The Last Jedi General Episode VIII News/Speculation/SPOILER Thread - - - - Part 13

[Tacit Ronin]

Do they? Look at the prequels.

 

[BatLobster]

Do they? Look at the prequels.

They'd just use the fact that those weren't released under Disney to further their Disney conspiracy angle.

 

[Mask&Cape]

The closest I can think of atm is from Star Wars Rebels which appears to be folded although I am sure there are plenty examples in the old EU and it wouldn't be had to make, its just two sabers that can be connected together at the hilt.

That one in Rebels is very nice.

I find that an acceptable lightsabre for Rey in IX as it has not seen a lot of use.

In Rey's vision of the Knights of Ren in TFA, they seemed to be carrying a variety of large weapons like axes and hammers. I had thought that maybe only Kylo had learned how to build a sabre or maybe Snoke had forbidden them from having lightsabres.

It is decided by the crystal. All Kyber crystals are initially colourless until the Jedi bonds with it while building the saber when it takes on a colour (nearly always blue or green). Sith sabers are red as they have to force the bonding, a process they call bleeding, that results in the crystal taking on a red colour. The blades Ahsoka carries in Rebels were from cleansing sith crystals, which turned them white. Beyond Red and White crystals there is no canon explanation for the reason that normal crystals became the colour they did. In some of the old RPG and computer games they tried to give reasons for it but it has never been canon. All we know is Blue and Green are normal, Mace's Purple blade is unusual and that the Jedi Temple guards carried yellow blades but its likely that the yellow blades were their ceremonial while on duty and not the guards's personal weapons.

I don't know why I thought the crystals start out as blue. The very fact that I had mentioned the colour changes to blue or green later should have alerted me to my mistake.

Are the yellow blades of the Temple Guards actually lightsabres?

 

[DerekLake]

I keep reading people complaining that they wanted to see some big mighty Jedi warrior Luke in TLJ...and, well....

"Looking? Found someone you have I would say, hm?"
"I don't think so. I'm looking for a great warrior."
"Great warrior? Wars not make one great."

"A Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defense. Never for attack."

"Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter."

I initially did want to see Luke do some fighting, but thinking about it more, I do think a more profound realization could have come from this film. I now feel that the film didn’t go far enough, because it doesn’t actually make the case that the Jedi are not meant to be warriors. In Obi-Wan’s initial description, he describes the Jedi as guardians of peace and justice. And yet their end came during three years of war in which they were overstretched and their numbers diminished. Both Obi-Wan and Luke’s pivotal moments came precisely when they refused to fight. I think this film could have made much more of this idea - that the Jedi went astray precisely because they became warriors like the Sith. I think back to the way Qui-Gon was characterized, the way he meditated during the pauses between his clashes with Maul, as opposed to Anakin and even Obi-Wan. I think TLJ could have spent a little more time focusing on that, and could have actually used that to actually develop Rey’s understanding of herself and the Force.

What I am curious about are why many of the lieutenants of the anti TLJ crusade are DCEU monks. Are they waging a proxy war on marvel through Star Wars? You can see the bitterness about Justice League pouring out in these threads even though DC has nothing to do with Star Wars.

I think so too, and that's what bums me out. I actually do like- maybe even love TLJ, but this isn't about me lamenting the fact that it's getting trashed. It's lamenting what social media has done to us. As a society as a whole, not just the fan world.

No choice but to tune it out at this point. I just don't have the energy.

They are angry and upset for multiple reasons, and maybe they feel they've gotten the short end of the stick. Meanwhile, the Star Wars movies continue to get great reviews and rake in over $1 billion at the box office. They feel like they are "losing."

Please try not to overgeneralize. It might be an easy way of dismissing some arguments, but it’s not a great way to actually engage in respectful dialogue. It is possible to recognize and acknowledge flaws in a product that many people like.

 

[Mask&Cape]

He does actually say lightsaber there.

Yes, I believe that until TLJ the only movie character to call them laser swords was Anakin at dinner in TPM.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

And SW was distributed by Fox then? And now Disney is buying Fox. Damn, the deep state conspiracy stretches back decades. It was a diabolical plan, long in the making, Trump is just a distraction, its ultimate target, Batman and friends.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Yes, I believe that until TLJ the only movie character to call them laser swords was Anakin at dinner in TPM.

It was a joke. But considering Lucas himself called them laser swords, this even becoming a debate was all time dumb imo.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

Fire sticks.

 

[writer0327]

What I am curious about are why many of the lieutenants of the anti TLJ crusade are DCEU monks. Are they waging a proxy war on marvel through Star Wars? You can see the bitterness about Justice League pouring out in these threads even though DC has nothing to do with Star Wars.

I've noticed the exactly same thing and Its perplexing. Its like anything related to Disney is coming under fire.

