The Rise of Skywalker General Star Wars Episode IX News/Speculation Thread - Part 1

[Marvolo]

We've debated before whether theres any point to have Rey fight Kylo in a duel again. Personally I think there is plenty of reason especially considering the circumstances of the fight on Starkiller base. But one reason I hope they fight is I'm hoping we might actually get to see two very powerful Force wielders throw down. On this level:

It's one thing the books have done before, but the films have never come close to achieving this sort of power display. Lucas tried to do it in AOTC with Yoda and Dooku but it came off a bit hokey. Yoda used the Force to summon lightning in TLJ, but it was meant to be a bit lighthearted. I'd love to finally see the Force used to bend and wield the elements into weapons and really battle like avatars of Light and Dark rather than just two average Force Weilders swatting at each other with glow sticks. I like lightsaber duels but after 8 films I want more.

 

[Brother Jack]

I think there's a limit to what you can do live action without it coming off as ridiculous. I wouldn't want Dragon Ball Z in my Star Wars. There's also the question of how and why power is used. Luke's force projection is the greatest feat of force power in the series, yet it was completely non-violent in nature. It being so powerful that it killed him solved the problem of why Luke couldn't just do that whenever he wanted, which is always an issue when you introduce huge powers like that.

 

[Marvolo]

Dragon Ball Z is way too over the top too often. Tho displays of great power in moderation wouldn't be approaching that level. These are supposed to be space wizards after all. Not just duelists and levitators and mental manipulators.

And I wouldnt expect Rey to behave the way Luke did. Luke has had decades of experience and years of solo contemplation to arrive at his nonviolent technique. Rey should still be using offense and pushing her limits.

Side note: I'm still not convinced Luke projecting himself actually killed Luke. Rey said he had peace and purpose when he left. I think he deliberately became one with the Force to help the galaxy in some way. Either to become more powerful or to search for other potential Jedi.

 

[TheVileOne]

What is a proper Force power battle supposed to look like? Seems like it's a very vague answer.

 

[Marvolo]

What is a proper Force power battle supposed to look like? Seems like it's a very vague answer.

Actually using the Force in creative and powerful ways during a battle. Much like wizards and druids in fantasy stories use magic in a battle. Tho things like Avatar Last Airbender and Legend of Korra may he more appropriate examples. Harnassing the air, fire, earth, water, lightning, wildlife etc. for offense and defense. Jedi are extremely linked with the nature and world around them. I'd like to see them use it.

 

[I Am The Knight]

Avatar: The Last Forcebender.

 

[Brother Jack]

Side note: I'm still not convinced Luke projecting himself actually killed Luke. Rey said he had peace and purpose when he left. I think he deliberately became one with the Force to help the galaxy in some way. Either to become more powerful or to search for other potential Jedi.

He knew what would happen if he did it. Kylo says during the first force-Skype session with Rey that the strain of doing it herself would kill her. Luke accepted that cost to, as you said, become "more powerful than you can possibly imagine", which we finally got to see with the Yoda scene (after it not really paying off in the OT) and will likely see more of with Luke in IX.

 

[Gothamsknight]

It sucks that i can't even talk about this film with my brother or his friend without them saying "This trilogy has done nothing for me" while praising the prequels as "Bad films but good star wars" at the same time. I, for one, am super pumped for episode IX.

Do you guys think its possible we'll get a title next month?

 

[Spider-Fan]

I loved TLJ but was luke warm to TFA. TFA for me is a fine movie, but it's just that. I think the main reason I am less excited for Ep IX than I was TLJ is JJ Abrams. I think he is a very overrated director and he has yet to make a film that wowed me. But, here is his chance. I am going to see this regardless.

The PT is just awful on every level, though.

 

[Gothamsknight]

I loved both force awakens and TLJ, but for me Force Awakens was the better movie. It's one of the reasons i'm so damn excited for IX and i think that JJ is gonna do stuff that a lot of people aren't expecting. Besides, I think TLJ put him in a corner where he has no choice but to do something people aren't expecting.

