The Rise of Skywalker General Star Wars Episode IX News/Speculation Thread - Part 1

[Gothamsknight]

I need this poster immediately! This has to be one of the most gorgeous posters for the ST.

 

[BatLobster]

@DarthSkywalker

Yes, I'm putting forth a possible scenario that seems plausible to me, based on the fact that I give Kathy Kennedy a lot more credit in overseeing this thing than most other fans have. People lie all the time in this business to protect secrets. JJ is most famous of all for doing that *cough* Kahn *cough*. And there are plenty of other examples. These are writers/directors we're talking about. They lie for a living. They're magicians with a 200 million dollar budget. So yeah, I'm taking most of these comments with a big ol' grain of salt. Especially because JJ contradicts it all when he says the choices were "very much in line" with what he was thinking, so it all becomes very hazy. It's really simple how I'm viewing this.

Spoiler

If the relevant reveal for Rey's lineage is not her parents, but who her grandparent is, then as a red herring it makes sense to draw more attention to her parents, and take out the possibility that they are legacy characters themselves, to set up the bigger reveal later. This was something I was thinking immediately after seeing TLJ, when I was still on the Rey Kenobi train and thought she might be his granddaughter. If this is going to be a proper mystery, there SHOULD be red herrings and misdirects along the way. That's exactly how it should've played out. It doesn't negate the thematic and dramatic value of her having to confront the possibility of her being a nobody in this story. In fact, the idea that she ultimately has to define herself lines up perfectly with where the story seems to be going.

Now, is it possible Rian was in the dark and just happened to make a movie that still allowed JJ to continue his story? Sure. And that's fine also. I think you are misunderstanding what I'm saying. I'm not trying to say people are going to suddenly retroactively change their opinions on TLJ. But I am saying that it's totally possible it may actually enhance the film for those of us who already do like it. And what's wrong with that? Literally that's been the case for every single Star Wars movie for me. They all add a new wrinkle to the story that makes me see the whole in a different light. It's one of the things I love most about Star Wars.

And I agree with you, there are absolutely some execution issues in TLJ. I don't agree that it's to the extent that you see it, but it's certainly not perfect. But it's taken the brunt of its criticism for the broad stroke creative choices, and that's really what I'm talking about. I'm pushing back on the notion that those choices ruined the saga or the trilogy, as so many have dug their heels in on over the past 2 years.

But look man, can we agree that this is kind of a silly argument to have? Like if we both walk out of TROS loving the film, that's what should matter at the end of the day right? It would be strange to be having arguments like "This is why it's awesome", "No you're wrong, THIS is why it's awesome!", and then just continue arguing about the previous film.

I'm gonna open up for a minute here. I am currently grieving a very difficult loss. I wasn't planning on going knee deep into spoilers for this movie, but honestly at the moment it's become a wonderful distraction and it's one of the things keeping me going during a tough time. I just want to be excited about new Star Wars coming in December. I enjoy this new trilogy, both films. I'm tired of arguing about TLJ, and I think a lot of people are tired of hearing it too. Let's give it a rest and try to see the positive in the situation-- we're both hyped for this thing!

 

[Gothamsknight]

the debates over TLJ actually made me walk away from Star Wars in early 2018 for quite a few months. I just couldn't take it anymore, so I sort of stepped away, and then returned around December once the episode IX leaks started to surface. The hype for this film is starting to resemble that of The Force Awakens, which was just an amazing ride for me. I loved the hype for TLJ too, but there's something about the hype for Force Awakens and TROS that is just so damn good. I don't know if it has to do with JJ being back or what, which i think is part of it, but it's like you're ready to go on an insane adventure on christmas. I'm so damn ready, and whether you loved or hated TLJ, I think we should all be excited for what I think is going to be an amazing ride into the sunset for the Skywalker Saga.

 

[DKDetective]

The Last Jedi does not build on the characters from TFA. It throws them out, with the exception of Kylo, to start with characters that approximate those characters, but basically allow Rian to start over. The only characters not really effected by this are Kylo, Maz and Leia. And that is because Rian seems to relate to the creepy young white dude, Maz has one scene and Leia is basically unconscious for the vast majority. The reason this seems to be is that Rian didn't have much interest in telling the story of anyone but Kylo. Why Poe and Finn have poorly written subplots, with generic characterizations used to tell generic subplots that simply take up run time. Oh and in Finn's case, takes him out of the Rey sweepstakes for hunky Kylo.

