"Final Curtain" Season 2: Episode 26 Discussion Thread

[Ratcrawler]

Bravo.

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

Originally in the comics, Spidey had to travel to Florida for the Lizard. Curt was doing research down there and Originally he transformed there. He came to NY for some odd reason. So with Curt out, we can see Gwen and Warren becoming closer due to them working more closely together.... anybody see what i see coming?

Oh, yes, I really sort of do. I really think it's starting to become likely.

 

[Rincewind]

A great way to end the Season. The bad thing is that now starts the Long Wait for the next one, but, eh, that's life

Spoiler

Okay, so my theory that Harry dons the mask and Norman makes the plans was wrong. Norman was the Goblin all along and went so far that he framed his own son. That's classic Norman there.

What I didn't get was why he faked a limp in Season 1. He couldn't have known that he would find Harry unconscious to frame him.

Harry is becoming a bit too sly for his own good. All in all, Pete got screwed. He broke up with Liz, but didn't get Gwen. Which, in a way, is kinda fair. But it's not too good for Gwen herself that she remained close to an Osborn. They are not a healthy company, these folks.

I can only pray that we will get a Season 3. This show is far too good.

 

[whiplash]

A great way to end the Season. The bad thing is that now starts the Long Wait for the next one, but, eh, that's life

Spoiler

Okay, so my theory that Harry dons the mask and Norman makes the plans was wrong. Norman was the Goblin all along and went so far that he framed his own son. That's classic Norman there.

What I didn't get was why he faked a limp in Season 1. He couldn't have known that he would find Harry unconscious to frame him.

Harry is becoming a bit too sly for his own good. All in all, Pete got screwed. He broke up with Liz, but didn't get Gwen. Which, in a way, is kinda fair. But it's not too good for Gwen herself that she remained close to an Osborn. They are not a healthy company, these folks.

I can only pray that we will get a Season 3. This show is far too good.

Unless Harry passed out while he was still @ the house.........unlikely but possible. Harry could have been set up from the time that he talked to pete on the phone. The limp could've been added as a last minute thing. I mean if in Comic continuity, Tony Stark can Patch up MJ just after having her arm broken, Norman would have access to some of the same tech

 

[Webhead2006]

Well been offline for a few hrs so i had to catch up with all the talks you guys have been talking about for the episode. Right now i am loadin the veoh link joker posted earlier. Thanks for the link man. Cant wait to see how everything unfolds for myself. Will talk about how i felt about the episode later today(wensday) after all my classes and all that.

 

[anarchistguy]

I just saw this episode.

Spoiler

THIS incarnation of Norman Osborn is the most TWISTED one yet (aside from the comics, of course :P). Calling him a piece of s-h-i-t would be the understatement of the DECADE!!!

 

[Jick]

[email protected] episode!
It's as intense and good as last seasons's finale, if not better! But certainly one of the best episodes of the season and the show.
It get me on edge since the very beginning, crazy to see the goblin unmasked. The scene with Spidey on the balcony and all those bombs beneath him exploding made me go all "wow, awesome". It probably beats The Uncertainty Principle number of bombs used. Goblin was using everything he had against Pete, like Venom using the full potential of his symbiote in Identity Crisis. GG was making total use of his abilities and weaponry.
The crew behind this show sure know how to get us wondering. When Harry's mom first appeared, I actually thought it could be her...and so did Harry. It was a creepy moment for me when Spidey unmasked Goblin and Harry saw his dad's face on that maniac's body, looking directly to him, when he thought the real Norman was right beside him.
Another nice touch was Spidey's costume being torn so badly. Connors and family are out, and I really will miss them. And what a great finale, too, preparing the vengeful Harry to follow the Goblin's steps.

Great second season for the greatest Spidey show. It had its drops, but it had more great moments than I'd expect. It'll be a while until season 3, if it really gets made, which I hope so, but that's another story.
10/10.