 

[Mask&Cape]

Yes, I had the same experience. My second and third viewing didn't have that aspect at all and I was able to enjoy the film much more as a result.

I really think if people allowed themselves to keep an open mind, you'd see a lot more people coming around. Unfortunately, these days, you can so easily fall down a rabbit hole of Youtube videos and clickbait articles that keep you in a feedback loop (not too dissimilar to politics) that will only solidify your original position and cause you to double or triple down just to maintain that your opinion is "correct".

Yes, that can swing the other way too if you liked the film as there are articles/videos to validate that, but personally for me it comes down to what I felt when I was watching it, how I felt walking out of the theater, and what I get out of it on rewatches. There's just too much noise out there, and most films would fall apart when subjected to the amount of extreme hatred that this is being flanked with from all sides.

I find myself kind of bummed out in the wake of this film, because while I always knew it...it just solidifies my feeling that it's very hard to find a mature discourse about a movie like this in the geek world. EVERYONE has an opinion that feel is all-so-important, and it's just such easy fodder for clicks or subscriptions to get up on a soap box and preach to the choir.

A bit off-topic I know, but I watched a few "TLJ SUCKS!" rants just for a laugh...and now my Youtube recommendations are flooded with them, and it's kind of bumming me out now.

I'm more than happy to have an honest, civil conversation with someone with an opposing view, but IMO fandom is sinking into new levels of toxic with this film. I just find it unfortunate, because at its heart this is still a family movie about space wizards, and there's still plenty of fun to be had in TLJ imo. It's still very much a Star Wars movie. People need to lighten up a little. NONE of the SW films would survive the level of "..and THIS was stupid too!" as this movie is getting.

Well said.

People on the internet are far too quick to cut into anything and there is mob mentality too. I came here for that honest discussion but I find myself getting dragged of topic.

Clear out that internet history and cheer yourself up with some good TLJ discussion. The RebelForce Radio podcasts are good - all the discussion is honest and fair minded and the criticism is constructive, not negative for the sake of being negative. There are many Star Wars podcasts but RFR is the only one I listen to and can vouch that it will not "bum you out" with negativity.

 

[Mask&Cape]

It was a joke. But considering Lucas himself called them laser swords, this even becoming a debate was all time dumb imo.

I know you were joking. And I wasn't responding to your post . I was just commenting on the post by the user who first replied to your post. He/she is the one you should be telling you were making a joke.

No need to jump down my throat.

 

[BatLobster]

Please try not to overgeneralize. It might be an easy way of dismissing some arguments, but it’s not a great way to actually engage in respectful dialogue. It is possible to recognize and acknowledge flaws in a product that many people like.

I don't think it's an overgeneralization that discourse in fandom has grown coarse and bitter, amplified by our social media bubbles. That's just the plain truth of where we're at imo. It's literally at a point where I don't want to discuss this movie with some of my actual, real-life friends because I think it's ridiculous for us to end up mad at each other over differing opinions on a film...but that's how fraught with emotion the whole thing has become for a lot of people. And that's a shame. I have no problem with people expressing criticisms in a non-hyperbolic way.

Well said.

People on the internet are far too quick to cut into anything and there is mob mentality too. I came here for that honest discussion but I find myself getting dragged of topic.

Clear out that internet history and cheer yourself up with some good TLJ discussion. The RebelForce Radio podcasts are good - all the discussion is honest and fair minded and the criticism is constructive, not negative for the sake of being negative. There are many Star Wars podcasts but RFR is the only one I listen to and can vouch that it will not "bum you out" with negativity.

Yeah, I like those podcasts. The RFR podcasts are proof that those of us who like the film are more than willing to have an open, honest discussion with people who more critical of it. It's all about the tone you set for the conversation and keeping it respectful.

 

[Orba]

Are the yellow blades of the Temple Guards actually lightsabres?

The weapons are described as lightsaber pikes on the official Star Wars site.

It was a joke. But considering Lucas himself called them laser swords, this even becoming a debate was all time dumb imo.

Weren't they called laser swords back in the original drafts of what became ANH? Probably a term that stuck with him from then.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I know you were joking. And I wasn't responding to your post . I was just commenting on the post by the user who first replied to your post. He/she is the one you should be telling you were making a joke.

No need to jump down my throat.

Not jumping down your throat. I am simply pointing out I was joking in an attempt to display how that argument has been quite stupid. I didn't see either of you making that argument, so that wasn't towards either of you.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Weren't they called laser swords back in the original drafts of what became ANH? Probably a term that stuck with him from then.

I believe they were always known as laser swords, yes. Laser swords is basically the generic name for all lightsaber looking weapons, including lightsabers. t:

 

[BatLobster]

Yes, the laser sword thing is one of the most bizarre, dumb arguments I've seen. That was cool of Johnson to include and shows he knows his SW history.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Yes, the laser sword thing is one of the most bizarre, dumb arguments I've seen. That was cool of Johnson to include and shows he knows his SW history.