I want to jump on the Poe and Finn thing for a moment. I feel like I've said quite a bit in the past on here regarding Rey, the shortcomings of her storyline and the way I feel it's honestly kinda sexist, but I don't want to let those two slide away. Especially Poe, because I hate what they do with Poe in Last Jedi. Poe is a super thin character in Force Awakens, no argument there. But the most refreshing thing about him is what a genuinely good guy he is. He's like if the classic hotshot pilot archetype didn't have all the toxic masculinity attached. But Rian wanted to make a point about toxic masculinity, so it's grafted back onto him, and he has issues with Holdo because he's sexist. It doesn't even make much sense with his backstory. The guy who became a pilot because his hero is his mother and who followed Leia for years suddenly is a sexist who can't handle women in authority well? Way to regress the character. You know what was genuinely progressive and subversive? J

I feel like the friendzoning Finn for Kylo in TLJ situation has the same troubling implications as the Poe characterization. Finn and Rey had a really nice connection in TFA, which could have been developed into wonderful romantic chemistry. As a black male romantic lead, who lets his strong female partner, take the lead, Finn could have been a truly refreshing and positive archetype going forward. Instead, Rian relegates him to a POC supporting character paired with another POC supporting character, so that Rey can play the romance game with the abusive, entitled white male character. It's like Rian was saying that Finn, as a POC, was not good enough for Rey and instead her potential romantic match should be the privileged white male *******. The movie creates very troubling implications.

 

[Snow Queen]

I feel like the friendzoning Finn for Kylo in TLJ situation has the same troubling implications as the Poe characterization. Finn and Rey had a really nice connection in TFA, which could have been developed into wonderful romantic chemistry. As a black male romantic lead, who lets his strong female partner, take the lead, Finn could have been a truly refreshing and positive archetype going forward. Instead, Rian relegates him to a POC supporting character paired with another POC supporting character, so that Rey can play the romance game with the abusive, entitled white male character. It's like Rian was saying that Finn, as a POC, was not good enough for Rey and instead her potential romantic match should be the privileged white male *******. The movie creates very troubling implications.

I don't really have strong feelings on Rey and Finn as a romantic couple vs a pair of friends, but if she has to have a romance in this trilogy... the guy she had a fast connection and great chemistry with was a better option than the entitled, kidnapping space Nazi who slaughtered a school (though we're not supposed to care about them, but are supposed to care about his feelings, another troubling issue), sliced up her closest friend and put him in a coma from which she does not know if he has awoken, murdered his dad and whose mind reading they decided to frame in the language of sexual assault ("You know I can take whatever I want."). “I wanted for us to stay with the point of view of the young woman. I wished for us to believe in this romance.” No. Stop. Do anything but that.

 

[BatLobster]

Rey kissing Finn on the forehead in TFA certainly read as a friendzoned moment to everyone in 2015.

I honestly don't think Rey even needs any love interest at all in this trilogy. Like Luke, I figure she'll be on her own at the end.

 

[DKDetective]

Rey kissing Finn on the forehead in TFA certainly read as a friendzoned moment to everyone in 2015.

I think it's presumptuous to assume Rey even needs any love interest at all in this trilogy. Like Luke, I figure she'll be on her own at the end.

No one said she needed one, but if they were going to do it, it should have been Finn and not Kylo. It is extremely presumptuous to presume that others are presuming.

 

[BatLobster]

No one said she needed one, but if they were going to do it, it should have been Finn and not Kylo. It is extremely presumptuous to presume that others are presuming.

My apologies if it came off that way. I edited my comment to better reflect the intent of what I was trying to say there.

I will also add that I'm looking forward to Daisy and Oscar finally sharing the screen and seeing what their chemistry is like. Maybe it'll change my position and I'll become a ReyPoe shipper as I'm watching the film.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Rey kissing Finn on the forehead in TFA certainly read as a friendzoned moment to everyone in 2015.

I honestly don't think Rey even needs any love interest at all in this trilogy.. Like Luke, I figure she'll be on her own at the end.

Yeah, only if you think kissing someone on the lips while they are unconcious is cool. It was Rey doing the kissing, not rapey Kylo.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

@DarthSkywalker

Yes, I'm putting forth a possible scenario that seems plausible to me, based on the fact that I give Kathy Kennedy a lot more credit in overseeing this thing than most other fans have. People lie all the time in this business to protect secrets. JJ is most famous of all for doing that *cough* Kahn *cough*. And there are plenty of other examples. These are writers/directors we're talking about. They lie for a living. They're magicians with a 200 million dollar budget. So yeah, I'm taking most of these comments with a big ol' grain of salt. Especially because JJ contradicts it all when he says the choices were "very much in line" with what he was thinking, so it all becomes very hazy. It's really simple how I'm viewing this.