 

[The Guardian]

I just finished watching the episode and it freaking rocked, it was just all kinds of awesome 10/10,up: I won't go into details just in case some haven't seen it yet but man I'm really hoping for a third season!!!

 

[stillanerd]

Just managed to get a hold of this episode, and interestingly enough, some of my last minute predictions panned out, although there were quite a lot that I was really off the mark. But, hey, that's okay because being 100% percent right takes out all the fun. And there were still enough surprises and twists to go around here.

Spoiler

First of course is that Norman Osborn is revealed as the Green Goblin. Now, most would have probably have said "Well duh! That's who it is in the comics!" Ah, but the great thing about this show was that even though we thought we had the answer, Weisman and company kept us guessing, recapturing the mystery of the Green Goblin's initial comic appearances that set him on the path as an A-list villain. Even this episode was no exception, as other suspects like Donald Menken and even Mrs. Osborn was floated as possible candidates (loved Harry's "You don't think it could be MOM?" and "Norman's" shrug).

What was equally great is that the explanations behind the mystery were brilliant in their simplicity. become addicted to Globlun Green? He absorbed as a gas like in the movie rather than drink. How were Norman and the Green Goblin in two places at once? The Chamelon posed as him to try and steal Oscorp secrets coincidentally at the same time and is later hired. How was Harry found in the Goblin costume and limping? After Norman faked a limp (and I couldn't believe how simple THAT was) he later found Harry passed out from an overdose, dressed him up, and twisted his leg. In doing so, this series has successfully managed to merge the crafty, insane, and flamboyant aspect of the Green Goblin and the cold, manipulative cunning of Norman Osborn that always seemed at odds with the character in the comics and shows just why he's worthy of being at the top of Spidey's rogues gallery.

Some might say it's a bit of a disappointment that while Spidey unmasked the Goblin, the Goblin didn't unmask Spidey. But I beg to differ. Spidey's costume was so torn up in this episode that Peter's hair and one of his eyes were exposed, not to mention there were a couple of times Spidey and the Goblin got in close proximity. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if Norman figured out Peter is Spider-Man already due to the fact that he recognized him as a result, since the eyes are the "window into the soul" and Norman is certainly smart and observant enough to spot a revealing detail such as this. Not to mention that Peter was already suspected earlier of being Spider-Man in a previous episode. So while the episode didn't actually say so, he knows folks. He knows.

One character who already appears to be following in his father's footsteps is Harry. Not only is he take initiative in manning the helicopter and chasing down Spidey and the Goblin, but he's also proven to be a manipulative little weasel, as he's used his own addiction and his father's supposed "death" to guilt trip Gwen into staying on as his girlfriend. Not to mention since he now thinks his father is dead, another victim of "the Green" like himself, and that Spidey was responsible, you can see how this will lead to him wanting to use his father's company to bring Spider-Man down.

Speaking of manning up, Peter finally declares his love to Gwen and she returns it. Only by this time, its way too late. Aunt May, ever the wise sage, finally told Peter what viewers realized all along--because Peter wasn't being honest with his true feelings for Gwen, he wasn't being fair to either Gwen or Liz and by not doing so from the get-go, his inaction and his giving in to Liz's advances, ended up losing both of them. Parker Luck at it's finest, ladies and gentlemen. Not that Gwen and Liz aren't exactly entirely victims here though. Gwen--whose transformation into full John Romita gorgeousness is complete even in the title credits--likewise was shy about her feelings and didn't have enough courage to tell Peter the truth until after the fact. After all, she only went out with Harry in the first place out of both pity for him as a friend and to try and get Peter to notice her. Likewise, Liz knew full well that Peter was attracted to Gwen more than her, and yet pursued him anyway and the end result was that she now feels as though Peter took her feelings for granted. A cynical person such as myself would say "What else did you expect, lady?"