I liked the prequels, but they are heavily flawed, and attack of the clones is just not good. easily the worst of the franchise by far, in my opinion. It's just weird to me how people can honestly think those are better movies than what we have been getting. TLj was definitely not perfect, but i still think it's one of the best star wars films. It's also weird to hear simon pegg say 'it's missing the lucas touch" when he bashed the prequels to no end. Its things like this that mad me step away from star wars since TLJ came out on blu ray, but with december approaching an 2019 on the horizon, my hype for IX is growing as it draws closer. it just sucks that the people i want to talk to about it don't really care and claim "star wars is dead' just because The Last Jedi wasn't what they were expecting.

 

[Spider-Fan]

TLJ was divisive to be sure. But I was happy with its risks. TFA just didn't do much for me. I liked the new characters (except Snoke), but it was just too similar to ANH for me. I just didn't find it all that creative. JJ Abrams makes technically well made movies, but I always find something missing in regards to the story and the narrative. The closest he came to wowing me was Star Trek Into Darkness, but he so badly botched the last like 20-30 mins, it is astounding. At this point, I just think JJ isn't my guy.

 

[Aximili86]

As for the Luke thing, I do think he's *physically* dead. But that doesn't mean much, as we've seen. Definitely get the sense he'll be back as more than your garden variety force-ghost, it'll be something new & up-and-above that, methinks.

 

[TheVileOne]

Actually using the Force in creative and powerful ways during a battle. Much like wizards and druids in fantasy stories use magic in a battle. Tho things like Avatar Last Airbender and Legend of Korra may he more appropriate examples. Harnassing the air, fire, earth, water, lightning, wildlife etc. for offense and defense. Jedi are extremely linked with the nature and world around them. I'd like to see them use it.

I'm not sure I want to see Jedis bending rock and earth like Toph and water like Katarra.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

TLJ was divisive to be sure. But I was happy with its risks. TFA just didn't do much for me. I liked the new characters (except Snoke), but it was just too similar to ANH for me. I just didn't find it all that creative. JJ Abrams makes technically well made movies, but I always find something missing in regards to the story and the narrative. The closest he came to wowing me was Star Trek Into Darkness, but he so badly botched the last like 20-30 mins, it is astounding. At this point, I just think JJ isn't my guy.

See it's funny, but before TFA, I felt EXACTLY the same about Abrams. I always thought he was a good director, but hadn't made an amazing movie for me yet. Despite the similarities to ANH though, I loved TFA, and it set up so much I was curious to see what happened next. But for TLJ dropped the ball on pretty much all of that. I have given TLJ every chance, saw it twice at the cinema, bought the 4K home release, but each time I watch it, I dislike it more and more, and haven't watched it for months now. And I am someone who loved Looper and was excited for Johnson.

Personally I am so glad Abrams is back, as at the very least the movie will be good, and I have confidence he can correct many of the things I found TLJ did wrong. However, Johnson killing Luke is still something that irks me greatly.

 

[Spider-Fan]

See it's funny, but before TFA, I felt EXACTLY the same about Abrams. I always thought he was a good director, but hadn't made an amazing movie for me yet. Despite the similarities to ANH though, I loved TFA, and it set up so much I was curious to see what happened next. But for TLJ dropped the ball on pretty much all of that. I have given TLJ every chance, saw it twice at the cinema, bought the 4K home release, but each time I watch it, I dislike it more and more, and haven't watched it for months now. And I am someone who loved Looper and was excited for Johnson.

Personally I am so glad Abrams is back, as at the very least the movie will be good, and I have confidence he can correct many of the things I found TLJ did wrong. However, Johnson killing Luke is still something that irks me greatly.

TFA did nothing to change my mind about Abrams. It was actually fairly standard Abrams. The movie is entertaining and all, it just isn't special to me.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

TFA did nothing to change my mind about Abrams. It was actually fairly standard Abrams. The movie is entertaining and all, it just isn't special to me.

Agree to disagree, it was the movie which made me more of an Abrams fan than previously.

 

[Gothamsknight]

For me, The Force Awakens brought the magic of star wars back while at the same time introducing some of my fave characters in film today (Rey, Kylo, finn, etc). I think The Force Awaken payed homage to the original trilogy while introducing us to new characters, and in my mind Abrams did it so well it ended up being my 3rd fave star wars film ever and sometimes even my 2nd! I love that film to no end, and it's also one of the greatest theater experiences i have ever had right behind The Dark Knight.

