Game of Thrones General (Non-Book Related) Discussion Thread - Part 1

My only expectation was that it would be good and I dunno maybe make sense? I still can't get over that the rise and fall of the mad queen took 30 minutes of screen time. Her death to me was so anticlimactic. It was rushed and it suffered for it. It's really as simple as that

that was my biggest gripe how fast she turned "heel" I mean it just was I'll glady trade the briene and Jaime sex scene for another Dany scene where she is discussing her battle plans with grey worm for example or like Emelia expressed in the new York another scene with Missande about where her mind is at without Sir Friend Zone besides showing people preparing for a battle for 20 minutes
 
I will say something though. I know people were complaining about Jon and Tyrion always saying "But she is my queen", and for some reason, it annoyed people. But, back in the beginning of season 2, Davos was the same way with Stannis, and even though he knew better, he still stuck by Stannis side till the end, and I don't remember people giving him grief for it. We also have to look at Daenerys from Tyrion and Jon's POV. She gave Tyrion a second chance when his own father and sister wanted him dead for something he didn't even do. and with Jon, Dany ended up sacrificing her dragon and many of her military to help him with his war against the Night King. I can understand why they were so resentful to abandoning her until the last moment. Sansa could have been nicer too and not be so salty towards her.

Truth even Arya had to say we needed her Dragons but then still she didn't even trust her after saying that which to me was just infuriating to watch and the celebrating scene where Dany was all alone in the corner so mind numbing dumb
 
I think.. in a perfect world, Dany would have tortured Cersei to death... which would be Dany's first step in her decline into madness in King's Landing.

to not have a scene of them 2 talking to each other and not across a barrier or armies but in the same room is a sin I will never forgive
 
On the whole, the series finale was quite satisfying, with below being the strongest points:
- Tyrion mourning for Cersie & Jamie.
- Drogon mourning.
- Jon finally coming to his senses about Daenerys.
- Tyrion explaining to Jon about Daenerys' past actions, this was particularly good exposition for Danny's actions in the second last episode.
- And the final send-off of the Starks going their separate ways.

But I still can't get over these bloody time jumps! E.g. at least a few months would've passed between Danny's death & the Lords deciding a new King. It would've been fascinating to have had a couple of episodes in between showing how the Lords were contacted, convinced to come to Westeros, etc. In past seasons they would've developed this over a number of episodes.
 
I fully acknowledge history might treat Game of Thrones better in the future simply for how big and popular it was and it did things on a scale you never saw with a TV show before, even for TV shows that were big scale. We shall see.

Agree. I wonder if the rushed nature of the last season still feels the same if you binge it over a weekend.
 
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Can we talk about how Sansa is still the power and status hunger little girl from Season 1? Even the finale had to remind of us of it.

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On the whole, the series finale was quite satisfying, with below being the strongest points:
- Tyrion mourning for Cersie & Jamie.
- Drogon mourning.
- Jon finally coming to his senses about Daenerys.
- Tyrion explaining to Jon about Daenerys' past actions, this was particularly good exposition for Danny's actions in the second last episode.
- And the final send-off of the Starks going their separate ways.

But I still can't get over these bloody time jumps! E.g. at least a few months would've passed between Danny's death & the Lords deciding a new King. It would've been fascinating to have had a couple of episodes in between showing how the Lords were contacted, convinced to come to Westeros, etc. In past seasons they would've developed this over a number of episodes.

What do you mean "finally"? There's no finally. Dany was good and fair until she just wasn't. She suddenly went mad and Jon knew that yeah this isn't going to work got's to off her. I think he already knew what needed to be done before he went to see Tyrion, there's no "finally" coming to his senses since Dany going all genocidal came pretty much out of the blue, not something he had been in denial about of or didn't see.
 
What do you guys think was the most abrupt change in character this season?
  • Dany going insane and slaughtering people
  • Jon becoming a useless sheep
  • Jaime running back to Cersei
 
What do you guys think was the most abrupt change in character this season?
  • Dany going insane and slaughtering people
  • Jon becoming a useless sheep
  • Jaime running back to Cersei
Jon. Long way away from the guy who took over the defense of Winterfell in season 4.
 
