Game of Thrones General (Non-Book Related) Discussion Thread - Part 1

I feel so dumb thinking they were going to "make it better". :funny:

I do think a lot of the issues with Crows and Dragons is it does feel like a lot of world building and transitioning is going on. Which would be cool if there wasn't ages between the release of books.

I think the stuff with Dany at Meereen is 100% worldbuilding and I think it’s the thing that’s given him the most trouble. I don’t hate it as such, because I love that we got Barristan as a POV, but the stuff with the Harpy and Shavepate needs to be done so we can get to the main action. It’s all just a red herring for Dany for when she hits Westeros and encounters the real political manueverings.

But I’ve come to see the method in his madness with the Greyjoys and Young Griff, there’s some vital stuff there that I think hurt the show by not including.
 
I think the stuff with Dany at Meereen is 100% worldbuilding and I think it’s the thing that’s given him the most trouble. I don’t hate it as such, because I love that we got Barristan as a POV, but the stuff with the Harpy and Shavepate needs to be done so we can get to the main action. It’s all just a red herring for Dany for when she hits Westeros and encounters the real political manueverings.

But I’ve come to see the method in his madness with the Greyjoys and Young Griff, there’s some vital stuff there that I think hurt the show by not including.
Young Griff. I am so ready to see where that goes. For so long I thought he was a fake, but now I am not so sure. Because between him and Jon, I really could see them bringing out the "madness" in Dany.
 
This always been a main complaint about fantasy, and speculative fiction in general. There's a trope name for it call Humans Are White lol. The lack of PoC isn't inherently racist, but it's annoying as hell. Black people existed in the middle ages. What's the problem. But yeah things like that can get kinda tricky in art and entertainment. For example there's not a snowball chance in hell Bernie Mac's standup routine would fly today.....unfortunately. I miss Bernie :csad:

Would Richard Pryor's? :cwink:

I was going to ignore this conversation, but decided, par usual, to throw in my 2 cents (and that generally morphs into a quarter or fifty cents). First off portraying misogyny, racism, etc. does not mean the material is such nor does it mean it isn't. The problem is, and in some cases it ends up not being important, that it's very difficult to ascertain the writers intent which, to me anyway, is where most criticism should be pointed. Even then, reckless or malintent "can" actually serve to enlighten people. To be clear, I'm not arguing to have a bunch of bonehead bigots write a bunch of shows because they just might accomplish, by accident, something positive.

I think many times, people confuse artistic intent with "their" reaction to it. All of this is interesting to me because, on one hand, something that goes against social norms is going to make some of us uncomfortable. On the other hand, social norms are constantly changing. In a large part, they change "because" some people are pushing boundaries (think Lenny Bruce for example). I think it's okay to be uncomfortable with any form of art. If boundaries aren't pushed in that area, where the hell WILL they be pushed? When I say something controversial, and, believe me, I do it all the time, I "expect" a certain amount of push back or criticism. I just expect it to be civil and be given a chance to explain myself in more detail without being, at least at first, labeled stupid, lazy, bigoted, etc.

I think throwing out words to people like shallow or other pejoratives doesn't generally help the discussion. Think about the particular medium we're using right now. By its nature, it lends itself to a somewhat shallow analysis; so does email, texting, etc. and generally makes it difficult to determine the intent of others. I'm not saying that everything written on the SHH will be shallow or misunderstood, but what we tend to do is throw out our basic ideas about something and refrain from writing a treatise on any particular subject. Before I wander too far into the novella territory, I'll stop now.
 
This always been a main complaint about fantasy, and speculative fiction in general. There's a trope name for it call Humans Are White lol. The lack of PoC isn't inherently racist, but it's annoying as hell. Black people existed in the middle ages. What's the problem. But yeah things like that can get kinda tricky in art and entertainment. For example there's not a snowball chance in hell Bernie Mac's standup routine would fly today.....unfortunately. I miss Bernie :csad:
Certainly a trope, and it largely depends on world building. If the world is described as isolationist, where a bunch of communities live separately and any trespassing (or being different) is a risk, I struggle to imagine any kind of diversity. Societies end up being monoethnic. But if it's, let's say, something like Conan... It had diversity because there's intense migration, active travel and nobody gives a ****. Whites, Asians, Blacks and mixture of all kinds. And of course authors have a right to envision their characters any way they like. They don't owe it to any ethnicity.
 