I rather love it.

 

[Frodo]

That's the thing though, since when was DC in war with Star Wars? I thought the competition was with the MCU.

The debate over TLJ is largely and overwhelmingly a SW fan civil war. There can be overlaps of course between all of these geek properties, because people tend to be fans of multiple things, but its really not a DC fan vs SW fan issue.

The vast majority of the venom and dogmatic behavior on both sides over TLJ are among SW fans attacking each other , not other fanbases stirring the pot from the outside.

DC fans are still generally divided among themselves over the direction and future of the DCEU and the fall out of JL.

I wouldn't be surprised if you have some DC fans poking the bear with regards to divided SW fans, but the controversy over this film is really between and among SW fanboys.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

The debate over TLJ is largely and overwhelmingly a SW fan civil war. There can be overlaps of course between all of these geek properties, because people tend to be fans of multiple things, but its really not a DC fan vs SW fan issue.

The vast majority of the venom and dogmatic behavior on both sides over TLJ are among SW fans attacking each other , not other fanbases stirring the pot from the outside.

DC fans are still generally divided among themselves over the direction and future of the DCEU and the fall out of JL.

I wouldn't be surprised if you have some DC fans poking the bear with regards to divided SW fans, but the controversy over this film is really between and among SW fanboys.

Attacking each other? Oh no, fans of the ST aren't really attacking anyone.

 

[Mask&Cape]

The weapons are described as lightsaber pikes on the official Star Wars site.

Sorry I didn't explain myself properly - I meant to ask if the Temple Guard weapons were also powered by kyber crystals or if they were more lightsaber-type weapons.

If they cyber crystals, what causes them to be yellow?

 

[Mask&Cape]

Not jumping down your throat. I am simply pointing out I was joking in an attempt to display how that argument has been quite stupid. I didn't see either of you making that argument, so that wasn't towards either of you.

The winking emoji was used to tell you not to take that particular sentence seriously. I was simply asking why are you directing this at me, rather than the guy who actually replied to you.

 

[Mask&Cape]

The debate over TLJ is largely and overwhelmingly a SW fan civil war. There can be overlaps of course between all of these geek properties, because people tend to be fans of multiple things, but its really not a DC fan vs SW fan issue.

The vast majority of the venom and dogmatic behavior on both sides over TLJ are among SW fans attacking each other , not other fanbases stirring the pot from the outside.

DC fans are still generally divided among themselves over the direction and future of the DCEU and the fall out of JL.

I wouldn't be surprised if you have some DC fans poking the bear with regards to divided SW fans, but the controversy over this film is really between and among SW fanboys.

Doesn't this fan civil war erupt with each movie and TV show?

Is it any different to the *****ing and moaning that came with the PT, TFA and Rogue One?

 

[Mask&Cape]

Sorry to go off topic here and bring up the actual movie

I'm of the opinion that it should take a very long time for the new Jedi to build up their ranks and that it should never grow as large or powerful as it was in the PT - just to different rather than rethreading the same ground. Have the Jedi be often outnumbered rather than an army.

Assuming Episode IX is going to jump a few years in time, Rey is going to be a stronger and wiser Jedi, but should she still be the only one in the ST or should IX introduce an apprentice or two for Rey to help her in against the Knight of Ren?

And I asked this earlier, but is General Hux the top dog of the First Order military or is he just in command of Snoke anti-Republic/anti-Resistence division?

And is/was(?) Phasma the commanding officer of every Stormtrooper in the First Order or just the ones in Hux's section?

third viewing today and afterwards I remember a rumour that Adam Driver was in Ireland during the shoot. At the time I had assumed this meant that the First Order somehow finds the planet and Kylo res leads an attack on the island. There is also a clip in the teaser of Ridley running with a lightsabre on what seems be the Island.

I forgot about this until today and by coincidence I just an interview with Rian Johnson in which he said both Ridley and Driver were on set and just off camera each other Force Connection scenes - rather than have them talking themselves or someone just reading the script to them. So that explains why Driver was in Ireland.

Just thought I'd put that out there.

 

[Roose Bolton]

I believe Hux is in charge of the entire First Order military.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

I hope that we see Kylo going into battle with the Knights of Ren in IX. If so, I think Rey is going to need some Force using students/allies to handle that. Which is why I am thinking we will see a nice chunk of time fly by between the two episodes. Not only does Rey need to find others to counter Kylo and the Knights but the Resistance to the First Order needs to be rebuilt and strengthened as well with numbers and resources.

Of course maybe this goes in a totally different way? Maybe the third film has Rey as the only Force user opposing Kylo and a totally dominant First Order with only a weak and ineffectual opposition, so the weight is all on Rey to finish off Kylo?