Spoiler

If the relevant reveal for Rey's lineage is not her parents, but who her grandparent is, then as a red herring it makes sense to draw more attention to her parents, and take out the possibility that they are legacy characters themselves, to set up the bigger reveal later. This was something I was thinking immediately after seeing TLJ, when I was still on the Rey Kenobi train and thought she might be his granddaughter. If this is going to be a proper mystery, there SHOULD be red herrings and misdirects along the way. That's exactly how it should've played out. It doesn't negate the thematic and dramatic value of her having to confront the possibility of her being a nobody in this story. In fact, the idea that she ultimately has to define herself lines up perfectly with where the story seems to be going.

Now, is it possible Rian was in the dark and just happened to make a movie that still allowed JJ to continue his story? Sure. And that's fine also. I think you are misunderstanding what I'm saying. I'm not trying to say people are going to suddenly retroactively change their opinions on TLJ. But I am saying that it's totally possible it may actually enhance the film for those of us who already do like it. And what's wrong with that? Literally that's been the case for every single Star Wars movie for me. They all add a new wrinkle to the story that makes me see the whole in a different light. It's one of the things I love most about Star Wars.

And I agree with you, there are absolutely some execution issues in TLJ. I don't agree that it's to the extent that you see it, but it's certainly not perfect. But it's taken the brunt of its criticism for the broad stroke creative choices, and that's really what I'm talking about. I'm pushing back on the notion that those choices ruined the saga or the trilogy, as so many have dug their heels in on over the past 2 years.

But look man, can we agree that this is kind of a silly argument to have? Like if we both walk out of TROS loving the film, that's what should matter at the end of the day right? It would be strange to be having arguments like "This is why it's awesome", "No you're wrong, THIS is why it's awesome!", and then just continue arguing about the previous film.

I'm gonna open up for a minute here. I am currently grieving a very difficult loss. I wasn't planning on going knee deep into spoilers for this movie, but honestly at the moment it's become a wonderful distraction and it's one of the things keeping me going during a tough time. I just want to be excited about new Star Wars coming in December. I enjoy this new trilogy, both films. I'm tired of arguing about TLJ, and I think a lot of people are tired of hearing it too. Let's give it a rest and try to see the positive in the situation-- we're both hyped for this thing!

No one has lied about the sequel trilogy. Not even JJ. Which is exactly why no one is allowed to talk about each movie before the movies come out. That is the weird thing about all of this. The only one who says crazy things is Hamill, because he is Hamill and even as he does it, he overtly phases it as a joke.

I like Kathy. But she is also the one who has had to fire multiple directors and thought Rian was a good idea in the first place. She was apart of changing and re-shooting the stories for Solo and Rogue One halfway through production. She is far from infallible, clearly does have some planning issues and there has been no indication of what you speak.

It's not a question of Rian being in the dark. It is that Rian decided what he wanted to do with the character, confirming it and admitting he doesn't know what is going to happen in IX.

I am sorry for your loss, and hope you have the support you need and deserve in a time such as this.

 

[BatLobster]

I mean this is the same series where Leia goes ahead and plants one on an unsuspecting Luke. Straight up grabs him by the head and does it while the dude's sitting in medical recovery. Maybe that's where Kylo gets it from.

I am sorry for your loss, and hope you have the support you need and deserve in a time such as this.

Thank you, Darth, I appreciate that. Luckily, I do have that.

Fair points about Kathy too. She's not infallible, and carrying on the torch of Star Wars is a crazy job for anyone to have to undertake. But I also think she was dealt a tough hand from Bob Iger with that initial release schedule. If there had been more time to develop the trilogy (and maybe if Michael Ardnt didn't take forever to write the initial draft), who knows how things may have played out. That said, as someone who's enjoyed most of the Disney era myself, I think she's doing a good job so far and I'm still willing to give her the benefit of the doubt.

 

[DKDetective]

I'm gonna open up for a minute here. I am currently grieving a very difficult loss. I wasn't planning on going knee deep into spoilers for this movie, but honestly at the moment it's become a wonderful distraction and it's one of the things keeping me going during a tough time. I just want to be excited about new Star Wars coming in December. I enjoy this new trilogy, both films. I'm tired of arguing about TLJ, and I think a lot of people are tired of hearing it too. Let's give it a rest and try to see the positive in the situation-- we're both hyped for this thing!

I'm very sorry to hear that. I went through a very tough loss last year (my Dad to an accident at only 63) and hobbies/pop culture interests are really good comfort and distraction from it all. They help get your mind off things and remember that the world does go on for you, even if it doesn't for that special someone you lost. For me, I took up electric blues guitar to fill the void, which was wonderful therapy. Just be wary that your distraction can become obsessive and excessive, although it is a lot harder to send stupid money on Star Wars merchandise than guitars.

