Game of Thrones General (Non-Book Related) Discussion Thread - Part 1

[Motown Marvel]

Just because a show *portrays* misogyny, sexism, homophobia, and racism doesn't mean it *is* misogynistic, sexist, homophobic, and racist. But I know, critical analysis of art can be subjective.

I dunno what's more offensive: your grossly shallow excuse of a defense for GoT's repeated misogynistic transgressions, or the fact you aggrandize your grossly shallow excuse of a defense for GoT's repeated misogynistic transgressions as "critical analysis of art".

Utilizing sexual assault as a weapon against women and/or using it as a means of character development is a tired, offensive, lazy, misogynistic trope which GoT abused far too often.

 

[Black Narcissus]

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Just because a show *portrays* misogyny, sexism, homophobia, and racism doesn't mean it *is* misogynistic, sexist, homophobic, and racist. But I know, critical analysis of art can be subjective.

Just because a show portrays misogyny, sexism, homophobia and racism doesn't mean it can't also be misogynistic, sexist, homophobic and racist.

 

[Mani-Man]

Thats the only stuff i have seen so far about the documentary and im loving it.
Its hilarious to see the actors react pretty much like many others to season 8.

 

[Fist of Khonshu]

Preston's Game of Thrones Season Eight Watch - Season 8 Episode 6 The Iron Throne
Review
on Youtube was freakin' hilarious as he makes filet of D&D for that dreadful finale!
[I'd post the link but I don't want to get flagged for linking to content with profanity again.]

 

[Madam-Shogun]

I dunno what's more offensive: your grossly shallow excuse of a defense for GoT's repeated misogynistic transgressions, or the fact you aggrandize your grossly shallow excuse of a defense for GoT's repeated misogynistic transgressions as "critical analysis of art".

Utilizing sexual assault as a weapon against women and/or using it as a means of character development is a tired, offensive, lazy, misogynistic trope which GoT abused far too often.

I said what I said sir

 

[Madam-Shogun]

Just because a show portrays misogyny, sexism, homophobia and racism doesn't mean it can't also be misogynistic, sexist, homophobic and racist.

Ok, so we're at a dead end argument wise.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Ok, so we're at a dead end argument wise.

I mean, not really. I have defended GoT a lot. But when you consider how things started going once Jaime raped Cersei, kind of hard to ignore a lot of the issues imo. At best they were clumsily with how they handled things. At worst, they showed why they needed some female voices involved. Like how George Miller making Fury Road sought out the help of women when dealing with such issues. There is a very thin line when it comes to a lot of these things, and the guys who wrote Troy didn't really seem capable of walking that line. Especially once they had no road map.

 

[Madam-Shogun]

I mean, not really. I have defended GoT a lot. But when you consider how things started going once Jaime raped Cersei, kind of hard to ignore a lot of the issues imo. At best they were clumsily with how they handled things. At worst, they showed why they needed some female voices involved. Like how George Miller making Fury Road sought out the help of women when dealing with such issues. There is a very thin line when it comes to a lot of these things, and the guys who wrote Troy didn't really seem capable of walking that line. Especially once they had no road map.

My point had always been that people should write whatever they want freely. Asking for advice from women, and POC can certainly help. But I'm just against people dictating other people's art. I just wont budge on that.

 

[Motown Marvel]

My point had always been that people should right whatever they want freely. Asking for advice from women, and POC can certainly help. But I'm just against people dictating other people's art. I just wont budge on that.

They can write whatever the hell they want, no one here is saying otherwise. But the freedom to write what you want does not exempt you (or any artist) from criticism. And GoT's repeated poor handling of female characters warrants the criticism righteously levied against them. As a response to that criticism it was up to them to consider its merits or ignore it and keep writing problematic depictions of women. They clearly, and unfortunately, chose the latter.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Yeah, you can write whatever you like. And people can criticize it as well.

 

[Roose Bolton]

In hindsight it’s probably a good thing they never adapted Arianne Martell (sexually liberated woman of colour) or Jon Connington (gay man). The Sand Snakes and Loras Tyrell...weren’t handled well.

 

[Madam-Shogun]

In hindsight it’s probably a good thing they never adapted Arianne Martell (sexually liberated woman of colour) or Jon Connington (gay man). The Sand Snakes and Loras Tyrell...weren’t handled well.