Oh well, maybe this provides the opportunity for Peter and MJ wind up closer together in season 3 as a result. t:

Anyways, the action was pretty fast and furious in this one, especially the moment where Spidey was falling after the Osborn's penthouse was bombed. Not to mention the abundance of Pumpkin Bombs all over the city and the Goblin's Bazooka totting Pumpkin headed goons, a.k.a. "Squashbrains." Not to mention there was some pretty funny moments, the best being the Osborn family butler coming out of the wine cellar and nonchalantly addressing Norman, Harry, and Spider-Man. And it was also a characteristic Spider-Man story in that, while victorius against the villain, it's still a bittersweet one in that Spidey now thinks he's accidentally killed his best friend's father as well as the girl he loves to her as well. Even the Connors are moving to Florida leaving the slimy Miles Warren in charge (anyone else get a sense of dread at a possible Clone Saga in the making considering with Peter and Gwen? )

So, in conclusion, this was a terrific episode and a great way to end the season in a way befitting what the character is all about. Hopefully, well get season three, especially since there are a lot of possible storylines that have been set up.

 

[SpideyTheBest]

This episode, rocked everything! Even though I don't like the 90s show, I still thought that Turning Point was an awesome episode. But compared to this? It's laughable. And Catalysts? Your honor of being my favorite episode of any Spidey series is now gone.

Only 2 things that bothers me.
1. Never thought I would say this but in "Destructive Testing" I said to myself: "Poor Gwen, damn you Liz!". Now I said to myself: "Poor Liz, damn you Gwen!". And damn you Harry! You know for one second I thought "maybe he really was the Goblin" but then I figured, oh right, it was Norman all along. So Peter doesen't have a girlfriend now huh? Well, there's always MJ. And we really need a third season. I thought this was going to have a happy ending but no no no. I wanna see Peter and Gwen togheter for the first time in a cartoon show ever!

2. The Goblin still doesen't know that Peter is Spider-Man. Or does he? It's a shame that Venom, once again got the honor of knowing Spidey's identity first.

Ah well, an epic episode! It truly was.

 

[Yorokei]

Wow, great episode! As has been said, it really kept me guessing who the Green Goblin was, while I was really determined that it was Norman when I got into this episode. That's just cool.

Speaking of spoilers, has anyone noticed this one yet? I haven't seen it posted yet:

Spoiler

When 'Roman' (Norman) gets on the plane to the Cayman islands... Have you seen who is behind him in the row? That's right. Kingsley. Thus, Hobby.

I also found it very fun to see Norman wearing a shirt identical to the one Roddy was wearing after he had escaped to the Cayman Islands

Of course, there must be a season 3! The show is not done yet, obviously!

 

[Rincewind]

Spoiler

When 'Roman' (Norman) gets on the plane to the Cayman islands... Have you seen who is behind him in the row? That's right. Kingsley. Thus, Hobby.

Eh, how can you tell that it's Kingsley? It's just the back of an old black dude.

 

[Yorokei]

Eh, how can you tell that it's Kingsley? It's just the back of an old black dude.

Okay, so there is no way to tell that for certain, but...Given the things we know from the comics..

Spoiler

Kingsley DOES retreat to the Cayman islands every now and then (he's currently there in the comics, I think). Also, let's presume it IS Kingsley... Then it would be entirely possible for him to somehow learn about the Green formula through Osborn or his notes.

Then again, you are kinda right you can't tell for sure, but...

Spoiler

The guy seems to have the same build as Kingsley, and even though the cartoon has every right to do so, I wonder WHY they would chose to put 'just a random old black dude' behind Norman on a plane to the Cayman islands. This show is a bit too well planned for that

So, that's just me thinking .

 

[varsas]

Wow, just wow! This was hands down the best episode of season 2; if not the entire series!

I loved how they kept the seeds of doubt about Green Goblin's throughout the episode!

I assume everyone caught the mention of "Gargan"?