 

[BatLobster]

I'm very sorry to hear that. I went through a very tough loss last year and hobbies/pop culture interests are really good comfort and distraction from it all. They help get your mind off things and remember that the world does go on for you, even if it doesn't for that special someone you lost. For me, I took up electric blues guitar to fill the void, which was wonderful therapy. Just be wary that your distraction can become obsessive and excessive, although it is a lot harder to send stupid money on Star Wars merchandise than guitars.

Thank you for the kind words man, and I'm sorry for your loss as well. Fellow guitarist here! What an awesome and healthy thing that you were able to channel your grief into something so positive. Playing has always been there for me when times are tough. It's been especially poignant for me with the loss of my father (sorry to get too personal) as he got me started playing and we used to jam together.

And yes, Star Wars has long been a great comforting presence in my life. When that D23 trailer hit, it pulled me right out of what I was going through in the moment and I just felt this sense of "everything's gonna be ok", and I think that's kind of the feeling I'm clinging to when it comes to this movie. Regardless of all the noise surrounding SW at the moment and all the sh** going on in the world, I know I'm going into it to escape, take something personal away from the story they're going to tell, and enjoy it with the people closest to me. As I'd imagine we all are.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I'm very sorry to hear that. I went through a very tough loss last year (my Dad to an accident at only 63) and hobbies/pop culture interests are really good comfort and distraction from it all. They help get your mind off things and remember that the world does go on for you, even if it doesn't for that special someone you lost. For me, I took up electric blues guitar to fill the void, which was wonderful therapy. Just be wary that your distraction can become obsessive and excessive, although it is a lot harder to send stupid money on Star Wars merchandise than guitars.

Thank you for the kind words man, and I'm sorry for your loss as well. Fellow guitarist here! What an awesome and healthy thing that you were able to channel your grief into something so positive. Playing has always been there for me when times are tough. It's been especially poignant for me with the loss of my father (sorry to get too personal) as he got me started playing and we used to jam together.

And yes, Star Wars has long been a great comforting presence in my life. When that D23 trailer hit, it pulled me right out of what I was going through in the moment and I just felt this sense of "everything's gonna be ok", and I think that's kind of the feeling I'm clinging to when it comes to this movie. Regardless of all the noise surrounding SW at the moment and all the sh** going on in the world, I know I'm going into it to escape, take something personal away from the story they're going to tell, and enjoy it with the people closest to me. As I'd imagine we all are.

 

[DKDetective]

To tie this back to Star Wars, JJ really better nail the themes of family and parent/child relations in Episode 9. They are a such an important part of the Star Wars mythos and I think fundamentally are what make the stories so resonant and emotionally relatable.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

To tie this back to Star Wars, JJ really better nail the themes of family and parent/child relations in Episode 9. They are a such an important part of the Star Wars mythos and I think fundamentally are what make the stories so resonant and emotionally relatable.

It's funny, because looking at it, it wasn't where it started. And yet whoever came up with the crazy idea that Vader = Father and Leia = Sister, somehow made one of the most enduring aspects of the saga. For whatever faults I might find with the prequels, it is one of the aspects I think works best. Especially with how Palps used it to get Darth Vader.

 

[Slade W]

I am very sorry to hear about your loss @BatLobsterRises

I really hope that you are ok and will get all the support you need, as you are a very pleasant poster.

 

[antsman41]

I need this poster immediately! This has to be one of the most gorgeous posters for the ST.

The patched helmet is so sexy.

 

[Mjolnir Reborn]

I'm gonna open up for a minute here. I am currently grieving a very difficult loss. I wasn't planning on going knee deep into spoilers for this movie, but honestly at the moment it's become a wonderful distraction and it's one of the things keeping me going during a tough time. I just want to be excited about new Star Wars coming in December. I enjoy this new trilogy, both films. I'm tired of arguing about TLJ, and I think a lot of people are tired of hearing it too. Let's give it a rest and try to see the positive in the situation-- we're both hyped for this thing!

Sorry for butting in on the conversation but I just wanted to say that I'm sorry for your loss. Unfortunately I'm pretty experienced in losing family so I know how hard such things can be. I hope the spoilers and ROS itself will turn out awesome for you to lift your spirits a little bit, on top of the support you have around you.

 

[scarlet-witch]

FinnRey is something I hope they never do. (And yes, I like Poe/Finn so of course there's a bit of bias) but I think they make better friends.

