"Growing Pains" Season 2: Episode 19 Discussion Thread

[Duskbyday]

If I didn't know the episode descriptions I would have been so shocked about the ending.

 

[Spiderine]

That was an entertaining episode, wasn't one of the best, but still good. I actually enjoyed the subplot of Colonel Jupiter because we all know the real showdown between Venom and Spidey will be next episode. I give it an 8. Great buildup of Jameson's hatred of Spiderman. If he is gonna participate in creating Scorpion he better have a damn good reason.


Interesting subplot with the school play. Anyone thinks it will have something to do with the titles of the last three episodes, "Subtext", "Opening Night", and "Final Curtain".

 

[stillanerd]

^^^
Good guess.

Weisman's a huge Shakespeare fan, he didn't just use references in Gargoyles he used the actual characters and plotlines for characters. In MacBeth's case he used a combo of real life history and Shakespeare's play (which was NOT historically accurate).

Exactly. And yes, that's good distinction--having the actual characters from Shakespeare's plays as part of the show is much more than a reference.

LOL...Wow, you actually remember which lines were said by the characters? That's cool.

Not to mention which plays the lines came from and which characters in the play said them, too (although I might have to look a couple of them up).

I disagree there; clearly, Harry wants to please his dad, but there's been nothing to indicate that he doesn't have a genuine interest in Gwen (the reasons he articulated last episode make plenty of sense).

I think Harry genuinly likes Gwen, he isn't using her. It's just that gaining his dad's approval is above all else, which is why he ignores her at the cast list part.

Both you make a pretty good point, as I forgot about what Harry told Gwen last time about her looking after him when he was taking the Globlun Green. So you're right he does have feelings for her (in fact, I'd argue that he had feelings for her in the comics as well and every relationship Harry has had was basically a proxy of Gwen). However, as you, Shocker, also point out, his father's approval is far more important to him as evidenced by that scene. So in that sense, Gwen, just like getting the part of Puck, just like last season when he was on the football team and got good grades, is a trophy to show his father, even though he does have feelings for her as well.

 

[whiplash]

Loved the Episode. Very original idea to introduce each "scene" with a monologue. It kinda setup the entire story with an underlaying backtone ya know it's like it would be in the script. here's a list of quotations and who said them. i don't know where they are from cause i'm not a shakespearian scholar.



"by the pricking of my thumbs, something wicked this way comes" - Glory Grant

"presume not that I am the thing I was, for I have turned away my former self" - Harry Osborn

"Reputation, Reputation, Reputation. Oh I have lost my reputation, I have lost the immoratal part of myself, and what remains is beastial" - Kenny Kong

"Why shoes thou sugar on that bottled spider, who's deadly web ensareth thee about, fool, fool the day will come to curse this venomous bunch bagged toad" - Sha Shan

"A villian, villian, smiley cursed villian, at one might smile and smile and be a villian. GO VILLIAN" - Sally

"Doubt thou the stars are fire, doubt doth the son doth move, doubt truth to be a liar, but never doubt my love" - Mary Jane

Hobie gets on stage but doesn't get the chance to speak due to Flash interupting

"Oh it is excellent to have a giant's strength but it is tyrannous to use it like a giant" - Liz Allen

"I will be brief, your noble son is mad, mad, call i it. for to define true madess what is to be nothing else but mad" - Flash Thompson

 

[November Rain]

The spiderman aspects of this are still probably the weakest

i just don't get this venom, he wants to make frame parker but does it wearing a 'black costume' when we know the suit can morph.

not a fan of col jupiter but i guess you can see it leading to manwolf.

again the school parts outshined the spidey parts.

Venom's return was somewhat underrated. I've always seen venom as being one of those character spidey doesn't joke around with and always takes seriously.

as for spidey's spider sense, it would seem those school hallways are far more dangerous than any supervillain. It's the only place it keeps going off at.

 

[varsas]

as for spidey's spider sense, it would seem those school hallways are far more dangerous than any supervillain. It's the only place it keeps going off at.

When has it not gone off when he's been blindsided either as Spidey or Peter?

 

[The Joker]

The spiderman aspects of this are still probably the weakest

i just don't get this venom, he wants to make frame parker but does it wearing a 'black costume' when we know the suit can morph.

not a fan of col jupiter but i guess you can see it leading to manwolf.

again the school parts outshined the spidey parts.

Venom's return was somewhat underrated. I've always seen venom as being one of those character spidey doesn't joke around with and always takes seriously.

as for spidey's spider sense, it would seem those school hallways are far more dangerous than any supervillain. It's the only place it keeps going off at.

Wow, a rare occasion where I agree 100% with you, Odin

 

[November Rain]

When has it not gone off when he's been blindsided either as Spidey or Peter?

probably quite a few times.

just look at the last episode with the sinister six or their first encounter in group theraphy.

I would point on specifics but it actually doesn't bother me that much, i'm just commentating on how dangerous that hallway is.