 

[Rincewind]

Okay, so there is no way to tell that for certain, but...Given the things we know from the comics..

Spoiler

Kingsley DOES retreat to the Cayman islands every now and then (he's currently there in the comics, I think). Also, let's presume it IS Kingsley... Then it would be entirely possible for him to somehow learn about the Green formula through Osborn or his notes.

Spoiler

I don't see how he can learn about the Green from Osborn on the Cayman Islands, unless he knows that it's him.

Spoiler

The guy seems to have the same build as Kingsley, and even though the cartoon has every right to do so, I wonder WHY they would chose to put 'just a random old black dude' behind Norman on a plane to the Cayman islands. This show is a bit too well planned for that

Spoiler

But Kingsley had a build that a lot of people have. As to why, well, for the same reason that they made a lot of characters from different races (among them, Kingsley himself) - cause New York is place where all sorts of races mix up. It's not like Kingsley is the only black man in the city. Besides, he had an old lady along side him, and a guy as rich and smooth as Kingsley strikes me as a man who would prefer a different type of female company

So, that's just me thinking .

Which is fine, I'm just nitpicky sometimes

 

[The Rose]

Amazing episode, but

Spoiler

am I the only one who's disappointed that Norman apparently hasn't yet deduced Peter's secret?

 

[SpideyTheBest]

Amazing episode, but

Spoiler

am I the only one who's disappointed that Norman apparently hasn't yet deduced Peter's secret?

No you're not.

 

[Rincewind]

Who says that he's not? He had some thoughts about it when Venom revealed it and he saw bits of Peter's face up close.

 

[carnage899]

Hands down, the BEST EPISODE, the BEST FINALE. like season 1 has been building Eddie's hatred towards Peter/Spidey so he can become Venom, the whole second season has been biulding up for this moment when the truth will finally be told. Norman is the one and only Goblin, the true mastermind of this series. now I can only hope this isnt the final curtain for the show. WE NEED SEASON 3.

 

[SpideyTheBest]

Who says that he's not? He had some thoughts about it when Venom revealed it and he saw bits of Peter's face up close.

It's still not certain. I hope he does know and it seems likely that he does but it's not certain yet.

 

[The Rose]

Who says that he's not? He had some thoughts about it when Venom revealed it and he saw bits of Peter's face up close.

See, I thought Norman might have known since "The Uncertainty Principle" (when Peter took his mask off on the roof), and framed Harry because he knew that that would ensure Peter's silence, plus there were hints in "Blueprints" and "Identity Crisis" that he knew (and that's not even counting the Osberry!), but it seems that Norman doesn't know...

It makes me wonder if the stuff about Norman being Peter's mentor will have any significance now...

Maybe Norman knows, maybe he doesn't. By being obscure, they're able to get away with having Norman flee the country without leaving the viewer frustrated and thinking, "He knows who Spidey is. What's his next move?".

I doubt we'll see Norman in season 3 (it would be overusing him since Green Goblin's already been in 7 episodes), but I suspect that he'll return in season 4 for a war with Hobgoblin and, perhaps, to kill Gwen Stacy.

My "Final Curtain" review:

Spoiler

Oh my... It was an excellent episode, and I'm glad that some of my predictions came true, but... Norman doesn't know that Peter is Spidey? I was seriously expecting Norman to rip Spidey's mask off during the fight, what with it already being battle damaged and all.

So it looks like Chameleon wasn't working with Norman in "The Uncertainty Principle", but I lucked out anyway in correctly guessing that he was involved in the events of that episode. That ending... Whoa... Peter doesn't have Liz, and Harry is stopping Gwen from getting together with Peter... We need a third season to see this resolved. I'm surprised I didn't see that ending coming, since I've been thinking since "The Uncertainty Principle" how similar this version of Norman is to the comics version of Roderick Kingsley. I mean, in the comics, Roderick managed to fool everyone as to his true identity for ages, plus he was blonde and loved travelling abroad now and then to clear his head.