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I'mma be honest here, before the finale I NEVER heard book fans predict Bran as the king. Not until the series finale, did all of these book readers go. "Yeah, It was hinted that he would be king in the books". Oh wtf ever apologists
 
I'mma be honest here, before the finale I NEVER heard book fans predict Bran as the king. Not until the series finale, did all of these book readers go. "Yeah, It was hinted that he would be king in the books". Oh wtf ever apologists

I knew it before I even saw the first episode of season 1. In fact, I knew it before I'd even heard of Game of Thrones.
 
I'mma be honest here, before the finale I NEVER heard book fans predict Bran as the king. Not until the series finale, did all of these book readers go. "Yeah, It was hinted that he would be king in the books". Oh wtf ever apologists
Yeah, everyone was too busy being up Dani, and Jon Snow's ass at the time. Now they're just backtracking.
 
Yeah, everyone was too busy being up Dani, and Jon Snow's ass at the time. Now they're just backtracking.

TBH, I thought Dany was going to get pregnant since she made such a big deal out of never having children. I figured Jon might die and she might also. So, as you can see by my last guess, I was right.
 
TBH, I thought Dany was going to get pregnant since she made such a big deal out of never having children. I figured Jon might die and she might also. So, as you can see by my last guess, I was right.
It's been said before but bears repeating, it's clear that was a red herring to keep audiences invested in Dani. Cause without it I think people would have lost interest in her arc. Tbh I think most people were just watching the show for the plot and mythos after either Ned, or Robb (and arguably Stannis) died. Dani, Jon, Arya, Sansa, all has their fans, but not as much as the aforementioned 2. Except maybe Ghost :p
 
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This always been a main complaint about fantasy, and speculative fiction in general. There's a trope name for it call Humans Are White lol. The lack of PoC isn't inherently racist, but it's annoying as hell. Black people existed in the middle ages. What's the problem. But yeah things like that can get kinda tricky in art and entertainment. For example there's not a snowball chance in hell Bernie Mac's standup routine would fly today.....unfortunately. I miss Bernie :csad:
On surface level, it makes sense that the vast majority of the characters are white because of the way that their world is geographically set. But the big problem is the fact that there is one geographic region that is populated by PoC, and the showrunners just decided they didn't care about them. So yeah, that's not a great look. Personally, if they'd taken the time to develop the storylines in the South, I'd have cast the Hightowers as PoC as well.

I'mma be honest here, before the finale I NEVER heard book fans predict Bran as the king. Not until the series finale, did all of these book readers go. "Yeah, It was hinted that he would be king in the books". Oh wtf ever apologists
So I hadn't read the books before watching the show. And now that I've started them, I think it's very clear that this was Martin's plan from Day One. Bran is the first major character to be introduced and so much of his story plays directly into the themes of the whole series. People may not have guessed it, but the ground work for King Bran is definitely there.
I’ll take solace in the fact that those people are likely growing smaller in numbers by the day.
Yeah, I wish I could take back all my old defense of them before I started learning more about the source material and their behavior behind the scenes.
 
It's been said before but bears repeating, it's clear that was a red herring to keep audiences invested in Dani. Cause without it I think people would have lost interest in her arc. Tbh I think most people were just watching the show for the plot and mythos after either Ned, or Robb (and arguably Stannis) died. Dani, Jon, Arya, Sansa, all has their fans, but not as much as the aforementioned 2. Except maybe Ghost :p

I had Arya pegged for ending up back in Braavos and being some big mystic mucky muck. Sansa I always thought would end up in Winterfell as Queen. I thought Bran was going to sit under a tree in a cave for 5000 years or something like that and just know $#!t. Tyrion as a big shot counselor though I thought he might be advising Dany's kid and basically be king until the little weasel grew up.
 
Incisive!


Some okay fan analysis at the start. But by the end...

Sounded like another unhinged weirdo with his thoughts at the end of "justice" and feelings of resentment, like legitimate grievance.

These things are both art and commerce. It is going to evoke emotional responses. It's designed to. But... There are limits. When we know it's fiction but keep saying things and acting in ways that don't seem to factor that in... It always comes off strange. No one was personally wronged. There is a line between fantasy and reality but wanting "justice", calling the actors "delusional"?

