher prices to help offset cost for those without insurance. The insurance companies never paid these prices, they negotiate. The problem arises when those without insurance get billed they have to eat the whole thing or have it go against their credit for non-payment. Obamacare does not address these issues directly. These are the same products you can get at reasonable prices in any Walmart or Walgreens yet they are still in the practice of doing outrageous billing to offset cost.

 

[TheBat812]

What works in Europe does not work in America.

America is a far more diverse country than any European country. Where as those countries are primarily made up of the ethnic groups of the original country with a shared baseline culture and ideals, we are a much more diverse country due to having been founded as a melting pot. We have hundreds of different cultures and ideas being mixed about here. It makes our political spectrum much larger than a European country's. BEyond that, our population and geographic size is much larger than any European country. Single-payer can work in a small European country. It can't work when the government has to insure 350 million Americans.

Obviously a direct translation wouldn't work correctly, but the idea of single payer is absolutely the right direction to go. As others are saying, the first priority is to change the American relationship with the pharmaceutical industry and stop overcharging for everything. Then single payer CAN work. Our systems are broken and thus maybe you're right that we won't do it with the current way things operate here - but that doesn't mean we can't in the long run if things are done right.

Also, for a country that's 'more diverse', why do we have way fewer voting options? What we're seeing in this election is actually a move more towards European systems where instead of just two parties, you saw a want for 4. "Far left" with Bernie, "Center left" with Clinton, and two different kinds of the right with the religious right and authoritarian right.

Americans are SO narrow minded. America can be so much better than it is in so many ways, and Europe, as an older set of countries are definitely more 'evolved' culturally, while America is still a teenager in its ways. To say 'such and such can't work' is right in a literal way based on the way America runs now, but to dismiss the potential positives of evolving/incorporating other types of systems into ours is silly and not forward thinking at all.

 

[Victarion]

The question that needs be asked alongside the statement that American can be better - does it want to be better in the areas that you're discussing, or would you essentially be dragging this great child, kicking and screaming, into something it doesn't want? Its a hard question to ask, but one that we have to ask moving forward.

As far as our relationship with the big pharma boogeyman goes, I would suggest we look at the costs of R and D and move forward from there. Keep what works, change what doesn't. There's no reason to throw out the baby with the bathwater.

 

[DJ_KiDDvIcIOUs]

The problem is that capitalism encourages maximized profits at the expense of all else. Sure there are companies out there that care about and take care fo their employees but for the most part, they are the minority. One of my fave political cartoons of recent memory is an old man sitting with his children in the aftermath of the Apocalypse and said, "Boy, you should have seen our profit margins though".

Sums it up rather nicely. You have way too many folks not thinking past their own lives instead of future generations.

 

[TheBat812]

The question that needs be asked alongside the statement that American can be better - does it want to be better in the areas that you're discussing, or would you essentially be dragging this great child, kicking and screaming, into something it doesn't want? Its a hard question to ask, but one that we have to ask moving forward.

As far as our relationship with the big pharma boogeyman goes, I would suggest we look at the costs of R and D and move forward from there. Keep what works, change what doesn't. There's no reason to throw out the baby with the bathwater.

I agree, these are the issues we must confront as a nation, and have real political discourse about, rather than partisan nonsense that simply divides us.

Based on the history of Western civilization though, America's next step is to move towards more progressive systems. That bubble of wealth from the 40's until the recession is over, and based on the success of Bernie's campaign (and in a similar way, Trump's success), a want for change is a-brewin. And for exactly the reason that DJ just said, capitalism NEEDS socialist ideas (and vice versa) to truly be effective for people. We badly need a culture change that prioritizes American citizens over wealth accumulation.

 

[Marvolo]

The question that needs be asked alongside the statement that American can be better - does it want to be better in the areas that you're discussing, or would you essentially be dragging this great child, kicking and screaming, into something it doesn't want? Its a hard question to ask, but one that we have to ask moving forward.

As far as our relationship with the big pharma boogeyman goes, I would suggest we look at the costs of R and D and move forward from there. Keep what works, change what doesn't. There's no reason to throw out the baby with the bathwater.