Cause D&D never liked Dorne, I don't read the books but half of book readers don't like them either. At least on the internet.

 

[Roose Bolton]

D&D didn’t really like a lot of things about the books. But trust me, their substitutes were not better than what George created.

 

[Madam-Shogun]

Yeah, you can write whatever you like. And people can criticize it as well.

That's perfectly fine, but they're not going to dictate my work. My disposition is similar to Ava Duvernay when she was criticized over her depiction of President LBJ in "Selma". What's considered Racist, or Misogynist, might not be seen that way by others. That's just too much to unpack here. In fact I remember people calling GoT racist cause it didn't have any black main characters, I felt that didn't make the show racist. The white savior aesthetic of Dani freeing the slaves was either intentionally white savior-ish, or it was just unfortunate implications.

 

[Madam-Shogun]

D&D didn’t really like a lot of things about the books. But trust me, their substitutes were not better than what George created.

Tell that to the people that still defend them.

 

[Roose Bolton]

I’ll take solace in the fact that those people are likely growing smaller in numbers by the day.

 

[Madam-Shogun]

I’ll take solace in the fact that those people are likely growing smaller in numbers by the day.

It's weird honestly, in order to defend GoT they usually try to tear GRRM down. At least that's what I get out of the debates I've seen online.

 

[Roose Bolton]

He’s certainly not a perfect writer...but even his worst characters have something going on with them beyond fan service like the Sand Snakes.

 

[blackdragon6]

He’s certainly not a perfect writer...but even his worst characters have something going on with them beyond fan service like the Sand Snakes.

Somebody at another board are saying book readers are claiming plausible deniability because George hasn't finished his last 2 books. So all the things they (TV fans) don't like is because of D&D not GRRM. Basically saying GRRM deserves some of the blame because some of the controversial issues are traced back to the source material, but book fans are playing dumb.

 

[blackdragon6]

In fact I remember people calling GoT racist cause it didn't have any black main characters, I felt that didn't make the show racist. The white savior aesthetic of Dani freeing the slaves was either intentionally white savior-ish, or it was just unfortunate implications.

This always been a main complaint about fantasy, and speculative fiction in general. There's a trope name for it call Humans Are White lol. The lack of PoC isn't inherently racist, but it's annoying as hell. Black people existed in the middle ages. What's the problem. But yeah things like that can get kinda tricky in art and entertainment. For example there's not a snowball chance in hell Bernie Mac's standup routine would fly today.....unfortunately. I miss Bernie

 

[Roose Bolton]

Somebody at another board are saying book readers are claiming plausible deniability because George hasn't finished his last 2 books. So all the things they (TV fans) don't like is because of D&D not GRRM. Basically saying GRRM deserves some of the blame because some of the controversial issues are traced back to the source material, but book fans are playing dumb.

Some of the big things are undoubtedly GRRM’s ideas. Dany’s turn, Bran being king etc, but I think given context most of those could work and even jive pretty well with stuff he’s already set up.

Plus...people need to look at the vast amount of stuff D&D cut out or altered. It wasn’t that they just ran out of book material and then filled in the blanks, they actually cut a good amount out that seems fairly important. Certain plot beats might happen, but I can’t imagine Westeros in the books will look too similar to the state of things this season.

 

[blackdragon6]

Some of the big things are undoubtedly GRRM’s ideas. Dany’s turn, Bran being king etc, but I think given context most of those could work and even jive pretty well with stuff he’s already set up.

Plus...people need to look at the vast amount of stuff D&D cut out or altered. It wasn’t that they just ran out of book material and then filled in the blanks, they actually cut a good amount out that seems fairly important. Certain plot beats might happen, but I can’t imagine Westeros in the books will look too similar to the state of things this season.

But I wonder will the long night 2.0 will last a lot longer in the books?

 

[Roose Bolton]

I could feasibly see it taking up a good amount of time, and probably effects a lot further through Westeros. The big thing is that the Night King isn’t a character in the books, so they won’t be able to defeat the White Walkers and the Army of the Dead as easily.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

D&D didn’t really like a lot of things about the books. But trust me, their substitutes were not better than what George created.

I feel so dumb thinking they were going to "make it better".

I do think a lot of the issues with Crows and Dragons is it does feel like a lot of world building and transitioning is going on. Which would be cool if there wasn't ages between the release of books.