They worked on a show. They were invested in many ways far greater than we the audience and in fact the show had a greater real affect on their lives in comparison to the veiwers'... And even there it was still an acting job.

Fans, and I include myself, came away disatisfied to one degree or another. Show had a rushed ending. I don't dispute that... But that is not a great sin. No one needs "justice" for this any more than I needed justice for The X-Files, Once Upon A Time or Heroes.

The dude on that video certainly knows the things he's into are fiction... But he doesn't sound it by the end.
 
Friendly reminder that Sophie Turner (at 17 years old) was told by director Alex Graves that she was going to get a love interest in season 5, only to be married off to Ramsay and raped.

Some of the men who worked on GoT are ****ing perverted pieces of ****.
 
Well, to play devil’s advocate, Graves didn’t direct any episodes in season 5 and Benioff and Weiss don’t seem like the sort to divulge with people they don’t need to. So it’s possible that he assumed they were going with the book storyline with Harry the Heir.

Even the way her last scene in season 4 is shot makes it seem like she’s going to be in a position of power going forward. Then of course they and abandoned that wholesale with a number of other plotlines in season 5.
 
Friendly reminder that Sophie Turner (at 17 years old) was told by director Alex Graves that she was going to get a love interest in season 5, only to be married off to Ramsay and raped.

Some of the men who worked on GoT are ****ing perverted pieces of ****.

You take these sort of things way too seriously. It's just a joke. She did get a love interest. A twisted horrible love interest that fit right in with the world of Westeros and its characters. Sophie wasnt raped. She wasnt abused. She wasnt wronged in any appreciable way.
 
Well, to play devil’s advocate, Graves didn’t direct any episodes in season 5 and Benioff and Weiss don’t seem like the sort to divulge with people they don’t need to. So it’s possible that he assumed they were going with the book storyline with Harry the Heir.

Even the way her last scene in season 4 is shot makes it seem like she’s going to be in a position of power going forward. Then of course they and abandoned that wholesale with a number of other plotlines in season 5.

It didnt seem like they abandoned it so much as they showed that believing you're in charge and actually being in charge isnt the same thing. I also think that season 4 moment was also meant to be one of those season ending uplifting moments, and something they could subvert in season 5. Little more. Besides there were 4 seasons left. No way Sansa was going to be on top and not suffer at all for the rest of the show's run. Not while the Stark's enemies were still alive.
 
It didnt seem like they abandoned it so much as they showed that believing you're in charge and actually being in charge isnt the same thing. I also think that season 4 moment was also meant to be one of those season ending uplifting moments, and something they could subvert in season 5. Little more. Besides there were 4 seasons left. No way Sansa was going to be on top and not suffer at all for the rest of the show's run. Not while the Stark's enemies were still alive.

There’s a difference between having a measure of power and not suffering. I think they could have very easily gone the route of her trying to gain power in the Vale whilst dealing with set backs in a political and moral sense. Littlefinger should have been the villain of her story, not Ramsay.

That change hurt not only Sansa’s storyline, but also drastically reduced Theon’s as well. In the books I think it’s more than likely that it’ll be Theon and Asha who end up feeding him to the hounds.
 
It didnt seem like they abandoned it so much as they showed that believing you're in charge and actually being in charge isnt the same thing. I also think that season 4 moment was also meant to be one of those season ending uplifting moments, and something they could subvert in season 5. Little more. Besides there were 4 seasons left. No way Sansa was going to be on top and not suffer at all for the rest of the show's run. Not while the Stark's enemies were still alive.
Beyond what Roose wrote, which I completely agree with, Sansa's story does not flow naturally out of season 4. Hell, it doesn't even make sense for Littlefinger.
 
You take these sort of things way too seriously. It's just a joke. She did get a love interest. A twisted horrible love interest that fit right in with the world of Westeros and its characters. Sophie wasnt raped. She wasnt abused. She wasnt wronged in any appreciable way.

It's a ****ed up joke. And given the show's history with misogynist BS, this is yet another example of the crap they pull. Also wanting more nudity because one of them was the self professed representative of the "pervert" audience.

Sansa getting raped was a ****ty part of her arc that wasn't necessary.
 

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