When I was a child if I had kicked and screamed cause I didnt want to do something my dad would have busted my ass and I would have done as I was told.

 

[TheBat812]

When I was a child if I had kicked and screamed cause I didnt want to do something my dad would have busted my ass and I would have done as I was told.

Not to mention, people have had to be dragged kicking and screaming in regards to giving rights to people throughout history. The right to free healthcare and good affordable education is available in pretty much every single other first world country, and America will follow - it's not a question of if, but of when.

 

[Marvolo]

Bernie Sanders Vows To Go All In Against Trump After Obama Meeting

But he plans to compete for votes in the upcoming D.C. primary.

Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) said Thursday that he is committed to preventing Donald Trump from winning the presidency and plans to meet with presumptive Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton to discuss his role in the general election effort.

Delivering brief remarks to the press after meeting with President Barack Obama at the White House, Sanders suggested he is ready to cooperate with the Democratic Party in a general election in which he is not the party’s nominee, even as he declined to formally concede the race to Clinton.

Sanders said he had called Clinton on Tuesday night to congratulate her on her election wins.

“I look forward to meeting with her in the near future to see how we can work together to defeat Donald Trump and to create a government which represents all of us and not just the 1 percent,” he said.

Obama released a video endorsing Clinton shortly after his meeting with the Vermont senator.

Sanders appeared to be in high spirits after speaking with Obama, sharing a laugh as he walked with the president to a lectern on the White House grounds. Sanders’ wife, Jane, stood close by.

He thanked Obama and Vice President Joe Biden for the “degree of impartiality” they showed during the primary process.

Sanders did not repeat his previous plans to continue seeking the support of superdelegates, a Hail Mary move that could set up a bitter fight at the Democratic National Convention in Philadelphia in July. He said, however, that he would “take” his policy priorities — such as expanding Social Security and alleviating poverty — to the convention.

The Democratic presidential candidate reaffirmed his disdain for Trump, the presumptive Republican nominee, calling the prospect of a Trump presidency a “disaster.”

“Needless to say, I am going to do everything in my power, and I will work as hard as I can, to make sure that Donald Trump does not become president of the United States,” Sanders said.

Nonetheless, Sanders confirmed his intention to campaign for the District of Columbia primary on Tuesday. He plans to emphasize his support for giving the District of Columbia statehood.

“The state of Vermont, which I represent, has about the same amount of residents as Washington, D.C., has except we have two United States senators and one congressman with full rights, while D.C. does not,” he said.

Sanders has long expressed his support for D.C. statehood. Clinton also backs the idea.


Sanders, who requested the White House meeting, met with the president for over an hour. White House press secretary Josh Earnest said Obama complimented Sanders on his electoral success and discussed ways they can work together to harness the excitement Sanders has inspired to ensure the Democratic Party is as diverse and dynamic as possible.

Bringing more people into the Democratic Party “has been a longstanding goal of President Obama and obviously President Obama had his own success in building a coalition that involved a lot of young Americans and not all Democrats,” Earnest said. “Sen. Sanders built on that progress."

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5759a0b5e4b0e39a28acca85

 

[Dasher10]

Bernie Sanders Vows To Go All In Against Trump After Obama Meeting

But he plans to compete for votes in the upcoming D.C. primary.

He needs to concede after DC. It's over. He lost.

 

[souvlaki]

He needs to concede after DC. It's over. He lost.

This is probably one of several times I've said this this campaign season but I really dont think he is stubborn enough to carry on after DC. The writing is on the wall and he's overplayed his hand already. Carrying on past DC will just show diminishing returns on the platform he hopes to advance the longer he stays in.

 

[TheBat812]

Ya, I think he's already showing that's his plan. But I also think it's right for him to allow citizens to cast their votes for what they want and believe.

Sounds like he's doing the right thing in respect to the movement he's begun but also in regards to starting to unite the party.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

The united front of Hillary, Bernie, Warren and Obama will be quite powerful.

If they all stump for Hillary through November, it will be alot for Trump to neutralize.

 

[Matt]

The united front of Hillary, Bernie, Warren and Obama will be quite powerful.

