Guillermo Del Toro to direct "Crimson Peak" (or not, you never know...)

[Marvolo]

And yet even Curon refused to return to the franchise. That might not have been a machine he wanted to jump into.

Cuaron refused to return because of the quick turn-around between the harry potter films and because of the size of GOF. He would have had to begin pre-production on GOF while he was finishing post-production on POA. And he wasnt sure GOF could work as a single film and at the time WB wasnt sure they wanted to offer a director the choice of doing a 2 part adaption of the book. So Cuaron decided to just do POA and let someone else tackle the beast that was GOF.

And GDT turned down POA because of Hellboy. He apparently turned down HBP for Hellboy 2.

 

[Lord]

And yet even Curon refused to return to the franchise. That might not have been a machine he wanted to jump into.

Cuaron had other projects he wanted to pursue, and from the long nap he's taking after Gravity, it's clear he's the kind of filmmakers who likes a long time between projects. He has never talked negatively about the experience and usualy says that he only didn't return due to other projects. Also, Harry Potter might have been a difficult beast to be on board with, but he took on The Hobbit, which was an even bigger one, and at the time he wasn't even sure it was going to happen.

Del Toro was offered plenty of chances to play with big franchises and gain some more credit, he kept on refusing them, even though they were suited for him.

 

[dude stannis]

I just want to clarify, just because I'm criticising Del Toro's ego, or personal misconceptions, or whatever, doesn't mean I'm some kind of fickle elitist fairweather fan. Absolutely not. Pacific Rim didn't jibe with me, so that doesn't mean all of a sudden he's a hack that's only popular because of his fanboys. That line of thinking is childish and idiotic.

 

[redhawk23]

The thing with Del Toro is you look at films like Pan's Labyrinth, The Devil's Backbone, and Cronos, and you know what he is capable of. He is capable of delivering masterpieces.

I am honestly very curious just how much free reign Del Toro's been given with his Hollywood endeavors. There's a very clear difference between his independent Spanish films and his Hollywood English films. That simply cannot be chalked up to just a language translation.

He's working in a big studio system where, until you prove yourself as a money-making director, the studios calls the shots. You want an R-rated film? Make it PG-13 or we won't finance it. Here, direct this garbage script by Kurtzman. And with how Crimson Peak is performing, it's only going to get worse. He's at a point now where he has almost zero leverage when it comes to complete creative control.

I would genuinely like to see him back in the independent circuit, at least until he rebounds. Focus of smaller budget films that allow you to flex your creative muscles without having to accommodate executive mandates.

Am I wrong to think that's not necessarily a bad thing? Many of the best scenes and the best entire films came about from the ingenuity needed to work within constraints. Also, as much as we like to complain about the corporate suits and what have you many of them do indeed know how to make very watchable and popular films. Its the difference between young George Lucas surrounded by people to help him and give him feedback and 2005 George Lucas with a his personal empire and yes men like Rich McCallum throwing rose petals and $100 bills at his feet.

Guillermo del Toro may make better films with Thomas Tull giving him whatever he wants.

 

[batman1]

Loved the movie

 

[Marvolo]

Am I wrong to think that's not necessarily a bad thing? Many of the best scenes and the best entire films came about from the ingenuity needed to work within constraints. Also, as much as we like to complain about the corporate suits and what have you many of them do indeed know how to make very watchable and popular films. Its the difference between young George Lucas surrounded by people to help him and give him feedback and 2005 George Lucas with a his personal empire and yes men like Rich McCallum throwing rose petals and $100 bills at his feet.

Guillermo del Toro may make better films with Thomas Tull giving him whatever he wants.

Young Lucas wasnt being told what to do by corporate suits. Well he was when he was making SW77, but he didnt listen too well. During production of star wars 77 he pretty much gave all the studio norms and rules of the time the finger (he even quit some of the guilds over some things like the credits) and he independently produced ESB and ROTJ ensuring that no guilds or corporate suits could strong arm him. So he had as much power then as he did on the PT films. His biggest restraint was money and resources. Plus there is that fact that Lucas was not around or involved for most of ESB's production. Thats a huge contributing factor in its quality. The other contributing factor was Kershner. He didnt have to worry much about Lucas or any corporate suit so him and the crew werent being stifled.

Its definitely good when a director has a strong support group, but corporate suits that care only about profit margins and bottom lines can seriously screw up a film's production.

 

[TeeKay]

I'm just going to say it, I'm going to be blunt about it.