What do you guys think was the most abrupt change in character this season?
  • Dany going insane and slaughtering people
  • Jon becoming a useless sheep
  • Jaime running back to Cersei

I think Dany is the least abrupt considering she has thought about burning down the cities of the people who wronged before in the past.
 
What do you guys think was the most abrupt change in character this season?
  • Dany going insane and slaughtering people
  • Jon becoming a useless sheep
  • Jaime running back to Cersei

There were long term hints about Dany going way back. All she needed was the slightest push. So no.
Jon....uh....maybe....I just saw him as being conflicted and that changes people....so, basically, no...
Jaime.....not really...he gained some level of honor back, but he was always his sister's lap dog.

I can't really think of unexpected changes in the last season, but could be missing something. Everything was hinted at (at the very least) previously.

Maybe The Hound. The problem is that any real character changes in the last season didn't have time to percolate.
 
What do you mean "finally"? There's no finally. Dany was good and fair until she just wasn't. She suddenly went mad and Jon knew that yeah this isn't going to work got's to off her. I think he already knew what needed to be done before he went to see Tyrion, there's no "finally" coming to his senses since Dany going all genocidal came pretty much out of the blue, not something he had been in denial about of or didn't see.

It was rushed at the end. It did not come out of blue. Rewind 8 years worth of tape.
 
I've been reading some more interviews going on, most on the prequels, and I am starting to feel we might be pointing our anger at the wrong people.

First interview/article was on how GRRM says something like 4 or 5 prequels are in the works, but then the HBO president, Casey Bloys, says that is not the case, and at the most, they are looking into one prequel, but nothing definite. He also shot down any spin offs on any of the current characters like Arya, and seems to be adamant that fans of GOT need to move on. I also find it interesting, he became president back 2016, and this would be about the time that GOT seemed to have lost some of it's focus. It's possible the Benioff and Weiss are not completely to blame, and maybe there is something going on behind the scenes that made them not want to work with HBO for now.

But seriously, go research GOT spinoffs, and notice how the president, Casey Bloys, seems to be shutting down anything that the fans want.
 
I also find it interesting, he became president back 2016, and this would be about the time that GOT seemed to have lost some of it's focus. It's possible the Benioff and Weiss are not completely to blame, and maybe there is something going on behind the scenes that made them not want to work with HBO for now.

2016 is when they had no more books to adapt. Also, it was in 2017 that HBO approved the development of five different spin-offs. If Bloys became president in 2016, he was the one who approved that. Last but not least, Bloys didn't write the scripts, which was the major problem. Actually, as far as we know, HBO wanted to give D&D more seasons and more episodes. So HBO wanted to give "what the fans wanted".

D&D are still the ones to blame for the bad scripts, rushed stories, lack of dialogue and lack of character development. Those things are the writers' job, not the president of the Network.
 
2016 is when they had no more books to adapt. Also, it was in 2017 that HBO approved the development of five different spin-offs. If Bloys became president in 2016, he was the one who approved that. Last but not least, Bloys didn't write the scripts, which was the major problem. Actually, as far as we know, HBO wanted to give D&D more seasons and more episodes. So HBO wanted to give "what the fans wanted".

D&D are still the ones to blame for the bad scripts, rushed stories, lack of dialogue and lack of character development. Those things are the writers' job, not the president of the Network.
And apparently, according to this interview I read, this is false. I'll just say, research the quote "Game of Thrones Unlikely to get more than one spin off, says HBO boss". And after reading that, it just seems to me that Benioff and Weiss aren't the only ones crapping on the fans.
 
Well GRRM has addressed this, and said there were 5 scripts being developed to be pitched for a pilot not that 5 series were being greenlit.
 
I'll just say, research the quote "Game of Thrones Unlikely to get more than one spin off, says HBO boss".

This isn't news. They announced that since the begginning.

HBO started the development of 5 different projects to see which ones they'd move foward. Thinking HBO would turn half of their content into GoT related series is completely unrealistic. And believing HBO is "bad" because they aren't turning half of their content into GoT series is... too much.
 