 

[November Rain]

Wow, a rare occasion where I agree 100% with you, Odin

ha, i actually saw you had replied straight after me in my cp and thought

'oh god, joker's gone all defensive again...'



i took this post as a complete shock...

i guess we'll always have spidey 2 to disagree over. When i'm rich and famous, you'll have to clear out a weekend in your schedule to watch it together. Get dread there as a mediator, we can overanalyse the pants off of it, it'd be great.

 

[The Joker]

ha, i actually saw you had replied straight after me in my cp and thought

'oh god, joker's gone all defensive again...'



i took this post as a complete shock...

i guess we'll always have spidey 2 to disagree over. When i'm rich and famous, you'll have to clear out a weekend in your schedule to watch it together. Get dread there as a mediator, we can overanalyse the pants off of it, it'd be great.

LOL! You got a deal on one condition: We watch Armed and Dangerous afterwards

 

[November Rain]

i'll have to to get spidey 2 off the brain...

 

[Anwar]

Geez, that's right. Why didn't Brock just morph into the red and blue costume first? Or did he realize that his physical frame is just too different from Peter's and if he used the black costume and did stuff at night it would be easier to confuse the two?

I always took Harry's Play line to be about himself more than anything else.

 

[The Joker]

Geez, that's right. Why didn't Brock just morph into the red and blue costume first? Or did he realize that his physical frame is just too different from Peter's and if he used the black costume and did stuff at night it would be easier to confuse the two?

I always took Harry's Play line to be about himself more than anything else.

Captain Stacy noticed the difference just by looking at some footage.

I liked that. I love how Captain Stacy is getting more prominent roles in these episodes. He's not just there to appease the fans like in Spider-Man 3.

 

[November Rain]

The stupid thing is that the truck driver couldn't tell that it was two different costumed heroes he was dealing with

neither could colonel jupiter.

 

[SpideyTheBest]

Well, John Jameson said something like this to Spidey:
"You can't trick me by switching costumes."

 

[November Rain]

they'll probably say he had a mad stan moment

he fell very mad stan-esque...

 

[varsas]

probably quite a few times.

just look at the last episode with the sinister six or their first encounter in group theraphy.

I would point on specifics but it actually doesn't bother me that much, i'm just commentating on how dangerous that hallway is.

Nope, I don't remember a single incident where it hasn't reacted as it should given the parameters for the series. I think I've had this conversation before in one of the other threads about the spidey sense.

The stupid thing is that the truck driver couldn't tell that it was two different costumed heroes he was dealing with

neither could colonel jupiter.

Given that there aren't many super hero characters I'm not sure the driver would expect more than one to be like Spidey especially since not many people saw Venom last time.

I think the reaction from Jameson was partly due to the spores as he starts to lose control.

 

[Syncos]

The spiderman aspects of this are still probably the weakest

i just don't get this venom, he wants to make frame parker but does it wearing a 'black costume' when we know the suit can morph.

not a fan of col jupiter but i guess you can see it leading to manwolf.

again the school parts outshined the spidey parts.

Venom's return was somewhat underrated. I've always seen venom as being one of those character spidey doesn't joke around with and always takes seriously.

as for spidey's spider sense, it would seem those school hallways are far more dangerous than any supervillain. It's the only place it keeps going off at.

Given the knowledge provided by the show alone, and not the comics, when has the symbiote ever morphed into something that's not black and white? When peter was wearing the symbiote his clothes were black, and the second the symbiote took over his costume it changed to black...

As for Venom, I don't remember Peter not taking him seriously in this episode. He antagonized him with quips, but that's kinda what Pete does. He just got his ass handed by Venom, then eddie ran off.

 

[Anwar]

The symbiote morphed into Peter's usual outfit in "Persona" when he went home, right before Aunt May collapsed.

 

[Duskbyday]

I disagree there; clearly, Harry wants to please his dad, but there's been nothing to indicate that he doesn't have a genuine interest in Gwen (the reasons he articulated last episode make plenty of sense).

Good episode, apart from the jarring introduction of the Jameson stuff after the teaser; I almost thought I'd missed a segment during the commercial break there.

I should have been more clear or used better description (whoops) I know he fancies her and has feelings for her, but he does really want his Dad to notice him. Now that he is, he feels wanted. Saying he had a girlfriend to his dad must have peeved her off a bit. He didn't mean to annoy her, he just wanted his dad's attention which he got.

 

[AIRWOLF]

The symbiote morphed into Peter's usual outfit in "Persona" when he went home, right before Aunt May collapsed.

Peter had been wearing his usual clothes underneath the symbiote suit from the beginning, and if you look carefully, the alien is merely retracting into his clothes and not morphing, morphing would have completely different transitional animation.

And by the way, what's with so much nit-picking whenever it involves anything "VENOM", why he didn't do this, why didn't that happened. Take it for what it is and enjoy it. Don't see this much nit-picking with other villains . So what if he didn't change to regular red and blue, maybe black looks evil, like it matters.