Del Toro might be a good filmmaker but despite what fanboys believe he is not hollywood royalty. Virtually all of his films under perform expectations, he has never directed a big hit and that wouldn't matter if he weren't doing these genre films that are expected to perform but he is. Del Toro asking for 120mil for Hellboy 3 is a joke, Del toro asking for 200 mil for At the Mountains of Madness is an even bigger joke. The studios would be idiots to give him big budgets because he has not proven that he will make them a lot of money, not even once really. He's not Christopher Nolan and he shouldn't be treated as such. Fans who whine about the studios not just handing him 200 million for his low grossing weird tentacled monster movies are being ridiculous. He only has one barely over 100mil grossing film here in the states and he should be handed the keys to the kingdom? No, that isn't going to happen.

I am prepared to eat my hat if Pacific Rim 2 actually happens.

Well said. Like someone else pointed out, play the game and you'll reap the rewards in the future. Its just how it is. Don't try and be another Josh Trank. I love GDT though but I'm so amazed that he turner down all those films. Like damn. Even if he wouldn't been given full creative control on those films, they'd have helped his career.

 

[Black Narcissus]

No one tape this?

Guillermo del ToroVerified account
‏@RealGDT
In NYC on my way to public chat with Chris Nolan on CRIMSON PEAK. I want to send all my love to all that showed up to see it this weekend!!

 

[Lord]

Young Lucas wasnt being told what to do by corporate suits. Well he was when he was making SW77, but he didnt listen too well. During production of star wars 77 he pretty much gave all the studio norms and rules of the time the finger (he even quit some of the guilds over some things like the credits) and he independently produced ESB and ROTJ ensuring that no guilds or corporate suits could strong arm him. So he had as much power then as he did on the PT films. His biggest restraint was money and resources. Plus there is that fact that Lucas was not around or involved for most of ESB's production. Thats a huge contributing factor in its quality. The other contributing factor was Kershner. He didnt have to worry much about Lucas or any corporate suit so him and the crew werent being stifled.

Its definitely good when a director has a strong support group, but corporate suits that care only about profit margins and bottom lines can seriously screw up a film's production.

There was also Marcia Lucas, she was one of the few people who could actualy argue with George and convince him to change acertain element. she was also one of the people most heavily involved with the edits and assembling the film, while she didn't do this alone, she had a reputation for bringing more soul into her edits.

Kasdan was also a factor, though he's sometimes seen as having been more important for the franchise's success than he actualy was, as aparently he was difficult to work with and was giving George and Marcia some problems.

That said, Star Wars's contraints did lead to it being a better film, but Lucas back then was a different film Director, maybe with more freedom he would have done better, who knows. When it comes to Guillermo Del Toro, i'm not sure studio executives have helped his films, it seems like they were one of the factors leading into Mimic becoming a mess, and some of the worst bits in Hellboy 1 seemed like direct studio mandates.

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

I liked Hellboy way more than it's sequel, which I hated, so bring on the studio mandates. I wish he would have had more mandates when it came to Pacific Rim as well.

 

[dude stannis]

Pacific Rim is a very, very studio movie. No ****ing way that was a full GDT movie.

 

[Lord]

Pacific Rim was way too self aware to be that studio mandated, from the exagerated battles to the ending speech, it all seemed like Del Toro's tribute to blockbuster films. That said, had he been given 100% control over the film, Mako Mori would probably have been the lead, which wouldn't have been a bad thing imao.

I liked Hellboy way more than it's sequel, which I hated, so bring on the studio mandates. I wish he would have had more mandates when it came to Pacific Rim as well.

Wait, you liked that generic guy who was just there for a pointless romantic triangle and who was completely generic and forgetable?

I don't remember much from that first film, Hellboy II left a bigger mark on me because i felt like Del Toro was truly able to showcase some of the unique visuals he loves, with a perfect adaptation of how a fairy tale world would look like nowadays if it was hidden. There were some problems there too, but i felt like it was a much stronger and itneresting film overall.

 

[dude stannis]

Pacific Rim was way too self aware to be that studio mandated, from the exagerated battles to the ending speech, it all seemed like Del Toro's tribute to blockbuster films. That said, had he been given 100% control over the film, Mako Mori would probably have been the lead, which wouldn't have been a bad thing imao.

Marvel have become the poster childs for studio mandated product and they have tons of self awareness. Del Toro jumped onto Pacfic Rim because Hobbit and Mountains of Madness fell through and it was available for him. It most certainly was a studio mercenary job for him.

 

[Lord]

It was a different kind of self-awareness, and WB's a much different studio than Marvel, there's a reason WB is making their DC film so serious. To be honest, most of the humor in Pacific Rim felt very "Del Toroesque".