The reason I believe that D&D are to blame for the drop in quality is not because they ran out of source material. We had plenty of fantastic episodes after the source material ran out. Battle of Bastards and Winds of Winter come to mind. So it was clear to me, that they could certainly still create a great show without the source material to fall back on. I just think that they were ready to move on to their other projects and rushed to get this one completed as quickly as possible. Why HBO allowed this is another question entirely. You'd think that HBO could have found another show runner to continue the story up to the ten full seasons that I believe the show needed to tell the story correctly. I would think that HBO owned the rights to the show and not D&D. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong on that particular point
 
It was rushed at the end. It did not come out of blue. Rewind 8 years worth of tape.

Sorry, English isn't my first language so sometimes I don't know how to express myself best. What I meant was, it felt at the same time like I knew it was going to happen since they've been hammering the dialogue about Dany going cray cray to us these past 2 seasons, yet they haven't showed any actions by Dany that would've Made us think she was going mad. So she just went mad when the script needed her to go mad, and all foreshadowing of that was by Varys saying it could happen, not showing us her descent. So at the same time out of the blue and predictable.
 
It was rushed at the end. It did not come out of blue. Rewind 8 years worth of tape.
In the realm of the show, it came out of the blue. What she did made zero sense for Dany on the show. It is nothing that has ever been hinted at her doing.
 
In the realm of the show, it came out of the blue. What she did made zero sense for Dany on the show. It is nothing that has ever been hinted at her doing.
I don't know... Dany had a streak where she very often got caught up in being self righteously vengeful and it was usually ameliorated by the other people in her circles that advised a different course of action. We did see in Essos her actions which she saw as justice, many a times brutally enforced, came to bite her at a later date in some fashion. At the point where the attack on King's Landing occurs she's bereft of any of the influences that would have had any affect upon her mind or emotions. Ser Baristan, Jorah, Misande... All dead. She had lost all faith in Tyrion and was, in a way rightly, starting to see treason all around her.

That is not an excuse for the what they did on the show or how it played out on my part. The entire time she was laying waste to the civilians I kept saying out loud as I watched... "But... WHY?" It was as so many have said, rather rushed in terms of the evolution of the character. That said, I did a podcast a few years back on GoT and my friend Anna was on. She was a fan of both the books and the show. I had at the time a pretty conventional view of Jon and Dany as the most traditionally "heroic" characters on the show, thinking they were both simply going to stay in the type of roles as more or less "good guys" in comparison to everyone else. Sure, they'd have set backs or have to make tough calls but I assumed they both were destined to be honorable protagonists for the most part.

Anna disagreed and laid out that for Dany there were seeds there wherein she could easily slide down a road that would make her a mix of her father the Mad King and Aegon The Conqueror. That she could be blinded by her self righteousness to condone any sort of terrible action. Sure, we might think that Tyrion's spiel to Jon was ham fisted in a way but I think that, while the change was rushed, the essential take away is valid. Unmoored from advice that would tamp down these tendencies, feeling threatened by the truth of Jon's heritage, and on and on, this side finally broke free in an orgiastic violent outbreak.

Again... It was HELLA rushed. It needed a lot of time to percolate to make us believe it's legitimacy as a turn for her and for us to feel the tragedy of this fall from our collective graces... But I do see now that this potential was always there and under the surface but just didn't want to because as Tyrion put it, the people that were in her sights were usually morally objectionable and it was easy to root for her. But if we look back, bloody vengeance was never that far from her mind and even the mere threat of it before she was capable of delivering on the threat was something she pulled like a .45 out of her metaphorical holster time and again, like when she was at the gates of Qarth, warning that she would not forget if they left her and her people to die. She swore then that should she live despite their abandonment of her that she would burn that city to the ground. She had said that those that would not accept her rule could live in the new world she was going to create or die in their old one. She was always on this precipice.

Now again... How they got to that point where she went over the edge was not as earned as it could have, should have been. But the set up, the frame to base such an evolution off of I think was always there.
 

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