Nice to see revamped Gwen in the opening credits.

I'm honestly disappointed that Norman doesn't seem to know Peter's secret, even when a quarter of Spidey's mask is gone (he should recognise the boy he's mentoring!), but this was still an excellent episode. But we NEED a third season. Otherwise this will practically be to this show what "Things Change" was to Teen Titans (in respect of it marvellously setting up future episodes, only to end up being the series finale).

I guess we're not going to see the Osborn amnesia from the comics now. I suppose Norman might not be in season 3, but he has to come back by season 4... for the Death of Gwen Stacy? It's possible. And the mention of Gargan in this episode was cool. Things have very much been left open for a third season.

The creators set this Green Goblin arc in the month of March but didn't do a St. Patrick's Day episode in this arc?!

I've suddenly remembered Ned Lee's investiagation into Spidey's true identity and connection to the Green Goblin from "Catalysts" and "Reaction"... What happened to that plot line? Will Ned Lee deduce that Norman was the Goblin and hunt him down? Also, how come we've seen nothing of Hammerhead or Tombstone since "Gangland"? It just strikes me as odd since we never got to see how Hammerhead reacted to being usurped as the new Big Man by Green Goblin, or the end of the Tombstone/Green Goblin confrontation seen at the end of "Gangland". Not to mention how odd it is that the site that must not be named reported Chameleon's alias in this series as

Spoiler

Dmitri Kravinoff

, yet we're at the end of the second season and that still hasn't been addressed.

Oh, and now it makes sense why Greg Weisman wanted to use Emily Osborn in this series! NOW IT ALL MAKES SENSE! She's in this series because someone has to look after Harry while Norman is AWOL!

 

[AIRWOLF]

WOW just WOW . It was the most exciting episode of the entire Spectacular Spider-Man series, yet. Well I guess those of us who were rooting for Norman to be the Green Goblin weren't surprised at all as to how it all unfolded since most of us deduced how Norman was able to cover his tracks thanks to Chameleon. The aerial battle was awesome, pure thrill ride through and through. I liked how Goblin had setup grenade launchers all around the city and Spider-Man was having the worst time of his life, so far. Even his suit got torn up pretty bad . To tell you the truth, for a moment they had me convinced that Norman wasn't the Goblin but than I remembered Chameleon hasn't appeared yet, so yeah all in all, great episode.

The thing that bothers me is that it was a little convenient for Goblin that Harry wound up passed out due the globulin and just when he needed a decoy, plus I think the fact he gave his son a bad knee further proves he's really twisted. Also, that Chameleon dressed up as Norman stealing Oscorp secrets and Norman as Greeny stealing his own equipment was another convenience that just happens to work in favor of Norman. Even though I said it was a great aerial battle when Spidey was swinging through the city with grenade flying from all directions, well it felt a bit like some old video game from early 90s to late 80s, where things would fly from everywhere and felt a bit too cartoony for lack of better word.

It's sad that Pete broke up with Liz, she was really hurt by it but I think she saw it coming. Well I think the fact that he didn't wind up with Gwen either makes up for it. The ending was really cool, thank goodness Norman is alive, but how the heck did he manage to survive an onslaught of explosions?? Lastly, second to last scene at the funeral, it appears Harry might soon become the new goblin, the way he was it seems very likely.

Overall 10 awesome score out of 10 , its obvious I loved it.

 

[Spiderine]

Yeah the finding Harry unconscience thing was very convenient but I'm sure Norman just would have found another way to weasel his way out of it since he was expecting Spiderman to show up.

 

[JerseyJoker]

The true way of seeing how psychotic Norman truly is, was watching him hurt his own son to cover his tracks. Brilliant way of showing Norman's true nature.

 

[Compi716]

Hot DAMN!!! What an unbelievable episode! I'm so upset that the season is over...I WANT MORE!