I also still really like The Last jedi, even though it's not perfect. I wouldn't have killed luke so soon, and I would have had the 3rd act focus more on Rey since she is the lead protagonist now. The Last Jedi is a movie that does it's own thing and does it well for the most part, but at the same time also does a few things i dont 110% agree with. I think The Last Jedi is a solid sequel, and one of the best star wars films, just not as good as The Force Awakens. As I said, its one of the reasons I'm so damn excited for Abrams return, and the fact that he aims to do better than the force awakens has me even more excited.

I'm in the same boat about Force Awakens making me even more of a fan of abrams. I liked him before, and loved him even more after he brought star wars back

 

[Spider-Fan]

In regards to SW Saga rankings, I rate them:

TESB - 5/5
ROTJ - 5/5
ANH - 5/5
TLJ - 4.5/5
TFA - 3.5/5
ROTS - 2/5
AOTC - 1.5/5
TPM - 1.5/5

So I would put TFA in the middle. I would agree, it brought Star Wars back in a way and it had likeable characters. But the over reliance on ANH plot points bothered me. Especially on rewatches. I was less bothered the 1st time I saw it, as I finally got a SW movie that didn't suck for the first time in ages. But it really does rely too heavily on familiar plot points. It's a major negative to me. TLJ does it also, but I do think it did original things with the plot points it mirrors and uses. Though I can see why the movie was off-putting to many, it worked for me a lot better.

 

[Gothamsknight]

I'll chime in with my ranking of the saga films.

Empire Strikes Back - 10/10
A New Hope - 10/10
The Force Awakens - 9.8/10
Return of the jedi - 9.5/10
The Last jedi - 8.9/10
Revenge of the Sith - 8/10 (the film has lots of issues, but its very entertaining for me)
The Phantom Menace - 7/10
Attack of the clones - 6/10

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Something I always feel people sell Abrams short on is his casting and just character work. No matter how much I like one of his films, I always love his characters. TFA was a situation where I loved everything.

We can talk the "risk" of TLJ, but that to me is like crediting Snyder for being risky". TLJ has storytelling and character problems. Not even talking Luke here, but characters like Rey, Poe and Finn. It is also a movie that clearly got cutdown, probably in the script phase. Like they had to cut down Rey and Luke, to make room for Finn, Poe and Rose, who don't really do much in the movie. Nothing of importance at least. Because of this it is very poorly paced and missing very important stuff. Like a relationship between Luke and Rey that isn't just surfaced based. Something that would have at least tied her into the final act, where somehow the main character of the movie and trilogy is completely on the peripherally. If she was locked in emotionally to losing Luke, this new potential father figure like Han, that would mean something. They ask the interesting questions, like what if Luke doesn't have all the answers and how would Rey react to someone who isn't instantly inviting to her. But they don't actually explore it. Instead she is just pushed off to the side. And then there is bizarrely lazing things like the Death Star tech and no actual battle of Crait. Which even the game showed the potential of. Actually I could go on forever with TLJ, both in terms of what I like and don't, but to me it is the most disappointing movie in the series. And that does include the prequels for me. TFA is an all time first step.

 

[Gothamsknight]

^^ well said! This took the words out of my mouth. While i think TLJ is better than the prequels, i also feel very dissapointed when i place it next to The Force Awakens, which i find to be a much better movie

 

[henzINNIT]

Last Jedi watches like it was made by an old-school OT fan to me, particularly in the way the force is much more strange and magical. This appears to be a point of contention among fans who are steeped in the lore and EU, where more rules have been established I suppose. Personally I really dug it. There are story problems though, wish the script had one last "logic" draft.

JJ's character work was tremendous in TFA. He made a bunch of new characters household names over the course of one movie. Looking forward to seeing what 9 will bring.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I hope JJ manages to surprise me. Really I do. I want Episode IX to at least be better than I thought TFA was. I want everyone to love it. Me included.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

As to ranking the saga films:

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[Gothamsknight]

i really hope we get a title reveal next month! Even though we dont have a star wars film this december, we are also a year away from the movie and as i said, the hype train is gonna start soon. Im ready!!!!!