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

Everything about Pacific Rim screams Del Toro. I have no idea where you got that studio movie stuff from.

Pacific Rim was more Legendary's baby than it was Warner Brothers.

 

[Snow Queen]

I enjoyed Pacific Rim alright, but man it should not have been about Hunnam's character. He was just so flat and not at all engaging.

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

Hunnam was a freaking disaster performance wise. I continue to maintain that opinion.

Anyway, like Pacific Rim or like me, hate it but Del Toro deserves the credit or blame for the film.

 

[dude stannis]

None of the creatures are sympathetic and there's no tragedy in their destruction. Ron Perlman, the most sinister human in the film is more comedy relief than antagonist which is opposed to his 'man is crueler than the fantastique' themes. It has none of his religious imagery/symbolism and it doesn't deal with the associated guilt of that. It's very much GDT making a studio picture.

 

[redhawk23]

Well said. Like someone else pointed out, play the game and you'll reap the rewards in the future. Its just how it is. Don't try and be another Josh Trank. I love GDT though but I'm so amazed that he turner down all those films. Like damn. Even if he wouldn't been given full creative control on those films, they'd have helped his career.

But would it have been something he cared to devote years of his life to?

 

[redhawk23]

None of the creatures are sympathetic and there's no tragedy in their destruction. Ron Perlman, the most sinister human in the film is more comedy relief than antagonist which is opposed to his 'man is crueler than the fantastique' themes. It has none of his religious imagery/symbolism and it doesn't deal with the associated guilt of that. It's very much GDT making a studio picture.

Pacific Rim is in many ways Independence Day.

Seeing a Del Toro movie from a perspective not on the side of the monsters or at least a monster definitely was weird I have to say. Compare anything in Pacific Rim with the scene with the plant elemental.

Del Toro breaking away from a lot of his usual tropes though is really just a matter of working in a different genre and telling a different story. That said he manages to work in some bizarrely personal quirks. The whole thing with the baby Oachi being born with the umbilical wrapped around its neck was a direct reference to GDT's own birth for instance.

Mako's childhood flashback and her enounter with the kaiju Onibaba is in my opinion one of the absolute best kaiju scenes ever made. It is one of the few times that I've seen giant monster destruction presented in a way that shows how truly frightening that would be to witness. The young orphan Mako left wandering through Tokyo is indeed tragic. The tragedy is overcome by a shining knight by way of Idris Elba.

Also you may want to re watch the climax of the film if you don't think any religious imagery made it through.

 

[redhawk23]

Pacific Rim is a very, very studio movie. No ****ing way that was a full GDT movie.

Its less a studio movie and more of a Travis Beacham movie. What it comes down to is that the original plan was for GDT to guide the design work and shepard the production but it was always going to be handed off. As other projects collapsed though it became most ready opportunity to get back to making movies after being shanghaied in New Zealand for several years.

 

[Matt Mortem]

After seeing this I think Del Toro probably could have gotten a PG-13 for box office's sake. Not sure how another box office debacle will affect Del Toro's career. He's still yet to have that huge win that so many of the other big budgeted directors have.

 

[Black Narcissus]

Well, his next film will be a low budget film. I do believe he will get more love with that one. There was a rumor of the girl from Pan's being in it as well. Hmmm.

 

[Serpico Jones]

Pacific Rim was way too self aware to be that studio mandated, from the exagerated battles to the ending speech, it all seemed like Del Toro's tribute to blockbuster films. That said, had he been given 100% control over the film, Mako Mori would probably have been the lead, which wouldn't have been a bad thing imao.



Wait, you liked that generic guy who was just there for a pointless romantic triangle and who was completely generic and forgetable?

I don't remember much from that first film, Hellboy II left a bigger mark on me because i felt like Del Toro was truly able to showcase some of the unique visuals he loves, with a perfect adaptation of how a fairy tale world would look like nowadays if it was hidden. There were some problems there too, but i felt like it was a much stronger and itneresting film overall.

The dialogue in Hellboy 2 was too juvenile and the tone was too goofy and melodramatic. The troll market sequence was a Star Wars cantina ripoff and the final scene felt like it was written by someone in pre-school. It's a shame because I too love the first movie, the second film is a melodramatic and goofy mess. Let's also not forget the scene with HB and Abe singing Barry Manilow like a bunch of morons.

 

[Serpico Jones]

The cast commentary on the first Hellboy DVD is also my personal favorite audio commentary track of all time. It's absolutely hilarious.