 

[Anwar]

I think the reason he didn't change the suit was because the actual physical frames of Peter vs Eddie are too different and the suit can't hide that. That's also why he does most of what he does at night: The black makes it easier for people not to get a closer look at him. The webbing and wall crawling are enough to fool them.

 

[Ratcrawler]

It's kind of weird since last time Venom fought sPidey it was in front of a crowd of hudreds at A PARADE! Where everybody brings cameras. So for the public to not know that there was another, bulkier web-slinging wall-crawler in a black suit who fought sPider-Man about two months ago seems like kind of a big hole in continuity.

I'm guessing Dr. Jackal there will be instrumental in changing John into Man-Wolf somehow. And possibly any other animal-themed villains.

 

[AIRWOLF]

It's kind of weird since last time Venom fought sPidey it was in front of a crowd of hudreds at A PARADE! Where everybody brings cameras. So for the public to not know that there was another, bulkier web-slinging wall-crawler in a black suit who fought sPider-Man about two months ago seems like kind of a big hole in continuity.

I'm guessing Dr. Jackal there will be instrumental in changing John into Man-Wolf somehow. And possibly any other animal-themed villains.

People saw Venom, his looks were completely different than your usual Black Costumed Spidey. And Venom in this episode was trying to mimic Spider-Man's black costume, and as Anwar stated, he preferred to do this at night so people don't notice he is bulky or at least not easily noticeable. Furthermore, not everyone has a keen eye for detail, so its understandable that they can't put two and two together, we're just getting general perceptions of the citizens.

 

[stillanerd]

Loved the Episode. Very original idea to introduce each "scene" with a monologue. It kinda setup the entire story with an underlaying backtone ya know it's like it would be in the script. here's a list of quotations and who said them. i don't know where they are from cause i'm not a shakespearian scholar.

Well, I can help out

"by the pricking of my thumbs, something wicked this way comes" - Glory Grant

From Macbeth, Act IV, scene 1. Spoken by the Second Witch when Macbeth approaches.

"Presume not that I am the thing I was, for I have turned away my former self" - Harry Osborn

Henry IV, part 2. Act V, scene 5. Spoken by Henry V (formerly Prince Henry, a.k.a. Prince Harry, or Hal) to Falstaff. And the actual quote from the play is:

"Presume not that I am the thing I was;
For God doth know, so shall the world perceive,
That I have turned away my former self;
So I will those that kept me company."

"Reputation, Reputation, Reputation. Oh I have lost my reputation, I have lost the immortal part of myself, and what remains is bestial" - Kenny Kong

From Othello, Act 2, scene 3. Spoken by Cassio to Iago.

"Why shoes thou sugar on that bottled spider, who's deadly web ensareth thee about, fool, fool the day will come to curse this venomous bunch bagged toad" - Sha Shan

From Richard III, Act 1, scene 3. Spoken by Queen Margaret to Queen Elizabeth. The actual quote from the play is:

"Poor painted queen, vain flourish of my
fortune!
Why strew'st thou sugar on that bottled spider
Whose deadly web ensnareth thee about?
Fool, fool! thou whet'st a knife to kill thyself.
The day will come that thou shalt wish for me
To help thee curse this poisonous bunch-back'd toad."

"A villian, villian, smiley cursed villian, at one might smile and smile and be a villian. GO VILLIAN" - Sally

From Hamlet, Act I, scene V. Spoken by Hamlet. The actual lines from the play are:

"O villain, villain, smiling, damned villain!
My tables! Meet it is I set it down,
That one may smile, and smile, and be a villain;
At least I'm sure it may be so in Denmark."

"Doubt thou the stars are fire, doubt doth the sun doth move, doubt truth to be a liar, but never doubt my love" - Mary Jane

From Hamlet, Act II, scene 2. Spoken by Polonius, reading a love letter from Hamlet to Polonius' daughter, Ophelia, to Claudius and Gertrude, King and Queen of Denmark.

"Oh it is excellent to have a giant's strength but it is tyrannous to use it like a giant" - Liz Allen

From Measure for Measure, Act II, scene 2. Spoken by Isabella to Angelo.

"I will be brief, your noble son is mad, mad, call I it. for to define true madness what is to be nothing else but mad" - Flash Thompson

From Hamlet, Act II, scene 2. Spoken by Polonius to Claudius and Gertrude, King and Queen of Denmark.

Also, in the taxi cab, J. Jonah Jameson utters the line "O, what a tangled web we weave," from the lines:

"Oh what a tangled web we weave,
When first we practise to deceive!"

Which people often mistakenly attribute to William Shakespeare, when it reality it's from the poem, "Marmion," by Sir Walter Scott. (Which is quite fitting for Jameson since he frequently gets things wrong).

You may now call me a "show off," now.