If they all stump for Hillary through November, it will be alot for Trump to neutralize.

I am very skeptical about how much Sanders will campaign for Clinton. He hasn't promised he would do so. He has said he will oppose Trump. His wording is very vague. It doesn't even preclude him jumping on the Green Party Ticket (apparently Jill Stein has offered him the VP spot). I basically think he will take his ball and go home if he loses. Despite his talk, I don't see him becoming a Clinton surrogate. Maybe a begrudging rally or two when she stops in Vermont, but not much beyond that.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

I am very skeptical about how much Sanders will campaign for Clinton. He hasn't promised he would do so. He has said he will oppose Trump. His wording is very vague. It doesn't even preclude him jumping on the Green Party Ticket (apparently Jill Stein has offered him the VP spot). I basically think he will take his ball and go home if he loses. Despite his talk, I don't see him becoming a Clinton surrogate. Maybe a begrudging rally or two when she stops in Vermont, but not much beyond that.

I'd be shocked if Bernie doesn't give a speech at the democratic convention attacking Trump and uniting the party.

There's alot of time between now and then for Bernie to come in terms with reality.

 

[Victarion]

I think he'll come around to using his platform at the DNC to play the long game, rather than continuing to try making a case for him being the nominee.

 

[souvlaki]

I am very skeptical about how much Sanders will campaign for Clinton. He hasn't promised he would do so. He has said he will oppose Trump. His wording is very vague. It doesn't even preclude him jumping on the Green Party Ticket (apparently Jill Stein has offered him the VP spot). I basically think he will take his ball and go home if he loses. Despite his talk, I don't see him becoming a Clinton surrogate. Maybe a begrudging rally or two when she stops in Vermont, but not much beyond that.

Hes not going to flush his career down the toilet by running on a third party ticket. Warren basically implied last night that Reid would offer him and his platform more influence in the Senate and DNC if he switched party affiliation after the election. He can either go back to the Senate with a ton of influence or become the next Nader and set back all the progress he's supposedly working for for years. Seems like an easy decision. I take him at his word that he could ill do everything he can to keep Trump out of the White House and I just dont think he's naive enough to think running third party is a way to do that.

 

[chaseter]

He has no long game...he's too old. This is it.

 

[auditor]

Hillary has been the single biggest target of the GOP for almost 30 years. Still not even one instance of her getting caught taking a position on an issue because of a bribe. Looks like Bernie was wrong about her.

 

[chaseter]

Campaign donations are bribes:
http://www.wsj.com/articles/financial-sector-gives-hillary-clinton-a-boost-1462750725

If you think she is going to reform Wall Street then lol. She'll talk the talk to appease the masses but she's in Wall Street's pockets.

The Clinton Foundation is just a bribery non-profit shell game riddled with corruption: http://nypost.com/2016/05/15/hillary-hounded-by-past-scandals-as-new-charity-questions-emerge/

Bribery is easy to find. Illegal bribery is another story. She's smarter than that but still a lying, conniving, opportunist, horrible, horrible person.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Campaign donations are bribes:
http://www.wsj.com/articles/financial-sector-gives-hillary-clinton-a-boost-1462750725

If you think she is going to reform Wall Street then lol. She'll talk the talk to appease the masses but she's in Wall Street's pockets.

The Clinton Foundation is just a bribery non-profit shell game riddled with corruption: http://nypost.com/2016/05/15/hillary-hounded-by-past-scandals-as-new-charity-questions-emerge/

Bribery is easy to find. Illegal bribery is another story. She's smarter than that but still a lying, conniving, opportunist, horrible, horrible person.

Horrible compared to a saintly politician who never took Wall Street money or the average politician who has no problem rubbing elbows with countless lobbyists?

 

[chaseter]

Are you saying because most do it, it's alright to let her slide? That sure sounds like a great reason to vote for Hillary because she's looking out for the 99%of bankers that support her.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

I'm just being realistic.

Corporate donors are part of the game.

We don't live in a perfect world where politicians are motivated by puppies and rainbows.

 

[chaseter]

That's the spirit!