Regarding Poe, I like Oscar Isaac, but the more I see of Poe, the more dull he is to me on his own. It's Finn that makes him interesting because they have great chemistry. I'm looking forward to what they do with him in TROS, but for me the real trio is Rey/Finn/Kylo by a long shot.

 

[Gothamsknight]

.

I'm gonna open up for a minute here. I am currently grieving a very difficult loss. I wasn't planning on going knee deep into spoilers for this movie, but honestly at the moment it's become a wonderful distraction and it's one of the things keeping me going during a tough time. I just want to be excited about new Star Wars coming in December. I enjoy this new trilogy, both films. I'm tired of arguing about TLJ, and I think a lot of people are tired of hearing it too. Let's give it a rest and try to see the positive in the situation-- we're both hyped for this thing!

very sorry for your loss, my friend. You know, this trilogy is already starting to feel nostalgic for me. About 7 months after the force awakens was released, I met the love of my life in person, and 2 months after rogue one released, I got engaged to her. I remember walking out of the force awakens so damn satisfied. In fact, the dark Knight and force awakens are my 2 greatest theater experiences ever. Also Spider-Man 2 as well, but in terms of theater and crowds, the dark Knight and force awakens take the cake. And even though I left the theater after TLJ surprised, I still like the movie and look back really fondly on the whole ride to it. Now, heading into TROS, it's similar to how I felt leading up to TFA and I feel a part of my life is ending with this movie. It's gonna be an emotional and very very exciting ride. I'm ready!!

 

[BatLobster]

@Mjolnir Reborn @Gothamsknight @Slade W Thank you kindly, guys.

Folks, I really did not intend to hijack the thread with my personal situation, but I just wanted to say I am taken aback by the response and support. It really warmed my heart. I know I'm a sap, but this is the kind of stuff that reminds you of the good side of fandom in a day and age where it can be a less and less 'warm and fuzzy' place to be. Thank you and May The Force be with you all.

very sorry for your loss, my friend. You know, this trilogy is already starting to feel nostalgic for me. About 7 months after the force awakens was released, I met the love of my life in person, and 2 months after rogue one released, I got engaged to her. I remember walking out of the force awakens so damn satisfied. In fact, the dark Knight and force awakens are my 2 greatest theater experiences ever. Also Spider-Man 2 as well, but in terms of theater and crowds, the dark Knight and force awakens take the cake. And even though I left the theater after TLJ surprised, I still like the movie and look back really fondly on the whole ride to it. Now, heading into TROS, it's similar to how I felt leading up to TFA and I feel a part of my life is ending with this movie. It's gonna be an emotional and very very exciting ride. I'm ready!!

That's great man. Once again, it just goes to show how wrapped up in our lives and life events these things can be. They help us mark time.

TDK was also the best theater experience of my life, bar none. I went on a first date with someone that ended with us seeing a 2AM showing in IMAX (yes 2AM because the midnight was sold out). Fast forward ten years, she's my wife. And she also happens to be my biggest hype partner when it comes to the new Star Wars as nearly all of my friends have become haters of the ST to varying degrees. She loves TFA probably even more than I did at first, but seeing how much joy it brought her only added to my appreciation of it. We both are on the same page about appreciating TLJ the more we've seen it. Although I'm bummed my friends are being sticks in the mud about the new trilogy, it's also kinda nice to share Star Wars as "our special thing" for the moment. It really sucks that it's come to this, but we've pretty much decided we're not gonna do a big group for our first viewing like we've done for the past two films. I just honestly don't want to deal with negative vibes hanging over my first viewing with my friends mocking and hating on it . I'll see it with them eventually, just probably not opening night.

But yeah, I know what you mean about getting nostalgic for this trilogy already. It really feels like it's become like a tradition. Watching Monday Night Football to get the last trailer...then the scramble to get tickets. Then being around family for the holidays and talking about the movie, and seeing it as many times as you can. That part of the whole thing has become a lot of fun. And we're almost there! Not to mention this time we'll have The Mandalorian to watch in November!

 

[Snow Queen]

Second act of the JediPaxis leaks are on Reddit.

Spoiler

In addition, he claims the Force Flash Fight is dead.

 

[Gothamsknight]

Second act of the JediPaxis leaks are on Reddit.

Spoiler

In addition, he claims the Force Flash Fight is dead.

everything else sounds amazing to me, so I'm okay with this . This movies gonna be an emotional rollercoaster. I'm gonna cry, that's for sure and this is just making the wait for December even more unbearable.

 

[VSG]

I've not read it all but I find curious that anybody knew that Palpatine was in the movie but those leakers know now the whole movie, even dialogues.